help_shiny

that 1924 jock reporter sure had a way with words

methinks he's talking about Zenit. As for people looking forward to getting in amongst them today - yeuuurrggh. Savages, all of 'em.

I looked at dead people and then went and got drunk. Had a random female throw up on my shoes. * - They were mummies at the British Museum - not the poor people in my cellar.

I think the motto/tag line idea is a good one. I was thinking earlier about Keighley RL - does anyone remember their 'Cougarmania'? Club bods - you could do worse than check how Keighley got everyone going - the whole place was mad for the club for a few years until (I think, some true RL fan might be able to put me right) Super League said they couldnt come in.

I was thinking that it probably worked out well for Schalke having the cards because casual visitors buy a card, stick some money on it and end up not spending every last Euro. I know we did. Yes, agree with the atmosphere - the one at Schalke was great, even though the match wasnt up to much we all loved the experience. I think the Germans have got the perfect mix of the English & Italian styles of support (the good parts that is!). If all goes well I'm back off out there later this year - Dortmund or Frankfurt , probably Dortmund. My brother was at 1860 last year and he also said it seemed very flat.

I'm afraid so - he really blotted his copybook there

actually, I've been up since 5:20 and am quite tired so could we give the duel a miss? From Lesbo Pinko Newsheet (guardian): I DID IT MY WAY Dr Thaksin's Krazy Guide To Fair Play*: How To Sneak Your Team Into Euro Vase (with a little help from Human Rights Watch) 1) Become prime minister of Thailand. 2) Declare war on the horrifying drug trade by issuing the following horrifying statement: "There is nothing under the sun which the Thai police cannot do." 3) Sigh in contentment as 87 people are killed in the first week of the war on drugs. Practise Frank Sinatra impression. 4) Open the papers to discover that the latest victim of the war on drugs is a nine-year-old shot when police fired at a car carrying him and his mother (police claim a third party shot at the victim's car). Do not reflect on how fair it is for a nine-year-old to get a bullet in the skull. Instead, practise Frank Sinatra impression. 5) Listen as a UN official expresses "deep concern at reports of more than 100 deaths in Thailand in connection with a crackdown on the drug trade". 6) Fire off memo reading: "Do not worry about this. The UN is not my father." 7) Declare "victory" on war on drugs. Ignore the 2,275 people that have been killed in said war. Ruminate on fact that since the start of the campaign homicide rate in Thailand has doubled. Practise Frank Sinatra impression. 8) Read US state department report that Thailand's human rights record has "worsened with regard to extrajudicial killings and arbitrary arrests". Practise Frank Sinatra impression. 9) Dismiss the United States an "annoying friend". Pesky Americans! 10) Decide to restore battered international standing by identifying sleeping giant. 11) Check sleeping giant isn't a drug dealer. 12) Pass Premier League's fit and proper person's test with flying colours despite Amnesty International saying that "Thaksin did preside over some very serious human rights violations". 13) Watch as Human Rights FC do the double over Manchester United. Try to ignore ghost of nine-year-old child whispering in your ear by humming upbeat version of Blue Moon. 14) Make moves to sack perfectly good manager despite the fact that his players, the fans, Bob Carolgees and 99.789% of the population of the universe thinks he is doing a good job. 15) Smile in satisfaction as it looks like your team will be given a place in next season's Euro Vase for, get this, FAIR PLAY!!!!!!!!! 16) Relax in warm bath of chutzpah and irony whistling My Way. *Fair Play may involve extra-judicial killings and knee-jerk sackings of competent, if unspectacular, managers.

I challenge you to a duel sir. That is a very unfair use of the 'titanic rule' - your post = England were top, it was still going on. my post - England have won it. your post = other clubs mentioned. mine post= it's practically City's. Top of Oldham Edge at midnight. Chose your weapons

I know

England have won a 'fair play' place in the hopelessly overblown UEFA Cup and unfortunately it's our chums from down the road who are going to get it - unless they get a load sent off on Sunday of course.

although saying that the very best set up I've ever seen is at Rochdale. Maybe there is something to be said for League 2 obscurity

going off on a tangent .....the queues for stuff is a common problem at football grounds. Anyone who has been to a few games at the so called super new Wembley will know what it's like getting a beer there. The worst I've ever seen was at Old Trafford (for the RL Grand Final I hasten to add). I was at Schalke a couple of months ago and saw the future - the only accepted currency in the stadium is a Knappenkarte - they sell these cards at booths around the stadium, you put money onto them. You then go to the beer stall and they have one person pouring the drinks, another to hand them out and you slot your card into a machine and the credit is removed. It's actually possible to stroll out at the halftime whistle, get a beer, get a hotdog or whatever, drink your beer, eat your sausage and get back to your seat in time for the kick off in a place with 61000 people in it.

