Matt

It's not generosity, it's my observation - which is at odds with those who'd rather jump all over the situation with scorn and insult. You sound angry to me, maybe it's the way I perceive those who can't wait to have a crack at some unfortunate soul - over and over again.

I don't think that voter attitude is an exclusive trait of left leaning constituencies. EDIT: Might get a better Labour MP though in the event of a by-election down the line?

...and that's the right thing to do. If her constituents feel that she's not up to the job, they'll vote likewise. I don't understand why you're so angry. When I watched her cock-up of an interview the other day I honestly thought that she was very poorly, and not in the frame of mind to operate as an MP or currently a candidate.

Nice. Well, I'm not as left as you think I am - there are some great policies on all sides. It's a real shame that the main driving force in political debate these days is slander and other malicious statements. I think Parliament has forgotten what Westminster is for.

I think he's getting at the fact you've previously alluded to the fact that you view top politicians with equal disdain in their incompetence, however you only discredit the liberal elite - not the political elite as a whole. I think we all agree that at the sharp end of politics, the MP's that come from collieries in Derbyshire are thin on the ground - they're more LSE these days.

Nicely edited - 'You lot'? Please expand, I'm dying to find something out about me that even I don't know about.

I'm thinking that if we hole up innocent people in with known targets it'll create more of a problem, and there have been innocent people (maybe that's a stretch - let's say, people who are less of a threat, like the cook) locked up that have later been released. Whilst incarcerated they've been exposed to some of the most evil people on the planet. With the 'Kevin Bacon' policy of monitoring and arrest you suggest, the above issue would undoubtedly happen. The alternative at the moment is a massive amount of resource is used to monitor our existing threats, deport the high level threat, stop more threats coming back into the country, and pull the online big players into line - make it difficult to access their material. It's impossible to shut down everything, but start at the top with Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, and work our way down. Reduce the exposure. EDIT: ...and that goes for everything not only al Muhajiroun and so-on, it means Stormfront, Column 88, C18. Blood and Honour etc.

Not quite - I think the context in which he said it was highlighting the complexity of the Syrian conflict, British people are fighting alongside the Free Syrian Army and Rojava who are terrorists to Assad and Putin, yet they fight Daesh.

Good idea, X-Ray wasn't exactly a roaring success.

Yeah, you're right - all those released from Gitmo wrote a postcard home then skipped to the airport.

Whatever the 'round-up' entails, we need to be certain that we don't take steps that could well have the effect of hardening their attitudes and the possibility of giving them a persecution complex on top of their other shitballs ideas.

May's been talking big on extremism for ages, however in balance, after 7/7 Blair said that the rules of the game had changed and enough is enough. 'He promised a range of powers to deal not just with violence extremism, but those he said provided it with an ideological breeding ground. His government ultimately found some of the measures legally too difficult to implement.'

If the previous debate is anything to go by, I doubt I'll get the opportunity.

I picked up something else which is related to this, UK Exports Finance. In the 2017 Conservative Manifesto it also indicates that the Government, if elected, will 'put UK Export Finance, which ensures that no viable UK export fails for lack of finance or insurance, at the heart of the UK’s trade promotion proposition'. On the face of it this sounds like the right thing to do, what with Brexit n'all - however, over the years Richard Brooks' investigative journalism uncovered a 'civil equipment' scandal that will almost certainly be the bedrock to May's Great British world market vanguard. Fucking bent from top to bottom. Accepting and turning a blind eye to corruption and bribery, and another instance of the independent Serious Fraud Office being ignored. Here's the podcast, there's also a nice little article about how forensics was privatized, taking the study out of the hands of independents all in the name of making it look like 'we're privatizing and saving money' - then only to become corrupt and inaccurate to the point where there maybe incarcerations based on the bad data this service now provides. The shocking thing now is that the Police want to create the independent Forensic Science Service again, which means the privatization was a nonsense and cost millions.

Perhaps you should.

I was referring to an argument in the terms of a reason or set of reasons given in support of a viewpoint. I just indicated that It was a really poor comparison which had little meaning. I'm not sure what your point is now - we could pore over Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz all day.

We don't see them because it's a ridiculous argument. The car has a sole purpose, carrying folk about - not warning a far East despot to stop puffing up his chest; whereas the nuclear weapons sole purpose is to reduce things to ash - not take the kids to school.

It's just been on the news, the young girl expressed the typical pacifist line - which is fine if everybody thought like that. I agree, nobody wants to engage in nuclear war, anyone who lived through Bay of Pigs and the 80's would understand that - however the UK isn't much of a player in these matters as we're not a Nuclear Triad country, we still have to position nuclear elements before we engage. In summary, we've got them - but they're as much use as tits on a fish.

I can't see the sources at the bottom, white on a green background and the size of fucking nonsense - plus my eyes are shagged. One thing I do know is that things like that graph are created for a purpose, and it often omits data that may paint a very different picture. Not saying that one does 'cos I can't fucken read it.

For heavens sake. That's something we can agree on. Evening Standard bemoans May's energy price cap or price controls claiming that the Government are interfering with the markets - however the new ed George Osbourne is also in the employ of BlackRock and on a salary of around 650k per annum. BlackRock are the biggest shareholder of Centrica... Boris Johnson has had one meeting with an external organisation to discuss 'Syria' - Aymaan Asfari, who also donated £650k to the Conservatives for the last 6 years or so. His wife has also donated a substantial amount the Conservatives. Asfari's firm Petrofac is being scrutinised by the SFO (talk about this later) for fraud and corruption, they are also in partnership with Unaoil (corruption, bribery) and they've paid a massive amount of money to Assad to work in Syria. Johnson's FO predecessor Hammond also had 'one external meeting' with Asfari. May's manifesto outlines that the independent Serious Fraud Office will come under political control by being swallowed up by the National Crime Agency. The loss of independence is made worse because of Government connections to the most corrupt-prone industries. Liam Fox is involved with seven defence sector companies, and Shell. It kind of opens up a cloak-and-dagger approach to trade with a Government which is desperate to trade with any cunt post Brexit.

All we had was a hole in the ground...

As I said earlier we've moved on, it matters what happens now - and you'd think we'd learn. I dunno, just because it is more difficult to exploit vulnerable people doesn't mean we're lucky in terms of prosperity. This thread alone only acts to reinforce the notion that as a society, we're fucked.

Yeah, and I'll print that off and take it down to Petrus and we'll all have a laugh about it.

I'm sure I'll say this again, those aren't traits exclusive to the left of politics.

The thing is, you're comparing 21st century society as we know it, with sticking kids up chimneys and picking weevils out of bread. We've moved on, the bar has been raised.