Why have Latics got a club chaplain?

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

What points? The ones that have been more than adequately taken apart by other posters?

 

The main point I made, which you have yet to address, was that a chaplain is not uniquely qualified to offer councelling services.

 

You claimed that he was uniquely qualified because it was in his job description. This was a complete non sequitor.

 

I pointed this out to you, but you decided that instead of answering my point that you would correct my spelling.

Edited May 26, 2010 by PhilStarbucksSilkySkills

[garcon]

Actually I would disagree with Singe's point.

 

As a member of the clergy, the chaplain most certainly is trained as a counsellor and in his role as chaplain I would suggest that is predominantly the service he offers.

 

From that point of view, he probably could have the title 'Counsellor' instead. I suspect the fact that this role is filled by a member of the clergy and holds the title of chaplain is, largely, traditional seeing as the elements of his role that would have been directly linked to the church have, I imagine, largely passed by the wayside.

 

Whether it's at a football club or in the army, the role and duty of a chaplain is to give moral, psychological and spritual support to his colleagues, irrespective of their religious affiliations.

 

I cannot see how that could possibly be "divisive" except to maybe a tiny handful of bigoted fools.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

I cannot see how that could possibly be "divisive" except to maybe a tiny handful of bigoted fools.

 

You're very quick to throw around the word bigot aren't you?

 

Either way. I don't see it as a sound financial move. Even if it would only be a handful of people that might be uncomfortable with it, either consciously or unconsciously. Like you said, he could just as easily have the title "counsellor".

Edited May 26, 2010 by PhilStarbucksSilkySkills

[garcon]

You're very quick to throw around the word bigot aren't you?

Only at you, oddly enough.

 

Either way. I don't see it as a sound financial move. Even if it would be a handful of people that might be uncomfortable with it, either consciously or unconsciously.

See if you can find a single reported example that even suggests that might be the case. I'll make it easy for you - for any chaplain, anywhere.

 

 

The way I see it, it's a problem nowhere else but within your fevered, anti-religious head. You hate religion so much, you feel the need to attack someone who is there for no other reason but to help others. That's really very sad.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

Whether it's at a football club or in the army, the role and duty of a chaplain is to give moral, psychological and spritual support to his colleagues, irrespective of their religious affiliations.

 

This may be nitpicking. But I would point out that spiritual support could only be given to those who share the chaplain's spiritual beliefs. Assuming they have any at all. Which many won't.

 

[garcon]

A chaplain can provide spiritual support to anyone who seeks it. It's not mandatory, he's not going to force it upon them, but nor is it necessarily limited to those who share his faith.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

The way I see it, it's a problem nowhere else but within your fevered, anti-religious head. You hate religion so much, you feel the need to attack someone who is there for no other reason but to help others. That's really very sad.

 

 

It's really sad that you feel the need to chatise me so much, when I am trying to have a constructive conversation. You constantly call me biggotted and referring to me as things like "feverred anti religious". You never can merely answer the points. You always have to make it personal. I have never encountered as much hostility as I have from both you and one other member of OWTB.

 

It's pretty disappointing that you feel the need to pigeonhole someone you don't even know as such a hateful person in your effort to win an argument. Why don't you just try keeping it on a rational level?

[singe]

You seem awfully sure of this

So do you? Why?

 

Obviously they don't have an issue with it. I'm merely pointing out I believe they should be more clever than that.

 

 

 

If he is not trained in the field and he doesn't offer that service, then he is exclusively there to offer religious support. Which means they are all the more endorsing a religion. This is fine if they want to be known as a christian club. It is foolish if they do not.

How can a club that has Jewish owners "want" to be known as a Christian club?

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

A chaplain can provide spiritual support to anyone who seeks it. It's not mandatory, he's not going to force it upon them, but nor is it necessarily limited to those who share his faith.

 

Of course it is limited to those who share his faith. If the guy he is counselling doesn't share the same spiritual belief, then what good is his spiritual support going to be (unless a conversion is in process).

 

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

How can a club that has Jewish owners "want" to be known as a Christian club?

 

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

 

[garcon]

Why don't you just try keeping it on a rational level?

Because you are very clearly a long way from rational.

 

(And reading the debates you have involved yourself in, that isn't just my view).

[singe]

It's really sad that you feel the need to chatise me so much, when I am trying to have a constructive conversation. You constantly call me biggotted and referring to me as things like "feverred anti religious". You never can merely answer the points. You always have to make it personal. I have never encountered as much hostility as I have from both you and one other member of OWTB.

 

It's pretty disappointing that you feel the need to pigeonhole someone you don't even know as such a hateful person in your effort to win an argument. Why don't you just try keeping it on a rational level?

So what is you point?

That you do not want the club to have any Christian connections becasue it might deter other faiths?

Can you give me an example like who ? Fans, players, or owners?

Owners? natch

Players? Joe Jaconson, Dean Furman. Natch

Fans?

You sem awfully sure that there are other faiths not attending, Care to give some proof? Was it all religions or any perticular one?

Given that the UK is divided into 96% Christian 6% other, I cannot see there being much demand for anything other than Christian, Jewish or Muslim religious support.

Being as the club offer this service on an non paid basis I suspect they can offer Jewish support, through their connections, so the only other you can be referring to is Muslim. I fail to see the Muslim players they need to cater for . Or are youy saying that they should offer moral support to fans too?

That would be an intersting concept, and I cannot see a huge rise in crowds if they did.

So, again, what is your point?

[garcon]

Of course it is limited to those who share his faith. If the guy he is counselling doesn't share the same spiritual belief, then what good is his spiritual support going to be (unless a conversion is in process).