"God knows what Division 4 is like (they probably play with gay abandon in the most exciting league in the world)"

I understand why permanently lower ticket prices doesnt grab everyone as a good idea but the only club that has tried it has turned the corner financially - I really hope Bradford get promoted next season, more chairmen will start to look at it. I dont think the Huddersfield situation is the same as they've set them so low that they know they'll make a loss but dont care.

and yes - many of those clubs happened upon people who like throwing money at them but my point is we're not necessarily doomed to continue this spiral into obscurity

come on Suicideistas! We're not necessarily doomed to having bob crowds. It's also meaningless to talk about how many we pulled in when we were in the Premier League - that division is radically different now, if we were in it now we wouldnt be getting the same crowds. In recent history we have bettered at least 9 (maybe more?) of the current Premier League clubs when it has come to average attendances - did those clubs just give up and die when they werent pulling in as many as the mighty Oldham? No they didnt. From the 90's through to today we have beaten the following clubs - some for a few years, and many for a lot more than that: Derby Middlesbrough Birmingham Blackburn Reading Fulham Bolton Portsmouth Wigan If we had some success the missing thousands would return. As we cant take success for granted (it'd be insane to do so) then we have to do other things to pull them in. Complaining about our crap support and hinting at cutbacks just as you are trying to sell ST's for next year is probably not a good idea.

I seriously toyed with watching the sport over the past couple of years but have mostly given it up due to time constraints - Apart from football I've also fully embraced Baseball - I'd have to give up my job and my loved ones to fit another one in. I do still catch the occasional game - if you give it time it really draws you in, I think it's a great sport. If I lived out there I'd definitely go along. I love the way Melbourne is just swamped by AFL - so many clubs and some really great crowds. The team I attached my banner to are Kangaroos or North Melbourne or whatever they're calling themselves at the moment. Plucky underdogs playing in blue. They were seriously flirting with the idea of moving to Queensland werent they? Not sure if thats a complete dead duck now or not. I'm not sure I could go along with the 'greatest game in the world' claim though - you've gone native mate!

further to bt's ciggy analogy.....what if they put some crack into the pies, have 'em coming back for more week after week.

further to the capacity/costing thing - what is our new home fan capacity for next season? About 9200? Surely they could have a good stab at filling that. Maybe not with half price tickets but something darn close to that. What was the average home attendance minus away fans for last season? Something around 5000?? edit - and yes, that would mean no improvement with the amount of money coming in as gate money/ST money but they would sell more merchandise, more food, more programmes, more beer and they'd have a good chance of adding lots more fans for the future.

why dont we have the capacity? How many season tickets are they going to sell this summer? If you halved the price and doubled the amount sold you're back in the same position but with a much fuller ground and you'd sell a shed more other stuff. Bigger crowds and a bigger atmosphere would then attract other people along etc etc. Every game next season as you look around all the empty seats in our 3 sided ground - think on, they could have been all filled. It's better to have those seats occupied by someone paying half price than have them empty. Another thing with the capacity - it didnt need to be so low anyway, knocking a stand down just to have things nice and ready for some unknown date in the future is completely the decision of the club, not something forced upon them.

Bradford say they're on target to make a small profit - after 8 consecutive big losses - and that's by charging people next to nowt. If Bradford can do it I cant see why we cant. Historically they're no bigger than us - yes Bradford is a bigger place than Oldham but for various reasons they havent pulled in the fans - Leeds Utd,Bradford Bulls, Bradford PA back in the day etc etc. It is only in the 00's that their crowds have outstripped ours. Before that every single decade since the war we have pulled in more fans than them. By having such cheap tickets they have just racked up their 7th highest average attendance since the war - and that's with a cack League 2 side. As for people not coming back when the offer runs out - why does the offer have to finish. I'm sure Bradford's ST prices are going to be set low for years to come. Cheap footy - it's the future!

I seem to remember us spending 17 consecutive seasons or so in what is now the Championship with crowds that were worse than most (and when we left it, it was in the upwards direction). Yes we might spend an eternity in the bottom two but it is not a given - if you cant dream, whats the point? I'm sure that if the internet had existed in the 60's message boards like this would have been chocker with people saying 'let's face it, we're bottom two divisions for ever, we dont stand a chance, we're all doooooomed. Stop slagging off Ken - he's the only one who can save us" etc etc

IF we ever got promoted (something which wont actually happen - we're doomed to stay in this one until the very end of time itself) I think we'd average over 9k easily. Blackpool must be knocking on for an average close to 9k and they're hamstrung by having a small capacity and a 3 sided ground. Oh, hold on..........

I think it can only be a small minority who genuinely want to slate Corney. I dont, he's obviously trying his upmost but the club can do so much more.

yes we were pulling in crowds that in todays age look quite poor but football is massively more popular as a spectator sport now than it was then. In the two Premier League seasons we were 21st out of 22nd teams but in this day and age that would be in the Wigan/Portsmouth bracket - knocking on for 20k a match.