Season Tickets next season.

[Lookers_Carl]

Also worth noting,

 

I know at Everton, southend and maybe colchester, season ticket renewals are cheaper than prices for new season ticket holders. Might not solve the problems of getting new ST holders but by offering a small discount to people who renew, may help keep some of the ones we have got

[johnny punkster]

Also worth noting,

 

I know at Everton, southend and maybe colchester, season ticket renewals are cheaper than prices for new season ticket holders. Might not solve the problems of getting new ST holders but by offering a small discount to people who renew, may help keep some of the ones we have got

 

now if the "marketing dept" had thought of that 2 or 3 years ago, we might not be in this mess now!

Edited November 22, 2009 by johnny punkster

[davebuckley06]

this was a 1 minute thought of suggestion.

the figures suggested aren't exact,i'll let the proper financial types do the sums.

 

im sorry and i no its only an idea and we need ideas but this is quite rediculous. do u realy think that after 2500 (probably the amount of season tickets we have now) season tickets have been sold at 150 -200 pound that another 2-3 thousand people,most likely stay aways and non regulars, would think to them selves lets go out and spend an extra 50-100 pound for a st that half the fans have aleady got cheaper?. the only way a different price structure could work is if it gets cheaper the more are sold but then u either piss off the first 2000 who paid more or you would have nobody buying the tickets in the first place waiting for 2000 people to stupidly pay more than everyone else will do.

 

i believe the bradford offer was based on getting money back if a target was met although they would still have been reduced. i think the best way to do it would be something along the lines of (and these are jus random figures to get the point across)

 

season tickets cost £260

 

once 5000 are sold all tickets are £240

 

once 6000 are sold tickets cost £220

 

once 7000 are sold tickets cost £200

 

once 8000 are sold tickets cost £180

 

once 9000 are sold tickets cost £160

 

set a date for the cut off point say 1st august or friday before first game of season and then everyone who has paid more gets money back to bring it down to the price it should be in relation to which target has been reached

[laticjohn]

I think it needs to be a fair price not just for new ST holders, but for existing ones as well. I fear that alot of existing ST holders are not going to renew next season. That is the vibe i am getting from people sat near me in the chaddy. Like a previous post, we need to strike the right balance. We need new ST holders, but need to keep the existing ones happy as well. The ground was so empty yesterday, the atmosphere has gone. Hopefully someone from the club might read these posts and pick up some good ideas and try to explore every avenue.

[johnny punkster]

first of all,hudds had a similar scheme in place as the one i suggested.

secondly, the figures AREN'T exact,its just an example of how it would work.

lastly,didn't latics try to do your suggestion of "the more we sell the less you pay" scheme that was totally unworkable?

you have to sell 5000 before the scheme kicks in?

 

 

look at it this way...try to work a scheme on how easy jet sell their seats.

 

 

[rudemedic]

That's a good idea on paper! However, this a £300 punt we are talking about, not a £10 bet down the local bookies! I'm not sure how many new punters this would attract. The diehards would love it though.

 

I think in these hard times a price reduction is the only way ahead coupled with something to get excited about on the pitch and improved matchday experience!

 

I can no longer be classed as a die hard (for a start didn't go yesterday) but I think considering I would probably be spending £200 to go to games next season (think making 10 will be achieveable) I would be tempted to pay £100 more to see if I could get some money back depending on the odds and such. Its an idea and its a lot more achieveable than me trying to hit the cross bar having just been on two crutches for 6 months.

[real]

That brings it back towards an idea I was thinking on - sell at full price, but you buy by a certain day you get entered into a draw. Say, one in ten get the full price back, or 500 get half back, or... You could arrange it any way you fancied. It would be a reason for people to have a punt on a full price ticket, if you were thinking of it and you had say a one in five chance of getting something back? People like a gamble

 

I can see the attraction of that, but I think it has limited attraction, and it has a danger that it only gets the existing takers and reduces revenue.Few people responded to the ST for £238 if we get 4500. That was a sort of punt, but there was a guarantee that you'd win if we got 4500, would enough people pay £300 to gamble of a free ST? I don't think they would. i think it would mostly, and possibly only, be those who would have stumped up £300 anyway.

