nzlatic

39 minutes ago, trfc2024 said:

 

Its a fair point, thinking back to when Brabin was here though the majority were National League or players released so he does have an eye for a player. As you rightly say there is some talent in the National League.

 

Despite the rivalry I do hope you get promotion next season, would much rather be playing you in league games.

 

On an aside with regards to transfers I was not shocked at all to see Tollitt leave soon after Micky joining, the two of them just do not get on.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if Paul Lewis is one who leaves us for you, Micky has signed him a number of times and he is out of contract with us. I think you will sign a player 35+ as well, he signed Perkins, Clarke etc when here, he likes an experienced leader in the side

When Mellon took over from Brabin, did he have to do an overhaul of the playing squad? Or had Brabin signed some decent players already?

https://analyisport.com/insights/how-football-clubs-use-data-to-sign-players/
 

Interesting article about it. 

I don’t know how stats are used in recruitment but I’d hope they’re used to compliment other aspects of recruitment. It’s like performance stats. You wouldn’t pick your team based on them, but they should be useful info as part of assessing your own players. 
 

I’d be surprised if we’re relying on stats heavily when making signings but it would be useful to have more of an insight. 

The bulk of the squad were here under the old regime or were signed by Unsworth/Thompson. I’m inclined to think that’s more likely to be the main problem. 
 

We were shopping in the bargain basement pre Frank. Then Unsworth was tasked with something he hadn’t done before - build a promotion winning squad. Him and Thompson clashed a lot too didn’t they? So it’s not a stretch to see how that could have gone badly.

I’ve got a lot more faith in Mellon and Brabin doing the subsequent rebuild.

2 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

I get the impression it's easier to get Israel and Hamas to see eye to eye than @League one foreverand @nzlatic 

1 hour ago, League one forever said:

 

That’s not wholly true to be fair. (Not from my end anyway) He makes lots of points I agree with, and even if I don’t agree I enjoy the debate because he’s usually fair and balanced. 
 

In my view he’s to forgiving and understanding for the position we find ourselves in, he may think I’m to demanding and don’t accept the bigger picture enough. That’s life. It’s ok to disagree, be a bit boring if we agreed all the time.

I think we’ve been doing really well this season up til now!

Maybe we argue in similar ways so when we don’t agree we end up going round in circles?! That’s the internet for you. If we were sat having a pint it’d probably be a very different story. 

1 hour ago, deyres42 said:

Players shouldn't be forced into moves they may not want to make just because one manager doesn't fancy them.

That surely must happen at most clubs most seasons.

25 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

I don't believe for a single second that the last couple of months is all down to the quality of the squad, not for one second. If that was the case no way would they have gone in the run that took us 5th and looking nailed on for the play offs. Something happened.

Something could have happened. But it could just be that these things happen to most teams. Why have Aldershot not won in 6? Why did altrincham lose 6 on the trot randomly in the middle of the season? Last season Chesterfield had a shocking 10 game run out of the blue. 

We’ve started and ended the season with very similar runs of results. We had similar bad runs last season too. I think it’s a fairly common thing for play off teams to have these spells. But probably not normal for it to happen twice in the same season hence we’ve blown it. 

1 minute ago, League one forever said:

Quite. . and you did the exact same to me. 

 

Are you telling me that you don’t think you’re right as well. . of course you do. Which is fine. 
 

It’s the nature of debate- two opposing views who both think their view is the correct one. We agree on a lot of things, some things we don’t. That’s life. 

Did I? I try to only respond to things people say so if I’ve misrepresented what you’ve said somewhere then I’ll retract. 
 

This is what I think I’m right about… I think it’s the right thing to do to give Mellon proper time to change the squad. I wouldn’t say that I 100% think he will come good. I just think it’s right to give people the time and the resources they need to be a success in their jobs. Mellon has not had that yet. So I disagree with people calling for his sacking or even judging him in really strong terms yet. 
 

I also think it’s the right thing to do to give the board some slack with their decision making. To accept that they will get things wrong but that over time things will move forward. So harsh judgement there is premature in my opinion. 
 

That doesn’t mean that Mellon or the board are above criticism. Or that no one is allowed to say anything against them. Or we shouldn’t be expectant or demanding as a fan base. All of those accusations have been levelled at anyone who dares to suggest patience. But the language I heard yesterday at the game and on here for a while now is just so over the top. You’d think we were heading for oblivion. It’s making it for me the worst time I’ve ever had being a latics fan. Even when we were close to the brink under the last lot there was a togetherness among the fan base. Now it just seems like most fans are in a competition to be the most angry that things aren’t working yet. It’s really depressing.

