JoeP

1 hour ago, yarddog73 said:

Norwood on - Town score

Still had the audacity to bollock everyone else on the way back to the centre-circle...

6 minutes ago, whittles left foot said:

When neither of them can run anymore you do. Presume you wren't including Garner in best players.

Garner was. Held it up well, won free kicks. 

Bringing them both off so close to each other completely disrupted our rhythm..

Utterly bizarre subs. 

You don't take off your two best players..

10 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Was Norwood just booed on?

He was in my living room...

Bars low, but I don't think we've actually been that bad...

1 minute ago, mcfluff1985 said:

Sheron does

 

 

He'd probably edge in there, along with Gardner and Big Mike.

6 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

I’m not saying it’s the fans fault. I am saying that we all accepted the season was over probably about 5 games to early. 

We are all responsible for that. Manager, players and fans. 

 

The fans accepted it was over because of what was happening on the pitch.  How are the fans supposed to change that, when they can't encourage, criticise or even stay silent, because of the supposed negative effects it has?

It's nothing to do with the fans.  The players and management have created the air of resignation.  If the players are influencing the players that much, we need new players.

48 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

I’m not having a go at the fans, as such. 
 

I am simply saying the atmosphere and the acceptance that we arnt going to make the play offs seemed to set in far earlier than it should have. I include myself in that. 
 

Sorry, that is nonsense.

Sing encouragement?  The players can't handle the pressure..

Criticise?  The fans make a toxic atmosphere..

Do absolutely jack shit and stay silent? The fans should be lifting the team!

The fans cannot win and it's a complete and utter cop-out blaming them.

What would really fuck me off more than losing these next two games is winning both of them in style and missing out on the play-offs.  The players have had umpteen chances - for the fans, for the club, for themselves to make this a successful season and they've chosen to approach a load of crucial games like it's a knockabout in the park.

If the fans are having that much influence on it - we need to get rid of the lot and spend money on personalities ahead of perceived talent.  Players who genuinely want to be here and who want to do well for themselves and the others involved.  Players who who won't sulk when the chips are down.  Players who will encourage others and work hard.

This lot tick none of those boxes...

13 hours ago, League one forever said:

I wish we could forfeit this game and Saturday and just get on with the exodus. 

Do you not want to give our heroes a rousing send-off on Saturday??

1 hour ago, Dave_Og said:

It's taken over 40 years but Graeme Sharp's penalty against Leeds (?) is no longer the worst effort from the spot that I've ever seen. Thank you Bernardo Silva for erasing that from the record book.

Ah, Sharpy..I wonder if he still thinks he should get the Everton manager's job? 

Yes, it was Leeds. It was "Only" 30 years ago - you're ageing us all, Dave!

Just now, 100milesaway said:

1  nil  shots, and Gateshead down to 19 men.

How many did they start with??

1-0 Shots..

Not looking good for our heroes in blue and tange...

27 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

Again I think you are assuming or as you put it hypothesising on what the problem is. FYI I'm guilty of coming to Conclusions without knowing all the information too so I'm not trying to come from a holier than thou position on this, it could well be that the stats bomb data analysis hasn't delivered what we hoped it would do.

 

The point Im making here which is critical here is that we learn the right lessons from this and understand exactly why we haven't got value for money based on the actual full evidence rather than any hypothesis.

 

Youve also got to look in which way the world is going. The one where you are suggesting the manager calls all the shots which the way the likes of Royle Ferguson and Clough no longer exists. Alot of the work is delegated out to people top clubs have an army of coaches data scientists fitness people recruitment people etc. The fact that all the successful clubs are doing this should leave a clue as to what we will need to do to be successful in the future. We can carry on doing what we've always done and praying that doing the same thing will lead to success when it hasn't done for 30 years or we can embrace change and understand that we need to look forwards rather than backwards.

 

Having come to Oldham for the last 30 years I've watched a team and a town that has been left further and further behind and their seems to be a lack of appetite at times to change things and embrace the future it's time we did that.

Yes, fair points there - the world's changing and we've got to change with it.  And we've got to review why things haven't worked out so far.

