chris_ktf

least your concern is explainable unlike others

What's been said that's unexplainable?

The heading point is one facet of his all round game.

An his all round game is dire.

exactly what ive been saying.. as a centre half myself i fancy winning 9/10 header against lads that are smaller then me, unless they're 6'2 or above a striker shouldn't stand any chance of winning headers against a CB! we should be playing it into his feet, but that's rooneys problem that he isn't creating anything himself! but please do NOT criticise a 5'10" striker for not winning a header against a 6'3 centre half!!!

Is it service, our style of play, the opposition, he's to small, he doesn't like it in the air, he doesn't like it near him. He can't see the ball properly.

Is it just not a lack of desire?

 

Pretty much, yes.

 

Look at players like Wayne Rooney, they rarely flick-on headers but are clinical heading in front of goals. It's a totally different skill. I just cannot understand how we can expect Adam to be beating 6"4 centre-halfs for headers. Ask any defender and they'll tell you a stationary header from a long ball is easy to deal with, especially when you're competing against a guy 6 inches shorter than you.

 

Where he can and should be beating players for headers is in the box where he's got forwards momentum, getting into positions that defenders can't track. He's not doing this, and when he does his headers have been off target. As O4U says, he doesn't create enough for himself.

He hasn't played man mountains every week.

I don't necessarily expect him to win every header, but I do expect him to compete. To look for the second ball, if he loses the initial header. He's very cute at giving the impression he's being lent on- he will be when he tucks himself under a guys chest. As you say he even worse in the box where his lack movement and/or anticipation is frightening. He hardly ever gambles. I've been to nearly every home game, an he's produced once. Against vale. Not good enough.

Funny...

 

When he signed there was plenty of posters on here telling the world what an amazing signing he was...

 

6 months later some of the same posters want him gone because a league 1 striker doesn't live up to the standards they set for him!

 

Pop quiz: Who is it?

A Kiegan Parker

B Adam Rooney

C Robbie Simpson

 

Same old :censored:! Different season!

The thing is with them three, they've got a modicum of talent, they have a performance in them. It's just once in a blue moon.

He's a 5"10 striker who is being expected to compete for headers against 6"3 and taller centre-backs. How his jumping or flick-ons are criticised I do not know. He's a strong man, not a tall man and LJ has to distinguish between the two. The ball needs to be played to his feet.

 

However where he is frustrating is his movement - he runs into dead ends. Comparing him to Ibehre yesterday showed me just how little Rooney participates. Ibehre came short for it, ran beyond defenders and eventually got his goal after giving the defenders a torrid time. Colchester didn't even hoofball to him either, it was measured passing to a player who made all the correct moves. I've yet to see Rooney cause half as much problems for any opposition defence.

 

There is no place for him in the team until he can give valuable contribution that MacDonald and JCH give us. MacDonald's movement is so much more smart and JCH gets into the right positions and can shield the ball.

So we don't expect him to win headers an flick ons- but we do expect him to be on the end of a cross with his head? What's the difference? Heading IMO is a massive part of a strikers game. We seem to be actively defending the fact he can't/ won't jump. He shrinks.

Both replies on about service again. Always other people's fault. The team, the set up, the manger, the service. What about him??

Credit to Johnson I think he agrees. Rooney has been played less an less. When needed a goal yesterday our main striker got subbed for a kid. I'll be stunned if they don't try an move him on in the summer.

He's been mentioned a bit on another thread, but can't believe he hasn't come in for a more thorough analysis. Can we have a debate About HIS responsibility for HIS performance. The service point is valid to a point, but to me it's totally masking the issue.

He doesn't appear to have a first touch. He can't / won't jump. He doesn't bring others in. His passing is poor. He doesn't win headers. He's lightweight. He looks 'busy' but won't challenge. He actually looks like he can't run.

Nearly all of the above are about desire. An he's got none. He's slowly morphing into keigan Parker.

