nzlatic

Now we can see why the NL bent over when it came to the fa cup. Ives probably has a cushy FA job lined up and will push this shite through first. Stinks. 

See, we didn’t need a self-flagellating statement from the club to cheers us up, just some good old fashioned positive transfer rumours!

2 minutes ago, League one forever said:

A good example is Kitching. 
 

Not the same player since Christmas- I wonder why. 
 

He’s in contract. 
 

But while Mellon may not his attitude he has 5/6 other priorities to shift out first. 
 

So he needs him for next season, is Kitching going to go back to the pre Christmas player because he has a new left winger in front him. . . Not for me. 

To answer your question above and in relation to Kitching, how I’d react as a player would depend entirely on what he has said to me in private or to the squad in private, not what he’s said in a post match interview. 

2 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Eh? I never said that.
 

You’ve literally made that one up. 
 

I said - ‘why would players (plural but not individual or everybody) he’s effectively (as in might as well have) called shit start to play for him
 

If I could be arsed I’d give you the direct quotes where he said numerous times that many of the squad aren’t good enough, but there’s no point because you’ll ask me for more evidence or he might not mean what he says in the media. 
 

I saw your other reply, where you found the pissboil funny. I think you’re anti pissboil- nothing is much of a concern because it’s all part of an abstract bigger picture that no one really knows about because the club don’t communicate. 
 

This is what will happen, and if I’m wrong I will hold my hand up. 
 

We’ll get rid of a few in contract and Mellon will sign 6-8. (If not more)  The majority will be older players. Next season the football won’t change. We’ll grind, results will be indifferent. Teams will out run us and look fitter, and we’ll still be struggling for pace in the side. Fans will get his on his back because results aren’t great and the football is poor and Mellon (with half a squad of his own signings) will be blaming everything but himself. 
 

Bookmark me on it. 

Yeah I've read that prediction elsewhere. I've no desire to bookmark anything. I'm sure if that happens you'll be the first to point to it!

But to go back to my response, I don't understand the point you're making then. You said "Even if half the squad can be changed he’s still got a half squad he’s said numerous times isn’t good enough". I took that to mean you saying he's called all the players not good enough. If that's not what you meant then I don't know what you did mean.

You can call a collective thing shit, but not mean that each individual is shit. Hawaiian pizzas are shit, but I don't mean every ingredient is shit in itself.

40 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Spot on. 
 

Even if half the squad can be changed he’s still got a half squad he’s said numerous times isn’t good enough. Why would players who haven’t performed him or effectively been called shit - suddenly start doing it for him. It doesn’t make any sense. 

He’s never once said that every player in the squad is shit. 

1 hour ago, Dave_Og said:

 

It's not really a massive change though - it's just a theory that may or may not come about.  If he has a squad largely made up of players he'd worked with before, and largely ones he's said aren't good enough, we're in big trouble.  It all seems to swing on how many of the out of favour we can offload and how much of their wages we will still be paying.  Room for manoeuvre is clearly very limited and means that the half a dozen or so that we will probably sign all have to work out, hit the ground running and be injury free.  On recent form in the recruitment stakes I'd rate that as being a very long shot indeed.

I guess I disagree that sweeping changes are needed and that the chances of them happening are miniscule. It's defeatist for starters, which I'd rather not be. But I also don't think either of those things are true. We wouldn't have needed to convert many of our draws to wins to be in the play offs (4 to be exact) and that's with a squad that had some major positional gaps. So I don't think we're a million miles away from competing higher up.

I also think there's plenty of scope for moving players in and out. Most of the contracted players who we may be wanting to move have had decent careers elsewhere.

There's a lot of time for them to make advances over the summer and I don't think it requires recruitment to be perfect to do so.

43 minutes ago, BradKnowles1 said:

If there is no budget for bringing better than them we are in trouble 

You've missed the last bit of what @Frankly Mr Shankly has said. Are there better as back up for what they would cost? Not can we afford better full stop.

He might get rid of them all too, who knows. But if he does decide to keep them it doesn't necessarily mean we're fucked. Which is what some people seem to take from it.