And the worst thing is I don’t think it stops if we get promoted, only paused. I think the feeling will be the same until we hit the top 7 of league 1. Anything other than a constant upward movement will be seen as failure until we get to that level. I really hope I’m totally wrong about that one. 

14 hours ago, League one forever said:

You didn’t. I did- I was giving an example of how long we may wait with  your expectations, and the unrealistic nature of not expecting anything to happen in the first two years. 
 

Eh? Neither are you, and yet you talk in absolute terms of how a football club works - when in reality you have  no idea. I’ve never claimed to know- I can only go what off DR says in public at fans forums, to OASF, to the pod - you then look and see how that affects what happens on the pitch. Which is our only barometer. So of course I’m looking at what happens on the pitch- it’s the sole reason why we bother supporting them. 
 

No, sorry- a new owner does exactly that. Football is a very small world, and word very quickly gets out that Oldham have money - don’t seem to remember us struggling to give Scunthorpe 100k for nuttall and pay him good wages and deal with his agent. Agents will be falling over themselves to offer us players, why - because we pay good money, our recruitment and length of contract tell you that. Our scouting network was sorted in the first few months, and has produced nothing. Our coaching set up below first team is very good with muzza and chucks doing a great job with the youth. So that doesn’t wash. 
 

I actually think we’re agreed here. 
 

Mellon needs to take responsibility for his part, but he is not solely responsible for the mess we find ourselves in and it needs everybody The Rothwells - DR - the board - Mellon in the summer to tell some home truths. 

 

What makes having a discussion on a message board really difficult sometimes is when people argue points you haven’t made because it makes it easier for them to be right. I started replying to this but I can’t be bothered so I’ll just leave it. 

8 minutes ago, League one forever said:

I disagree. 
 

When you wipe a company’s debt, give it multiple new staff and give it a very large cheque to move forward with - you want to see that business get results/ make improvements after two years.  What you don’t say is, don’t worry - I don’t expect anything for 5 - 10 years. What you allude to is the micro, what I am talking about is the macro. Recruitment, player profile and age, sell on value, contracts given, youth pathway- we have failed miserably. Furthermore all this ‘normalcy of business’ doesn’t happen at a lot of other clubs. Strange that.
 

You’re going to extremes again to validate your narrative. . . no one is saying torch it all. It’s a lot more simple  than that- and Mellon has started the ball rolling with that interview. 
 

Since Frank came in - the football operation has been and is a mess. Not because of what they inherited, but because they‘ve made poor decisions in the last two years alone. 
 

This is on DR, the board, and Mellon, - not to say sack them- but to say they have done a poor job and it needs addressing asap. As Mellon says some very honest conversations need to happen. 
 

 

 

 

Jesus. Where did I say that?! And I’m the one supposedly going to extremes!

You aren’t involved in the business but yet you’re talking as if you’ve got full visibility of every facet of the business, it’s targets and it’s success/failures. Whereas in reality you’re looking solely at what is happening on the pitch. 
 

And yes the past almost certainly has an impact on footballing matters even after Frank came in. Our reputation for how we dealt with agents or other clubs for example, our reputation with players for not paying them. A new owner just doesn’t wipe all those things away immediately, it takes time to turn around. Our non existent scouting network. The facilities we could offer players. Our coaching infrastructure. All these things needed building from the ground up. You don’t get every decision on that journey right. 
 

The football side of things need improving. What has gone wrong has to be understood and put right. Processes need to be improved. Personnel may need to change. But to say that what happened in the past has no lasting impact is nonsense. The same can be applied to Mellon. He’s had 6 months and made a few signings so the failure to reach the play offs is on his shoulders alone and so he needs sacking? I don’t agree. 

25 minutes ago, GKing521 said:

Right. Stop it.

 

It’s clear the supposed negative noises in away end today have riled you up but this is a fan base that has nothing but pain for many, many years.

 

There are players out there wearing our colours and on more money than most were on when we were in the 3rd tier. 

 

We brought in a manager to get us into the play offs and he’s not just missed that objective - he has categorically FAILED. 

 

What is there to suggest that Mellon will now be able to get these players back on his side this summer? A lot of them are sticking around…

 

I’m sorry, but deep rooted change is needed. 

Stop what? Saying Mellon should be given time or criticising fans who are trying to hound Norwood out?