 

 

The base level is around 3000(ish). What's needed is to raise sales above that by incentives, whilst ensuring those in the base 3000 still get equal value. I'd suggest (?) that you then need to estimate what you'd lose in pay-on-the-day for each extra ST sold. I'd guess that of the first 1000 75% would pay on the day. of the next 1000 50%. (these are just my guesstimates, and tehy will vary depending on how the team is doing)

 

So for sales of 3-4000 you need to increase revenue by £18 x 23 x 1000 x 75%. Now, the problem is that it adds up to £310.5k, or £310 per ST. So, you have to accept a loss on that first 1000. That means the next 1000 become more important. For them it's £18 x 23 x £1000 x 50% = £207k.

For the total 2000 to raise from 3k to 5k, the extra revenue needed (in this model) is £517,500 (£207k + £310k) or £258 per fan.

 

 

 

[BRAT]

The club has to do something because in the current climate, and more people losing their jobs by the start of the next season, I think the club will be hard pushed to make even 2k season ticket sales at the current price structure!

 

How about if the club stops spouting all the crap about moving to manchester and spends the £20 million they get from the new houses built behind the Chaddy on building a successful team.

 

The successful team will get us promoted thereby bringing in bigger crowds which will produce more money to redevelop BP which will allow Corney to get the money he wants so he can sell to someone who is really interested in football.In the words of the merekat "Simples".

[Lookers_Carl]

How about if the club stops spouting all the crap about moving to manchester and spends the £20 million they get from the new houses built behind the Chaddy on building a successful team.

 

The successful team will get us promoted thereby bringing in bigger crowds which will produce more money to redevelop BP which will allow Corney to get the money he wants so he can sell to someone who is really interested in football.In the words of the merekat "Simples".

 

 

If only it were that simple

 

 

[johnny punkster]

another scheme that could work...

a august to dec half season ticket

a jan to may half season ticket

 

or

 

4 x 6 match tickets.

again, i'll let the financial brains work them out.

 

 

 

[leeslover]

How about if the club stops spouting all the crap about moving to manchester and spends the £20 million they get from the new houses built behind the Chaddy on building a successful team.

 

The successful team will get us promoted thereby bringing in bigger crowds which will produce more money to redevelop BP which will allow Corney to get the money he wants so he can sell to someone who is really interested in football.In the words of the merekat "Simples".

Yes, simples. Sit in a crumbling dump watching a team funded by a one-off windfall in a gamble on promotion, in the hope that we can afford to build an entire new stadium on the basis of Championship football, despite it's massively higher costs. Simples.

[real]

first of all,hudds had a similar scheme in place as the one i suggested.

secondly, the figures AREN'T exact,its just an example of how it would work.

lastly,didn't latics try to do your suggestion of "the more we sell the less you pay" scheme that was totally unworkable?

you have to sell 5000 before the scheme kicks in?

 

 

look at it this way...try to work a scheme on how easy jet sell their seats.

 

 

You've suggested we'd sell 1500-2000 extra if they could get them for £150/£200/£250.

 

That would be about 4500, which would have seen tickets at £238 this season - the trigger was 4500. It fell well short.

 

Your scheme , at 4500 sales would see revenue of £975,000, but it would take potentially 1500 people off pay on the day, of which 30-75% would probably turn up and pay.

The current sales at say 1000 x £308 (RRE) + 1300 x £328 (main & Chaddy) + 500 x £303 (paddocks) = £885,900. Only 216 (14.5%) people of the 1500 have to turn up on the day to give the same revenue.

And if we only sell 2500 the club loses at lot of money with only £475k instead of £770k at £308 each. Too risky imho.

 

 

I'm suggesting a scheme that kicks in at 3500, and keeps kicking in (you can carry on past 5500 if you want). It also reduces the risk of losses in revenue. It also rewards ALL the takers, and doesn't involve a gamble, which many would view with suspicion.

Edited November 22, 2009 by real

[davebuckley06]

first of all,hudds had a similar scheme in place as the one i suggested.

secondly, the figures AREN'T exact,its just an example of how it would work.

lastly,didn't latics try to do your suggestion of "the more we sell the less you pay" scheme that was totally unworkable?

you have to sell 5000 before the scheme kicks in?

 

 

look at it this way...try to work a scheme on how easy jet sell their seats.

 

well ye its simalar to what they tried this year but they didnt try very hard did they realy. the outline of mine for a start gives a 50 quid reuction on the current lowest price 70 quid cheaper than most of the prices so that should encourage people to do it. with the right marketing it could work although im dubious about any scheme having a big enough effect to get even 4000 sales. maybe a big signing might get more interest but were would that come from? think its more plausable than what we did last yea and because of the reasons i gave before better than your origanl one, just cant see people being willing to pay more for a ticket. might be better to get interest by starting at a higher price than that and having lower targets to get the price drop maybe £300 till a 1000 sold then 280 untill 2000 sold etc.