By sharing his faith I mean sharing his particular faith, i.e. Islam or Christianity. A devout Christian and a devout Muslim have more similarities than differences - so of course a Christian chaplain can give spiritual support to a Muslim colleague. Or a Jewish one. Or one who holds any other faith. The only people for whom spiritual support, in that context, would be irrelevant would be atheists.

[singe]

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Not really, no. As Idon't think they do.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

So what is you point?

That you do not want the club to have any Christian connections becasue it might deter other faiths?

Can you give me an example like who ? Fans, players, or owners?

Owners? natch

Players? Joe Jaconson, Dean Furman. Natch

Fans?

You sem awfully sure that there are other faiths not attending, Care to give some proof? Was it all religions or any perticular one?

Given that the UK is divided into 96% Christian 6% other, I cannot see there being much demand for anything other than Christian, Jewish or Muslim religious support.

Being as the club offer this service on an non paid basis I suspect they can offer Jewish support, through their connections, so the only other you can be referring to is Muslim. I fail to see the Muslim players they need to cater for . Or are youy saying that they should offer moral support to fans too?

That would be an intersting concept, and I cannot see a huge rise in crowds if they did.

So, again, what is your point?

 

I didn't say I was sure of anything. I was raising a point for discussion. Take it or leave it. I don't care. I don't need to give examples. Common sense dictates that affilating an organisation with a specific religion is going to put some people off. It doesn't really bother me though. I just find it silly.

 

And there is no way that 96% of the UK is Christian. But even if that was true, it would not invalidate my point.

 

[garcon]

I didn't say I was sure of anything. I was raising a point for discussion. Take it or leave it. I don't care. I don't need to give examples. Common sense dictates that affilating an organisation with a specific religion is going to put some people off. It doesn't really bother me though. I just find it silly.

 

And there is no way that 96% of the UK is Christian. But even if that was true, it would not invalidate my point.

You were raising a point for discussion. You don't care.

 

So, you take an extreme, bigoted point of view purely to fish for reaction.

 

Well gee, seems I got hooked.

 

Way to go, dickhead.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

Because you are very clearly a long way from rational.

 

(And reading the debates you have involved yourself in, that isn't just my view).

 

Asserting that I am irrational is not an argument, and does not make it so. I have only tried to communicate with you on a logical level.

 

No, obviously it is not just your view that I am irrational. I've already mentioned that you are one of two members of OWTB that feel the need to attack me personally at every turn and make unfounded judgements of my character. I really wish you would both grow up. Disagreeing with me is one thing. Turning it into a slanging match is quite another.

[garcon]

Oh my! Methinks he doth protesteth too much!

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

You were raising a point for discussion. You don't care.

 

So, you take an extreme, bigoted point of view purely to fish for reaction.

 

Well gee, seems I got hooked.

 

Way to go, dickhead.

 

See what I mean people, this is what I have to put up with. I'm a bigot again, and a dickhead.

 

FYI garcon, I don't care if you take it or leave it. I don't care if you agree with me. I am merely raising a point for discussion. Is that so difficult to understand?

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

Oh my! Methinks he doth protesteth too much!

 

grow up!

[garcon]

FYI garcon, I don't care if you take it or leave it. I don't care if you agree with me. I am merely raising a point for discussion. Is that so difficult to understand?

There's a pretty big gap between raising points for discussion - something I have absolutely no problem with - and adopting an extreme and irrational viewpoint purely to try and get a rise out of people.

 

I'm sure you;re overjoyed that it seemingly worked with me.

 

Mind you, please don't imagine that I'm bashing this out in a fit of rage - quite the opposite. I'm actually starting to pity you.

 

Maybe you need some counselling.

 

From a decent chaplain perhaps.

 

You probably have one at work if you care to investigate.

[garcon]

Just to try and drag us back to the subject, does anyone agree that the club having a chaplain is divisive or in any way at all negative?

 

 

 

Anyone?

[singe]

I didn't say I was sure of anything. I was raising a point for discussion. Take it or leave it. I don't care. I don't need to give examples. Common sense dictates that affilating an organisation with a specific religion is going to put some people off. It doesn't really bother me though. I just find it silly.

 

And there is no way that 96% of the UK is Christian. But even if that was true, it would not invalidate my point.

I have taken it that is why i have posted my response.

I am trying to discuss, and by using facts, have tried to further the discussion. as it happens I think I have disproven your argument (in my opinion, I accept). I have used common sense by providing you with the facts on which you and others can form an opinion.

Your argument is based on a feeling you have.

Commons sense is not providing for something that there is no material need for.

2001 Census, 96% Christian. Fact.

Your feeling is that it is less is coloured by you blinkered view that refuses to accept a counter discussion.

 

[singe]

Just to try and drag us back to the subject, does anyone agree that the club having a chaplain is divisive or in any way at all negative?

 

 

 

Anyone?

I do not believe it is divisive!

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

There's a pretty big gap between raising points for discussion - something I have absolutely no problem with - and adopting an extreme and irrational viewpoint purely to try and get a rise out of people.

My extreme and irrational viewpoint is that having a 'club chaplain' (and therefore advocating a religion) would be devisive to some.

 

me!! I'm Adolf Hitler!

 

Mind you, please don't imagine that I'm bashing this out in a fit of rage - quite the opposite. I'm actually starting to pity you.

 

Maybe you need some counselling.

 

Whatever dude. I wonder if you're this much of a prick in person. I doubt you'd have the balls to say this kind of crap to my face.

 

From a decent chaplain perhaps.

 

You probably have one at work if you care to investigate.

 

Not unless I have a squatter I don't know about. I doubt it though, I only have a two bedroom house. There is however a vicar on my road that I sometimes talk to, and of course my mother is also a reverend.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Zorrro