For the wage he's on- the biggest dissapontment of the squad by a country mile.

Without a doubt.

These lads i.e.Mellor Winchester and Millar need our unqualified support on this public forum over the next 12 months of their development. Ok Winchester made a bad decision on the 4:1 break yesterday and Mellor had a problem,they are young lads trying to make their way in the game. What about the goal Winchester scored at BP earlier in the season.

 

I was as disappointed as anyone yesterday, but we played ok and nearly gained a very good point.Without being totally deluded happy clappers,llets get behind LJ and the boys because that's what many of them still are.

All the players are up for debate are they not? I support them by proxy- because they play for my club. But unqualified support? Are they immune from discussion? Isn't that why we all come on here? For whatever reasons these lads are hit an miss. As are others in the squad. I hope they can find some consistency, an develop into the players we hope.

35 regular appearances with runs of games can produce vastly different players than the scraps these lads have had over 3 or 4 years though.

 

There are plenty of ex Oldham players in the Championship that are testament to that

Tarky is testament to that. His development has been quality. The question is why haven't they had a decent run. Bad luck, poor form, not quite ready? If I take my rose tinted specs off, maybe they aren't as good as we think or hope.

Winchester 26 (10) - Debut 6th December 2010 Aged 17 - three seasons - Now 20

Mellor 35 (11) - Debut 9th August 2011 Aged 18 - two and a half seasons - Now 20

Millar 8 (30) - Debut 13th March 2010 -Aged 18 - Call it three and a half seasons - Now 21

 

Must admit I'm surprised that there are not more substitute appearances between Winchester and Mellor, but you can't expect kids to go from youth team to playing 46 games a season in two years. Personally I expect this season to be Millar's make or break season and next year to be Winchester or Mellor.

 

Just to put a little bit of perspective what I said above (and I agree with this stance taken by the club) about players that I think we all can agree never even looked like making it, let alone showing promise ala Mellor or Winchester.

 

Matty Wolfenden 10 (37) - Debut 15th November 2003 Aged 16 - Released 2nd May 2009 Aged 22- Call it five and a half seasons.

Kelvin Lomax 74 (20) - Debut 8th May 2004 Aged 17 - Released 1 February 2011 Aged 24 - Seven seasons

Tarky wasn't far off. Debut season in an out. Last season played a hell of a lot wiv mvoto. Undroppable this season. Generally if there good enough they do break through- certainly by the end of their second season.

Kirk. Good impact player. Bury away last season he won us the game with his assist for smith. When he starts he's disappointing, never really affects the game in the same way as he does from the bench; a la Sid. I wouldn't keep.

Mellor. IMO has had opportunities, but from the outside looking in, it's seems like a lot of varying issues. One step forward, two back. Strange one. Worth persevering.

Winchester- great squad player. Lovely touch. For me he has broken through. Or is very close. Definitely keep.

 

Makes you wonder all the more why he wasn't at least sub v Chesterfield to run at Humphreys.

Agreed. Particularly after the hour mark, where Johnson kept looking down the touchline looking for a bit of inspiration.

If you need a defensive shift, an a full ninety minutes, don't pick him. If you need him to change a game or give the side fresh impetus, bring him on.

In short. Impact player. A very good one for our level.

Although it's been done already I'd like to return to this point. We have as big and hard a back 4 as we have perhaps ever had. Is Tarky soft? Is Lanzoni a wilting violet? Would you call Kasunga's pint a puff? Smith is tough. Wes is mega-tough. JCH and Rooney aren't a pair of tarts. So basically our wingers and Philli aren't nails. And Bove hasn't even been mentioned yet.

Agree with the vast majority of that- but Rooney is a tart. I know he's not a target man but he's up there with keigan Parker for the ability to 'look busy' without doing sweet FA.

Don't care that there's no trip to Wembley?! To concentrate on what exactly? Push for the playoffs or promotion? FA Cup? Really?