The reality is we need a squad of around 24 players. We now have a squad of 19 and a number of that squad will leave as they are clearly not in his plans:

Kofi Moore (probably a season loan)

Joe Nuttall

Alex Reid

Mark Shelton

Kurt Willoughby

That brings us to 14. I don't think we'll stop there either. I think more will go out of what's left. Which for the sake of argument brings us to 12 players. If we want a squad of 24 then that's another 8 signings, plus the 4 rumoured from the out of contract list. 

That's still a massive change from where we were last week. But with 16 of the 24 in my hypothetical situation being existing players who have worked with Mellon, that brings an element of continuity when it comes to what he expects from his players.

Some folk seem to think that Mellon’s grand plan is to move out a few of the in-contract players just so he can resign a few of the out of contract players. And that’s it. And they’re losing their minds about it

Its ridiculous. Desperately seeking something to be furious about. Or to find “evidence” that backs their view that Mellon should be sacked. 
 

There also seems to be some thinking that any player retained, resigned or signed is an automatic first team starter. Do the sums… 11 players can start a match, the squad will be something like 25 players. Not all of them can start!

Let’s say we move 4 players on and resign the 4 rumoured out of contract as squad players. Then we’d probably be signing half a dozen more to complete the squad. Those ones being the missing pieces to improve us. 
 

Seems to make sense. 

5 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

I wouldn't say we've been eating at Michelin star restaurant more a greasy spoon with a 1 out of 5 hygiene rating.

5 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

No but 5 promotions as a manager does

 

When was the last time we saw a promotion winning team? Atleast half of our fanbase hasn't seen one so I'm not sure we do truly know what one looks like.

It’s like saying you know what good food is because you eat at Michelin starred restaurants. You don’t know how to choose the ingredients or how to cook it!

Mellon has a track record of delivering promotion when given time and resource. That’s why I’m very comfortable with him being kept on. 

9 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

Most voted Tory in the last general elected.

No they didn’t. 43% of votes went to the tories but they won a massive landslide thanks to our wonderful voting system. 
 

I’m not sure how pleased Mellon would be being compared to them either

They’ve left that ambiguous haven’t they! All released?!

1 minute ago, Dave_Og said:

Has any youth player we've released in, say, the last decade gone on to have a decent career?

Was wondering this myself. Ones that weren’t given a chance here but went on to play higher. I’m struggling to think of any. 

9 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

And Cheltenham have Nuttall firing..how can that be?

Because different players flourish under different conditions. 

2 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

I’m not saying change them, I’m saying we have to many and we should spend the budget elsewhere. 
 

We do not need 5 centre backs plus a youth centre back. It’s ridiculous. 

McGahey can cover CB and CDM though so it’s like having 4.5 centre backs.

3 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

Or, is it not like a drug. Once you've experienced one success, you're hungry for more of it. As someone who's attending lots of interviews at the moment, employers want candidates who have demonstrated success elsewhere.

 

Alarm bells are raised far more from 'nearly men' than 'winners', if you get my jist.

It’s probably both. You see it in all sports, you’ll get ones that win a title so their goal is achieved and they then fade away, mission accomplished. But you also get ones who are serial winners. They’ll keep going as winning is like a drug. 
 

Same with the workplace - you’ll have people trading off a success for years and coasting without the drive to build on it. Sorting one from the other is the tough part!

10 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

My point is maybe the players weve signed might have provided the talent, rather than contributed to the mental side of successful sides they were a part of previously. 

 

Also not sure about the hunger of a player who's already been there and done promotion. Do you have the same eagerness, if you've already won it? 

Agree. Most of our signings were well received by our fans. But maybe that’s where the naivety of Unsworth came in last summer - he was looking at it more superficially. Someone experienced like Mellon will hopefully look for more this summer. 

16 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

There's a real dilemma here.

 

It's just bizarre that so many of our players appeared to be weak mentally - Many have played at a higher level, many have achieved things in their career that are what we as a club aspire to. But they're mentally weak?  It makes no sense at all.  Mellon seems to have preferred experience over youth during his career but here he has a team of largely experienced players who have proved they can play at this level, at least, but we're left with spineless performances against clubs with a fraction of the resources.  OK, we were light at right back and in midfield but it doesn't excuse some of the stuff we've seen which has looked a lot like throwing in the towel.