27 minutes ago, League one forever said:

There shouldn’t be a lot to fix. . . 
 

Frank fixed the legacy nearly two years ago.
 

We have one of the highest gates.
 

We have one of the best budgets.
 

But since Frank came in - decision after decision on the football side has been woeful. That’s nothing to do with Chris Moore, Simon Corney, or AL. There are clubs far far worse of than us, who manage their football much better. 
 

The culture of excuse has to stop, and people at the club need to take accountability and fans need to stop looking to blame things that happened years ago. 
 

If a business has been underfunded and mismanaged for a decade or 2, you don’t turn it around in less than 2 years just with good intentions and chucking some money at it. It’s not an excuse, it’s just not how business works. At all. 
 

We have new people in pretty much every position. All working together for the first time. Mistakes will happen. It can’t be avoided. Plans will be made and then changed. Take recruitment, our issues could be because the process was wrong last summer. So that could take time to fix properly, who knows? This is all perfectly normal though - it will take time to get the set up of the club working to its best in every department. More time than 2 seasons. 
 

Some people want to respond to adversity by torching everything and everyone and starting from scratch. I might be wrong but I don’t think that’s the way to go for long term health of the club. 

6 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

By that reckoning you'd have kept DU till the end of the season.

Fans aren't stupid, they say what they see and will cheer when it's good and give flak when it isn't.

 

That’s a bit different. It should go without saying that I don’t think every manager gets unlimited time to get it right. 
 

Unsworth had a long, poor run to start with. He then had a good 2nd half of the season but even then he didn’t pick up points at the rate that Mellon did over his first 20 games. He then had the full summer to recruit which he didn’t do as well as he should have done. And then had a shocking start to the season. He also had no track record outside of youth football. 
 

Mellon picked up points at nearly 2 per game. He’s got multiple promotions under his belt all after at least 1 full season. We’ve now had a run of 6 draws and 3 defeats and we should sack him? It’s a massively over the top reaction to something that happens in all clubs, even ones that get promoted. 

13 minutes ago, Gaz_Oafc said:

 

That post in itself should tell you how much of a poisoned chalice the Oldham Managers job is...

 

He's been here about 30 games and your telling me that he's the most boo'd manager? For a part of that we were top of the form table!

 

 

Some absolute entitled weapons support this club and it's putting me off more than the performances on the pitch!

That’s how I felt on the terrace today. It was horrible. Actively singing against your own player for missing a chance. The guy who is the only one who’s scored goals with any regularity this season. I just don’t see how we can truly move forward as a club if the fans are frothing at the mouth whenever the team or a player has a bad run of form. 
 

There’s lots to fix, of course there is, but is that a massive surprise given what has happened to the club over the last 10/15 years? But no one gets time. It has to be quick or you’re out. 

3 minutes ago, League one forever said:

As is any lacking any fair and/or  balanced critical eye over things. 
 

For every fanatical ‘everything is shit fan’ there is a fanatical ‘everything will come good/what you whinging about’ fan. 
 

You will never say, this isn’t good enough, or question why. You will always find a reason an excuse for why things aren’t going well. 
 

The whole football operation is badly run, you can dress it up how you want but the decision making speaks for itself. 

I stood there and listened to some fucking awful stuff today. Absolutely irrational negative bollocks. If I was James Norwood I would 100% be looking for another club this summer off the back of today. 
 

I don’t think I put any irrational positive bollocks on here but if you’ve found some I’ll happily address it. 

Sack him. Sack the players. Sack the board. Sack the statistics. 
 

Then if the new lot aren’t top of the table in 6 months, sack them all too. 
 

Give medals to the fans who were signing anti James Norwood songs loudly and repeatedly for the crime of… checks notes… missing a chance. They’re the real heroes. 
 

This toxicity is fucking performative and farcical. I can’t be arsed with it. 

If we don’t score in the first 15 minutes it feels like the players and fans lose the pre match optimism and things get worse from there. 

55 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

But we can't have scouted players at the time like Freeman who had injury problems.

Appears to me more like agent recommendations.

I have no idea what the process was with Freeman but they only gave him a 6 month deal so they obviously didn’t feel confident signing him up for longer. I’d be more interested in the process for those we give longer, permanent contracts to. 

17 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

Quite right. I guess the alternative is to traditionally scout at step one, but there is a huge potential you may be missing a great player that's just not on your radar and SB narrows that.