 

that new idea of 4 blocks of 6 could work well although i would wait till about a week before the season to announce it as it may reduce the amount of full season tickets sold

[johnny punkster]

You've suggested we'd sell 1500-2000 extra if they could get them for £150/£200/£250.

 

That would be about 4500, which would have seen tickets at £238 this season - the trigger was 4500. It fell well short.

 

Your scheme , at 4500 sales would see revenue of £975,000, but it would take potentially 1500 people off pay on the day, of which 30-75% would probably turn up and pay.

The current sales at say 1000 x £308 (RRE) + 1300 x £328 (main & Chaddy) + 500 x £303 (paddocks) = £885,900. Only 216 (14.5%) people of the 1500 have to turn up on the day to give the same revenue.

And if we only sell 2500 the club loses at lot of money with only £475k instead of £770k at £308 each. Too risky imho.

 

thanks for the figures..

couldn't you just tweak it then till you hit your initial minimum target much quicker then ?

 

so...

lose the £150 bracket, half the £200 braket and bulk up the £250 bracket to be the minimum target aimed at...

in the end, though you will lose revenue in regards to lost money per head, other things are achieved.

1/more bums on seats=more atmosphere.

2/more side sales..catering,programmes, souvenirs etc.more bodies passing means more chance of extra sales generated.

 

the fact that all latics games are 100% never filled and what are the club losing if an extra 1000+ people turn up on the cheap.

who knows..the team might get some encouragement with fuller stands = better results = more floating fans arriving...i won't go on in fear of getting carried away!

 

 

 

[real]

Something else to add to the model (not my suggestions - the stuff about base level, increases etc). Where do yuo put your limits / targets?

 

1. What is the lowest price per game you think is sensible.

Hudds went to just over £4, but the new owner paid for that. What is the lowest sensible price for an adult?

I'd say £10 is a nice target, £9 is pushing it and £8 is an absolute minimum. That makes the lowest ST target £230 or £207 or £184.

 

2. Where do you want your incentives to start?

I'd say 500 above base. And where might they end - you can go all the way to 9000 but do you really gain much by dropping the price after 7000 or 8000?

 

3. How much risk do you want?

JohnnyPunksters idea loses about £300k if we only get 3000; DaveB's could lose £48 x 3000 = £144k.

Edited November 22, 2009 by real

[johnny punkster]

that new idea of 4 blocks of 6 could work well although i would wait till about a week before the season to announce it as it may reduce the amount of full season tickets sold

 

 

the only problem there would be that people will pick their period of which quarter to have a ticket..eg

 

first quarter ...we have yeovil, brighton, walsall, wycombe,,southend and gillingham at home.

the next quarter we have leeds,hudds,stockport,tranny,norwich and charlton at home.

 

a non brainer which would be most popular

the idea would work though if :

1.before the fixtures where announced the tickets are heavily discounted

2once the fixtures came out, then the club could price accordingly..so if the above fixtures happened:

 

Q1 -£90

Q2 -£105

 

????

 

[real]

thanks for the figures..

couldn't you just tweak it then till you hit your initial minimum target much quicker then ?

 

so...

lose the £150 bracket, half the £200 braket and bulk up the £250 bracket to be the minimum target aimed at...

in the end, though you will lose revenue in regards to lost money per head, other things are achieved.

1/more bums on seats=more atmosphere.

2/more side sales..catering,programmes, souvenirs etc.more bodies passing means more chance of extra sales generated.

 

the fact that all latics games are 100% never filled and what are the club losing if an extra 1000+ people turn up on the cheap.

who knows..the team might get some encouragement with fuller stands = better results = more floating fans arriving...i won't go on in fear of getting carried away!

I'm gonna do this a bit formally so it's clear where my opinion in coming in and where it's other stuff, and where it's your idea I'm on about and where I'm speculating...

 

 

Analysis:-

Ok, let's say we get 4000 apllicants. 3000 would have done it anyway, so 75% of the people who get the 1000 £200 tickets would have paid £300. That's a lost incentive.

If you have 1000 at £200 and 4000 at £250, you get £1.2m but that requires 5000 sales. If we only get 3000 we have £700k - a loss. At 4000 we get £950k; not much above 3000 at £308 (£924k).

 

You've also brought in side sales - how much of each pie would be profit (if the club had a direct profit model)? 50p at best? How many of the extra 1000 on current match day would buy a pie? 25% 50%?