Spot on. Our best chance (gone) at some silverware this season IMO.

Gutted with t'nite. Really fancied us before hand. Beating Mansfield is great for the coffers.

But a day out at anfield or possibly wembley? No brainier for me.

I'd rather us use our own talent than these. Mellor is miles better than Plummer. If we have a squad full of players like him we would struggle to compete in the Conference North.

Spot on.

I've only seen him once or twice this season but I think he looks good when given the ball in the right areas. Like I said, he wasn't even on scraps yesterday.

I've seen him a fair amount, and while the service point is spot on. His all round game more often than not is really poor. JCH got no service yesterday but he made impact when he came on. Philip got moved out to the left an yet all our work came through him. Both of them are strikers but when things aren't going there way, they don't drift out of the game. Rooney does. He can't be solely reliant on others to have a good game, surely he's got to take some responsibility for his own game?

Clearly he was poor because he had absolutely no service whatsoever. He had hardly a ball of quality fired in at him. I can't recall a match that was utterly devoid of a single decent cross. Smeltz in particular was the worst culprit for this.

 

Sorry, can't apportion any blame to Rooney. :censored:ing Wayne Rooney would have looked equally as hopeless.

Do you rate him from what you've seen?

What is it with Rooney? He was so poor today, but now an again he really looks the part. Port Vale springs to mind. He has bagged a few, an yet more often than not he is completely ineffective. Perplexing.

 

 

Go on opinion sharing website

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Pretend you didnt care anyway[/quote

 

Right.

 

Have you got a particular problem with me?

 

Three times on this thread you've made it about me. Not a difference of opinion.

 

What I couldn't give a toss about is petty points scoring, you've trawled this thread days after the last post was made, found an incorrect line( which was an honest mistake an general point about their footballing background) an implied I'm an liar. For what? Does that make you feel better about yourself? Pathetic.

 

Ignoring the fact that that isn't the truth.

Are you bored? I couldn't give a toss. You think Baxter is better. I don't.

E I E I E I O. . .

The one thing that seperates him from others is his ability to be part of the group but also their manager. Very hard. Dickov- to matey. Ronnie- to much of a manager. If you can mix the two; where players like you, but respect you, your onto a good thing. He isn't afraid to big calls, but tempers that with arm round the shoulder. Very clever. To early to say anything. . But the signs are positive.

E I E I E I O. .

 

Its not just goals scored though is it? If he creates as many too. And if he gives people that feeling that you got when Jose was playing. That feeling you get that something could happen, that gets you excited.

 

Seemingly a fair few people were not getting that feeling with Jose Baxter, and if they weren't getting it with him then they aren't going to get it. And for those people I feel really sorry because football must be a pretty boring.

 

Philliskirk seems a decent player. And I hope by the end of this season he has scored more than Baxter did for us, and created more. But when when he gets the ball, I don't get excited. I don't feel like he is going to do something special. And I felt that when Jose got the ball, because he had that in his locker.

 

Lets put it quite simply... Danny Philliskirk hasn't even got a song yet (not even people shouting "Philly! Philly!") Baxter had it after 2 half games. And if he signed back for us tomorrow, this poll would be 100% in Joses favour.

I understand what your saying, an for the most I'd agree. However goals is one of the main things that you can compare forwards on. My point is even if Philly get 12 goals, that only 3 short of Jose, an not bad for someone as not seen in Jose class. It's just interesting to me that Jose is rated by some as a farrr superior player. . When in truth, both spent time at prem club academy, were let go- an play in the same division, is he really that much better? Not for me.

We all like flair players like Baxter. They are good to watch- they are also incredibly frustrating. IMO you had to put with sulking, poor work rate, an trying to win games on his own- hoping for the moment of Magic. Philly isn't as exciting to watch, but makes for that with his workrate, and teamplay.

Different players- that could end up with similar goals count.