 

When the takeover went through, there was a school of thought that we wanted to build the infrastructure that was ready for L1 football so that when the rise through the leagues happens, as expected, we'd be ready to compete straight 'out of the box'. SB is part of that and I'm sure data is used by almost every club from L1 upwards anyway. It's only when bumps in the road happen, that some rudimentary narrow-thinking commentary arises such as "A lot of the players are terrible. It must be Stats Bombs fault".

 

It's also reasonable to expect that SB might not flourish until you've used it for a decent amount of time. High performance IT systems adapt and evolve to your business model over a set amount of time. I don't think the casual fan is in a sound enough position to provide much convincing critique on a system like that unless they've used it regularly themselves.

Really good point in last para. The whole journey back to L1 won’t be a straight line either. There’ll be lots of ups and downs and mistakes made. I’d guess mistakes will occur more frequently in the early years too. 
 

Just because mistakes happen, we have spells of bad form, appoint the wrong manager or sign the wrong players doesn’t mean we’re not on the right path. 

1 hour ago, BP1960 said:

 

Stats are only an indicator, Ive nothing against them being in conjunction with actually watching a player to see if he currently matches up to them.

Absolutely. And this is how they are being used I think. I’m sure it’s been said that the stats tools are used to identify possible players from a wider selection. They are then shortlisted and scouted in the more traditional sense. 
 

The way some are talking is as if DR is using statsbomb like top trumps, seeing a striker with 10/10 for shooting and signing him to a 3 year deal. 

A medical room with all these new fangled machines and devices to help physios deal with injuries and rehabilitation better? What tosh. Nothing wrong with a bucket and a sponge. 

7 hours ago, AndyB2 said:

Who happened to use the loan market to good effect. 
 

But yes, he was most of what you say 

We were 2 divisions higher then so better loanees were much easier to come by. 

4 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Doesn’t that apply to any clutch of signings at anytime? 
 

There’s nothing to suggest that signing in the summer will mean more of them work. I’d say if you sign any group of players, a couple do really well, a couple do ok, and a couple don’t work out. 

Probably explains why people say a manager needs a few windows to properly sort a squad. 
 

Trick this summer will be this to replace 6 that haven’t worked out with 6 as you have described there. 2 great, 2 ok, 2 not ok. Then we’re 4 players better off. 

Who would have to pay to police 1800 away fans if it’s held at another ground? 

7 hours ago, meat pie sausage roll said:

Good, got your attention!

 

Whilst National League football doesn’t make headline news, equally there won’t be anybody at sky bet taking too much time considering our chances in too much detail.

i would like to provide a few facts to big up our prospects and why the 200-1 odds of promotion currently being offered do not reflect our chances. 

1. WE NEED TO WIN OUR LAST 3 GAMES. One of these is against Halifax, and if we do:-

2 Halifax need to win two of their other 3 remaining games, and 

3. Aldershot need to win 1 and draw 2 of their remaining 3 to be above us.

4. It could come down to goal difference with Halifax, but if the above is realised, it is likely that’s ours will be better, plus we have scored more goals.

5. It is likely that we will

play Halifax next Thursday, possibly at a neutral venue which will be the 3rd of 4 games they will

need to play in a week.

6, Oxford (who we play away Sat) are already relegated and are second bottom of the National

league home table.

7, Wealdstone (who we play at home last) are sliding towards relegation , haven’t won in weeks and are second bottom of the national

league away table.

8. If we do make the playoffs, it is likely that we will play Gateshead away, who will have played 5 games in just over a week. There’ll be no ticket restrictions and we should bring a good following and out number them 2:1.

9.  Alternatively, it could be Solihull or Altrincham who we’ve already beaten away this season.

10. Anything could happen in the playoff semis and final.

 

We got promoted from

the old 3rd division 50 years ago in 73/74.

Our next relegation was 20 years later in 93/94

Could our next promotion be 30 years after this in 23/24?

Can see a pattern emerging!!!
 

I would like to know what the odds were of us surviving in 92/93 with 3 games to go, or winning the title in 90/91 with 10 minutes to go.

 

We are Oldham, and don’t do things the easy way.

 

i know we’ve been gash for large parts of the season, but I really believe there are a few big performances in this team, somewhere. 
 

Please can I ask that we stop these sarky comments and just be nice to each other for 2 weeks and get behind the team.

 

its years since we have been anywhere near the play offs and we should just try an enjoy it if we can.

 

 

Love the enthusiasm! Plenty will say there’s no chance but if that was the case why bother watching sport? Slim chance of it happening, but as you say there was a slim chance of us winning the last 3 in 1993. You never know…