Apologies for losing The Faith

[joe_lead]

Following much soul searching I'm going to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong in calling for Shez to go, and am now a convert to giving him more time whether or not we go up. He's inexperienced so will make mistakes but he will learn because he's shown he can. Previous seasons he's left sorting contracts out untill too late in the Summer thereby leaving too little time to find replacements, he's left arranging pre-season friendlies too late all resulting in poor starts to season. This season we hit the ground running because he saw where he went wrong. He knows what he wants and we've seen glimses of what that is this year, and we can all see what he is trying to achieve and to be honest I would welcome his vision.

 

Man management skills don't come naturally to the average person the likes of Martin O'Neill are rare. It is going to take time. For the past few years we have had a squad of players capable of getting out of this league but getting a group of egocentrics to deliver is a challenge that I wouldn't envy and the Latics have had a few very experienced managers try and fail over the last decade. Changing manager now will most likely result in another repeat of recent cycle of hope and despiration. Let's not forget we wanted Ronnie to go and put Shez in. So I am willing to put up with his mistakes and allow him to continue to learn and the Latics move forward.

 

However I'm sick to death of this league to the point that I wished we'd gone down and at least had the buzz of a promotion. We need to focus on where it seems to be going wrong. I'm no expert but for my tuppeny worth:

1. Fast track Shez's man management skills by giving him access to some sort of mentor. It takes years to learn but we haven't got that time

2. Get rid of an over reliance on Loanees. More often than not it doesn't work, they don't have any allegiance to the club and neither me to them. We bring them in every January and come March it's gone paps up.

3. Get the players to take ownership and responsibility for standards by letting them agree what standards are acceptable and unacceptable both on and off the pitch. They may have a great dressing room rapport but that doesn't deliver results. There is currently a lack of proffessionalism, Dowie was excellent at this.

4. Shez has got to grow balls and make the difficult decisions when the standards aren't met. he's got to create the environment where efforts will be rewarded and vice verca. I used to be in the situation where nobody was doing what I was telling them, it took me a while to realise that the problem was me and I wasn't communicating effectively.

5. Get a couple of grafters in midfield. Creative midfielders are rare in this division. Simply get the ball off the opposition and bridge the acreage between our current midfield and the forwards.

6. Ooooppps the wife wants me to stop ignoring her --------------

 

 

[Rick]

 

You are right about the management thing. It is not something that comes naturally, but the sooner people realise that they are paid to...

 

1, Make difficult decisions

2, Act upon ill discipline or unacceptable performance immediately

3, Realise that you can't do everything yourself

4, Treat people with dignity

5, Understand "What is in it for him (or her)

6, Set a high standard and demand that it is met

 

then the better a man manager they will be.

 

I agree that Shez would probably benefit by having a mentor. Maybe someone who is experienced in the game, maybe got a team out of this division. maybe someone who Shez knows and trusts. Perhaps someone who lives in Shaw and has no hair......you never know.

 

I often think that there are so many managerial "casualties" in football because (as often happens in business) the better performers are the ones who get the manager job, rather than the people who are natural leaders. After all, to be a player of Shez's class and quality you surely need to be selfish and focused on your own and not other people's abilities - Jose Mourinho NEVER played the game at a professional level after all.

 

PS That's what wives are for

Edited February 27, 2009 by Rick

[Lukers1]

You are right about the management thing. It is not something that comes naturally, but the sooner people realise that they are paid to...

 

1, Make difficult decisions

2, Act upon ill discipline or unacceptable performance immediately

3, Realise that you can't do everything yourself

4, Treat people with dignity

5, Understand "What is in it for him (or her)

6, Set a high standard and demand that it is met

 

then the better a man manager they will be.

 

I agree that Shez would probably benefit by having a mentor. Maybe someone who is experienced in the game, maybe got a team out of this division. maybe someone who Shez knows and trusts. Perhaps someone who lives in Shaw and has no hair......you never know.

 

I often think that there are so many managerial "casualties" in football because (as often happens in business) the better performers are the ones who get the manager job, rather than the people who are natural leaders. After all, to be a player of Shez's class and quality you surely need to be selfish and focused on your own and not other people's abilities - Jose Mourinho NEVER played the game at a professional level after all.

 

PS That's what wives are for

 

yawn,,,, u really have to much time on your hands

 

[Rick]

yawn,,,, u really have to much time on your hands

 

At least time is all I've got on my hands......isn't it time you went and wiped yours?

[don't worry be happy]

bravo...rome wasn't buit in a day and mr sheridan will come good..as long as the overdraft stay's viable..it's a little of the old ronnie out scenario now...how ironic i recall the ronnie outers calling for johnny to be an inner but now he's an outer..pffffff ' listen' Jimmy frizell built that club on a shoestring budget and time..,TICK TOCK

[fourdinners]

bravo...rome wasn't buit in a day and mr sheridan will come good..as long as the overdraft stay's viable..it's a little of the old ronnie out scenario now...how ironic i recall the ronnie outers calling for johnny to be an inner but now he's an outer..pffffff ' listen' Jimmy frizell built that club on a shoestring budget and time..,TICK TOCK

 

 

Jimmy Frizzell....ahhhh....the 70's...when men were men and we lost to South Shields...them were't days

 

Great point though. Frizzell kept us alive on a shoestring and he was given time. Give Shez time. he'll get there.

[Diego_Sideburns]

However I'm sick to death of this league to the point that I wished we'd gone down and at least had the buzz of a promotion.

 

I've got the buzz of promotion at the moment.

[opinions4u]

1. Fast track Shez's man management skills by giving him access to some sort of mentor. It takes years to learn but we haven't got that time

If I was Shez I'd tell them where to go. He'll be undermined and will believe the mentor will eventually get his job

 

2. Get rid of an over reliance on Loanees. More often than not it doesn't work, they don't have any allegiance to the club and neither me to them. We bring them in every January and come March it's gone paps up.