 

So, we'd prefer a good blend of young dynamic players who, pretty much by definition, will be taking a step up if the come here even if they are coming from a higher level club where they played in, say the U23s, and gnarly NL experience.  If our first question of that younger cohort is can the cope with the pressure of playing for the mighty Oldham Athletic and the only way of finding out is by signing and playing them, then we really are stuffed because the chances of getting that right, say, 75% of the time seem to be pretty remote based on recent experience.

Part of the issue and what makes it hard to understand is how many are affected in this way? It might not be that many but enough for it to spread. I wouldn’t have thought Conlon would fall under that bracket but he plays that way. So maybe it’s like an infection? And the answer I suppose is to either cut it out or introduce something to fight that infection. Or both. 
 

Im just guessing here by the way. But something is wrong when it comes to the mental side of our game clearly.

4 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

I'm glad the NL haven't jumped on the bandwagon. No replays make for a much better competition and there's more chance of giantkillings in a one off game...

Irrespective of my opinion on the subject, I’d rather the NL represent the views of their member clubs than make unilateral decisions on stuff like this. 

6 minutes ago, OneSizeFitz said:

 

I might be in a minority of one here, but I don't think he's that technically limited... He's strong, decent in the air, and not hopeless with the ball at his feet (for a defender). Spent several seasons playing regularly in League One / League Two and still only 28. So added to the 'personality', can see why Mellon might keep hold of him. 

Yeah i agree. He doesn’t often look to go back, he sometimes tries to beat a man or try a forward pass. Doesn’t always come off which becomes frustrating but I can see his uses as a squad player. 

If the rumours are true about McGahey getting a new deal then I’m guessing it would be because he sees in him a mental strength that others don’t have. So would rather have him as a back up for central defence or defensive midfield. Even if he is limited as a player. 
 

1 hour ago, Dave_Og said:

Many things that I struggle to get my head around, one would be Lundstram.Apparently he'd struggled to adjust to being at a bigger club? He's not got much of a career ahead of him if that's really the case. It's not like he's moved to Real Madrid 

I think playing for Oldham in the national league is comparable to playing for the top premier league teams. Relatively of course. You’re expected to perform and you’re expected to win the league. That’s a huge difference to playing for someone who would be delighted with a play off place so needs the right sort of player who can handle it. Added to that, there was an extra layer of pressure on Lundstram particularly because a lot of our issues early this season were partly blamed on him being out injured so by the time he came back we’re all expecting to see a world beater. 
 

Those side of things need work on too as well as physical attributes. I think he looked a lot better when he came back after Mellon gave him a break. So I’m hopeful he can kick on next season. That’s why recruitment is so crucial and probably so difficult this summer. We need more players who will keep moving forward when the pressure is on (metaphorically and literally!) and not ones that will shrink like too many of ours have done this season. 

9 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Apparently, that’s happened 7 times in 5 years across the whole FA Cup, it’s a rare event. That includes all prem teams by the way and I don’t class getting a draw plus a replay at Luton as a great day out is it. 

Is that stat referring to Premier league teams or any team where someone from a league or 2 below plays a higher club? A non league team playing Portsmouth in the first round for example would be pretty exciting for them. 

7 hours ago, sjk2008 said:

I was just about to respond to your original post then…

 

Whether people agree with me or not, if it’s the FA Cup 3rd round and we drew someone like Arsenal, Spurs, United, Liverpool at home, I honestly think I’d prefer to draw and get a replay than win. We’re obviously not gonna win the thing so I’m clearly thinking of other factors beyond the result, but you just can’t beat getting rocking up at the bigger teams away from home with a load of blind optimism.
 

And yes of course, you could win and draw another big time, but it’s not very likely.

 

Forest, Everton and Fulham are easily top 5 away days for me.

I was going to say exactly the same. When we equalised against Everton at home if you’d have offered me a choice of a replay or extra time and penalties then I’d have taken the replay. It isn’t just about the best chance of progressing it’s watching our club play at a ground like that. The “magic” of the cup and all that.