If you go with 50p and 50%, you're looking at about £6k a season. I'd suggest beer would be similar.

Programmes should be a better earner - maybe £1 a copy, maybe £1.50 so £12-18k.

Those side sales are not the big earners some people think they are.

 

Comment:-

Strike it lucky however should/could be a good earner. 10% commision/45% prize/45% to club.

Tie that into STs and you have a dual effect - extra revenue; extra prizes and MUCH bigger prizes.

 

Opinion:-

I just think anything that tries to incentivise the first 3000 (or maybe 2500) is a wasted incentive. There are a set number of people who will take up a ST come what may (and I'm one of them).

We can only use a limited budgeted to incentivise, so it should aim at those in the next group - the maybes. Meanwhile you have to ensure that group 1 do not "lose out".

[johnny punkster]

i know where you are coming from.

its all about tweaking the number to hit your minimum target asap.

the stumbling block of course is getting the numbers to buy them in the first place.

so...chuck in some sweetners...

 

for example if we sell 4000 full season tickets;

every home game a draw is made for each season ticket holder only-winner takes home £100

last home game of the season, each season ticket holder goes into a grand draw for a free season ticket the following season.

 

or...

half time draw -free cup games ticket draw for season ticket holders...paint pot,league and fa cups.

 

or...something based on the teams success -every point latics get at the end of the season(eg 70 pts),then a season ticket holders draw for that many (70) get a 25% reduction for the following season.

 

there are plenty of schemes and ideas, its just getting the figures to match i suppose..

[real]

You want an incentive. Let's use strike it lucky - it's a good earner (there're no product to pay for) and at themoment the prize level has dropped to bugger all.

 

Base ST price £300 for RRE. £320 in main £295 in paddock. Based on 3000 sales.

 

Add £20 to all of them so £320; £340; £315.

The extra £20 includes entry to strike it lucky every home game. £11.50 (50% of the £20) goes to the strike it lucky fund.

 

For every extra 500 sales, £10 off every ST. Strike it luck prize of 50p per ST Every game

Sales : Price : Prize fund : 1st : 2nd : 3rd : 4th

3000 : £320 £1500 £1000 £500

3500 : £310 £1750 £1000 £500 £250

4000 : £300 £2000 £1000 £750 £250

4500 : £290 £2250 £1000 £750 £500

5000 : £280 £2500 £1000 £750 £500 £250

5500 : £270 £2750 £1000 £750 £500 £500

 

So, STs from £320 and reducing and every ST includes the chance to win upwards of £1500 every game - a prize fund of at least £34,500 over the season. You could split the prizes at £1000 1st; £500 2nd, or whatever - I think £1k is the most you'd want to pay 1 person, then start splitting it. You can decide based on sales

Still let people join S-i-L on the day for £1, it'll just boost the prize pot.

 

 

Next incentive scheme:-

 

Night match ticket - probably will be 4 games (I'm sure the league will have a set number)- the attendances are poorer at night games, so go with the ST rate and call it £56 for the 4 games = £14 a game. Option to buy for any other night games at same rate. Option to add a kid for £8 for the 4 games; £2 for any extras.

 

Next scheme:-

 

10 match book. £17 a game. £170. (maybe drop to £160; can't go any lower as 2 books would be the same price as a ST)

 

Stop the £18 pay in advance, revert to £20 - will probably increase away fan costs and might reduce numbers but a 10% drop will see revenue stay the same.

 

 

There you go. Ok the STs are still a fair price, but there's a big prize fund attached to it. You could knock the S-i-L off and drop them all by £20. Giving £250 for 5500.

Edited November 22, 2009 by real

[davebuckley06]

the only problem there would be that people will pick their period of which quarter to have a ticket..eg

 

first quarter ...we have yeovil, brighton, walsall, wycombe,,southend and gillingham at home.

the next quarter we have leeds,hudds,stockport,tranny,norwich and charlton at home.

 

a non brainer which would be most popular

the idea would work though if :

1.before the fixtures where announced the tickets are heavily discounted

2once the fixtures came out, then the club could price accordingly..so if the above fixtures happened:

 

Q1 -£90

Q2 -£105

 

????

 

good idea i was going to say exactly that when i read the bit bowt having different quality opposition. have a basic outline of teams in different catogories and then put different prices together to create more interest if we playing worse teams.

 

differnt idea but similar. split the league into 4. top group catergory A e.g. leeds, southampton. catagory D would be the likes of wycombe, exeter etc.

 

cat A £105

cat B £97

cat C £90

cat D£73*

 

*5 games