But how beneficial is the new way of working for lower league clubs?  We can't afford all the data scientists, fitness and recruitment people, etc.  Arsenal say, can however afford to hoover up dozens of players based on stats with the possibility of just one turning out to be a world-class player.  We can't.  We need to sign players that aren't risks (I know every player is a risk, etc..) yet have less resources to do it.

It's a different game down here - if we're in a position to evolve to the next level at some point, then I'm all for all the different departments and personnel, etc but we are where we are and I think it needs to be fairly streamlined.  It'd be interesting to see how the smaller clubs currently sat above us in the National League work when it comes to transfers - given it's only us and York that seem to be using Statbomb, for example.

While the world is changing, etc the human psyche hasn't changed beyond that for a team to work, it doesn't just need good participants, it needs good personalities too...

58 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

We know the recruitment hasn't delivered the bang for its buck that we'd hope that's what we know to be definite

 

But how can you conclude that it's the data anslysis/stats bomb that's wrong if you admit that you don't even know how it works. Who is to say it's not poor scouting, bad recommendations from agents, bad judging from team management?

 

 

I don't - as I say (again), I'm hypothesising.

I'll also say again, I'm open to hearing about how Statsbomb works, put I'm going to make a fairly safe assumption that it's something to do with player stats.  The clue's in the name.  As we've also had/got a stats department, I'm going to suggest a lot of our signings are heavily based on stats - otherwise there'd be no point in the department existing.

Is the old-fashioned scouting still a thing?  I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it's not.  Neither is the manager driving the length and breadth of the country to watch a player they're interested in signing, as far as I'm aware.

I'm of the opinion that it should be the manager and the manager only who makes the call on signings as he's the one that's going to have to mould a team with them. So if we've got a stats department, recruitment department (previously Steve Thompson?) and the Coach/Manager with an influence, it seems like too many cooks to me and you end up with a scenario where the manager has to work with players he might not want, because other people have had an input. 

2 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

You appear to be assuming that the stats bomb is the problem without actually knowing how it works or even if we've used it, or used it properly to recruit players.

Meh, I'm all ears (or eyes..) if you want to let me know how it works...

I'm just hypothesising. Recruitment's been crap, we've had a stats and recruitment department, we seem to have signed a lot of decent players on paper, who just haven't gelled.  Doesn't seem beyond the realms that we've looked at player stats, gone "he's got those stats, he's got those stats, lets sign them" without looking at the player as a character..

I hope someone explained to him before he took over how much money he'd lose.

We own the ground and there's £5 million loan (?) available to the club, so we're not in imminent financial danger, are we?

He's wasted loads of cash and will probably need to waste a load more before we get to where we need to be.  Hopefully he's got it to spare and is willing to take the hit!

4 minutes ago, AndyB2 said:

Without wishing to simplify it, at this level if you sign competent players and cover all positions, it should be enough to look like a team. 
 

i will say it again, this is not elite sport. Rules and philosophies which apply in the premier league don’t necessarily need to transfer to this level. 

You're right there - which is why this "Statsbomb" nonsense needs scrapping.  It might work for Arsenal, but I can't believe it really tells you anything at this level.

You think about successful teams we've had in the past - they were all full of characters.  The late 80s/early 90s sides were full of them.  Paul Warne sticks in my head for some reason. You also had proper leaders like Duxbury and Gregan.  Dux in particular wasn't the most gifted footballer, but got stuck in every week and encouraged others to do the same.

I can't see anyone even nearly like that here.  I think it's irrelevant who the manager is, the dynamic just isn't right in the squad.

2 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

Which is just about what every team does in every league isn’t it?

The team bit comes afterwards when it is hoped that the players concerned complement the players you already have and can be integrated into a team.

It appears we've relied heavily on stats (which seem to be working for York (the other club using Statbomb) as well for them as it does for us) and previous achievements have been the key factor when we're looking to bring players in. 

I think you need the right chemistry in the squad as well, though - there is no way that exists amongst this lot.. 

6 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

I don't want lads who are good to have around I want winners who are solid footballers and good at their jobs, when the mindset changes we might get somewhere, we're not some sort of charity paying players wages who clog up treatment rooms or who looked fucked after 70 minutes as several did yesterday.