It all went to pot when we brought in loanees earlier in the season. The loan market has its place, but decent squad blah blah blah shouldn't need the number of loan players we've seen.

 

3. Get the players to take ownership and responsibility for standards by letting them agree what standards are acceptable and unacceptable both on and off the pitch. They may have a great dressing room rapport but that doesn't deliver results. There is currently a lack of proffessionalism, Dowie was excellent at this.

Shez will have played for a range of managers with different styles. Some good. Some bad. Some that work sometimes and not others. Some where the dynamics of the team require different management techniques at different times - even from day to day. It does take time. Mistakes will be made. My big concern with Shez is that we keep seeing the same mistakes.

 

4. Shez has got to grow balls and make the difficult decisions when the standards aren't met. he's got to create the environment where efforts will be rewarded and vice verca. I used to be in the situation where nobody was doing what I was telling them, it took me a while to realise that the problem was me and I wasn't communicating effectively.

I think he makes difficult decisions. Dropped Gregan. Left out Liddle. Replaced Alessandra. Kicked out Davies and Ricketts. Change a winning team at Stockport in October. He makes the decisions and often gets them wrong. We don't really know what goes on, but what has happened before those decisions are made (to get to a point where (i) they don't need to be made because issues are resolved or (ii) the player involved understands the decision and work his tripe out to get back in the side) is the key to succeeding.

 

5. Get a couple of grafters in midfield. Creative midfielders are rare in this division. Simply get the ball off the opposition and bridge the acreage between our current midfield and the forwards.

Creative midfielders are rare in any division. Name me 10 Premiership sides with a genuine creative midfielder. I don't think we'll ever get a harder worker than Allott and Maher isn't a slouch either. The acreage between midfielders and forwards you refer to was successfully bridged by Alessandra earlier in the season. I though WIndass would do a better job, but on the whole what he gives us with the flicks we lose with the lack of movement he brings.

 

6. Ooooppps the wife wants me to stop ignoring her --------------

So know that feeling. When there's football to discuss too!

I would like to say to Shez you've got another 3 years - develop in role and improve this team - if I feel he could.

 

The reason why I wouldn't is that he will stifle the young talent with unhelpful public comment and bringing in unfit journeymen on loan to take their places in the team.

 

And if I owned the club, saw a failure to go up this season and made a decision to cut a few costs, I'd go for a manager who has a record of nurturing talent and delivering results on a shoestring.

 

But I don't know if Jim Gannon would see sending out a team in front of crowds of less than 5,000 as a step up in his managerial career.

Edited February 28, 2009 by opinions4u

[opinions4u]

duplicate post feel free to delete

Edited February 28, 2009 by opinions4u

[Stitch_KTF]

I would like to say to Shez you've got another 3 years - develop in role and improve this team - if I feel he could.

 

The reason why I wouldn't is that he will stifle the young talent with unhelpful public comment and bringing in unfit journeymen on loan to take their places in the team.

 

If shez was told he had another 3 years he probably wouldn't loan so many experienced players because he wouldn't be feeling the pressure of our 'promotion this season' ultimatum.

 

 

Also I would argue that many of the signings haven't been typical journeyman. Most have had decent pedigree for a Latics signing, even if some were disapointments.

Edited February 28, 2009 by Stitch_KTF

[penrhyn]

If shez was told he had another 3 years he probably wouldn't loan so many experienced players because he wouldn't be feeling the pressure of our 'promotion this season' ultimatum.

 

 

Also I would argue that many of the signings haven't been typical journeyman. Most have had decent pedigree for a Latics signing, even if some were disapointments.

 

All the strikers have been proven goalscorers in the past , I think we will come good someone is going to get an absolute pasting of us very soon.

[opinions4u]

If shez was told he had another 3 years he probably wouldn't loan so many experienced players because he wouldn't be feeling the pressure of our 'promotion this season' ultimatum.

There is merit to that.

 

 

Also I would argue that many of the signings haven't been typical journeyman. Most have had decent pedigree for a Latics signing, even if some were disapointments.

They weren't match fit though.

 

[JonesyOAFC]

Sacking Shez will not improve anything. There's not many good managers free at the moment, especially not managers who would be attracted by a club like us. We'll end up with a Moore-esque replacement and end up going backwards. I've not enjoyed this season at all, even though we're 5th, but at least we're up there. To be honest i'm so sick of this division that i'll take promotion over playing attractive football anyday...

[LaticNik]

1. Fast track Shez's man management skills by giving him access to some sort of mentor. It takes years to learn but we haven't got that time

2. Get rid of an over reliance on Loanees. More often than not it doesn't work, they don't have any allegiance to the club and neither me to them. We bring them in every January and come March it's gone paps up.

3. Get the players to take ownership and responsibility for standards by letting them agree what standards are acceptable and unacceptable both on and off the pitch. They may have a great dressing room rapport but that doesn't deliver results. There is currently a lack of proffessionalism, Dowie was excellent at this.

4. Shez has got to grow balls and make the difficult decisions when the standards aren't met. he's got to create the environment where efforts will be rewarded and vice verca. I used to be in the situation where nobody was doing what I was telling them, it took me a while to realise that the problem was me and I wasn't communicating effectively.

5. Get a couple of grafters in midfield. Creative midfielders are rare in this division. Simply get the ball off the opposition and bridge the acreage between our current midfield and the forwards.

 

So you've found the Faith again yet you've 5 issues above, each highlighting a weakness on Shez's behalf. He's that bad that after three years in the job you want the club to bring in a 'mentor'...aka Director of Football.

 

Think you need to read point 4 above and admit that Shez isn't the answer.

 

E4e

JSOUT