 

Nobody in that squad has deserved a new deal and I mean nobody, those who've got another year are lucky because there are few you'd keep if starting from scratch, honestly if the likes of Hope, Gardner, McGahey, etc.. are offered new deals I'll give up.

But we've got a group of solid footballers.  Every signing made, I can see why we've done it.  Previous promotion winners, Players of the Year and League One quality. But it isn't working.  It's a team we need.  You need quality - of course you do - but you need the right team spirit too.

1 hour ago, League one forever said:

While I like his honesty- there does feel like a bit of retrospective arse covering Joe. 
 

These players that are so bad, had us 5th. They had top 3 form for a while. They had the best away form in the league for weeks on end. We didn’t hear any of this in Jan or early Feb.  Did he perform a miracle from Oct to Feb?? I’m not having that a lot of them are now suddenly shit. He says he’s not above criticism, but doesn’t like direct questioning of his methods. . he has to reflect and ask why they’ve down tools on him. Because that’s exactly what’s happened, they don’t look interested. Remember - You do not have to be good to finish 7th. 
 

The worry is,  he wheels and deals but the scars of this season and his approach with the players are still there. At no point can you sack a squad. The players will always win. 
 

If they stick with him, I think it could take two years to sort- and I don’t think the fanbase will have the stomach for it. 

I dunno - I don't think he can really win in interviews. Say everything's fine and he's blowing smoke up our arses. Says - accurately - that things aren't well and it's a bad move and demotivating. I don't think there's anything wrong with what he's said and the timing, which is when we're almost certainly not going to make the play-offs. 

Something needed to be said about these players. The changing room is not harmonious. The other option was to pretend everything's fine and nothing will change moving forward. 

As I say, we've signed a group of individuals, rather than a team. We need to address that. We need good characters, along side talent. I think Gardner is a good character to have around, Fondop is and Conlon is supposedly too. It it'll be a surprise to no one who I think is bottom of the list on that front!

4 minutes ago, O.A.F.C. said:

In any job, do you think being told your shit is the best way to motivate people?

I agree, but one person's "telling people they're shit" is another person's "demanding higher standards of others".  Apparently...

18 minutes ago, AndyB2 said:

Go on then what is the problem with us if it isn’t the quality of our players? 

Well that's the $64,000 question, innit?

We've got a squad of previous promotion winners, Players of the season at other clubs and League One strikers, but they've all been woeful under two managers and look like they don't want to be here. 

Actually, if I could hazard a guess at what the problem is, we've signed too many individuals based on Statbomb or whatever, rather than built an actual team. We need personalities probably more than quality and this lot don't have that. I'd actually keep the likes of Fondop next season to have around the place as what he lacks in talent, he makes up for in attitude.

Can't argue with the interview.. He's being as honest as he can be. Didn't try to kid anyone. 

These players have failed under this manager and failed under the last manager. Unsworth tried to bluff his way through interviews, but Mellon is painting a more believable picture. 

The problem is we're stuck with a lot of them next year too. I can't see it getting any better. It's not a stretch to think Mellon's been given a dud hand - it seems even more dud than he initially thought. It would need an exceptional manager to get something out of this lot. So exceptional, such a manager probably doesn't exist. It's not worth rolling the dice by getting rid of Mellon. Give him time and see how it goes, but we've stitched ourselves up next season with the players we've signed and contracts we've handed out.

18 minutes ago, daniel said:

Oh come on…. Willoughby and Tollitt are crap, of course it’s due to the level they’re playing at, in that they’ve found their level. Tollitt couldn’t make Kidderminster's squad most weeks and Willoughby has never performed higher than the league below either. 
We are a problem, but our problem is signing shit players who are still here and shit players like Tollitt and Willoughby to begin with. 

Nah, I don't think that's right. 

There's no way Willoughby and Tollit are "crap" in the context of our first eleven today. Shez's starting eleven against Dorking at the start of last season are better than what we've got now. 

From there we've chucked money at it and it's somehow worse. Something ain't right..

37 minutes ago, jsslatic said:

 

And that ignores the ridiculous suggestion we'd be better off for having Willoughby and Tollitt around.

Why is it ridiculous? Both scored today and I don't believe for a second that's down to them playing at a "lower" level. 

It's us that's the problem, not them...