mikejh45 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) Looking back to Saturday against Cheltenham, what are the views of fellow pundits/fans/moaners/whingers etc. (decide honestly which one group you belong to) regarding the 4 experienced players who are up for contract renewal and how they played? Crossley - Good game, some excellent saves, good organising, punched out some good crosses, missed one in the first half which almost cost us. KEEP. McDonald - Lots of effort but nothing to show for it. Like him when he is on his game, but can be anonymous. RELUCTANT RELEASE. Stam - Good game for me and unlucky to be taken off. Saved on the line and also put in a last man block tackle to prevent a clear shot on goal. KEEP. Liddle - Ah yes - Liddle. Not going to say much about Liddle except I saw nothing on Saturday that made me change my opinion. Other people have voiced their opinion on here over the weekend and would appear to back up my thoughts. RELEASE. KEEP THE FAITH Edited April 28, 2008 by mikejh45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Looking back to Saturday against Cheltenham, what are the views of fellow pundits/fans/moaners/whingers etc. (decide honestly which one group you belong to) regarding the 4 experienced players who are up for contract renewal and how they played? Crossley - Good game, some excellent saves, good organising, punched out some good crosses, missed one in the first half which almost cost us. KEEP. McDonald - Lots of effort but nothing to show for it. Like him when he is on his game, but can be anonymous. RELUCTANT RELEASE. Stam - Good game for me and unlucky to be taken off. Saved on the line and also put in a last man block tackle to prevent a clear shot on goal. KEEP. Liddle - Ah yes - Liddle. Not going to say much about Liddle except I saw nothing on Saturday that made me change my opinion. Other people have voiced their opinion on here over the weekend and would appear to back up my thoughts. RELEASE. KEEP THE FAITH crossley will be offered another deal,as he is openly stating he wants to get promoted with us and bring through his successor,great pro mcdonald,if rumours are true he is rejecting our offer in favour of other clubs so be it.on his day he can be brilliant,but he hasnt been on his day consistantly enough,good squad player at best stam again,prone to mistakes and injuries,although this season he has done ok with knocks,wouldnt be offering him a long deal,12 month at the most be a good squad player liddell,not seen enough this season,however i would be tempted to offer him a 12 month deal tied to coaching,his experience for our kids is invaluable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) crossley will be offered another deal,as he is openly stating he wants to get promoted with us and bring through his successor,great pro mcdonald,if rumours are true he is rejecting our offer in favour of other clubs so be it.on his day he can be brilliant,but he hasnt been on his day consistantly enough,good squad player at best stam again,prone to mistakes and injuries,although this season he has done ok with knocks,wouldnt be offering him a long deal,12 month at the most be a good squad player liddell,not seen enough this season,however i would be tempted to offer him a 12 month deal tied to coaching,his experience for our kids is invaluable. I don't really see a role anywhere for him. If Taylor plays right/left midfield then Liddle is 3rd/2nd choice in that position. Personally, I would use the £?-grand a week he is on to be put towards getting the best players we can afford in the vacant positions available. Edited April 28, 2008 by mikejh45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I don't really see a role anywhere for him. If Taylor plays right/left midfield then Liddle is 3rd/2nd choice in that position. Personally, I would use the £?-grand a week he is on to be put towards getting the best players we can afford in the vacant positions available. Mike considering how often you whinge about 'Liddle' I would have thought you could spell his name by now! I made a point of watching Liddell a little more closely than normal on Saturday, wondering if I hadnt noticed this decline so many on here have. For me he is the same player he was 3 years ago.....on Saturday we got what he always gives which some (including John Sheridan) value whilst others dont, seemingly prefering young athletes to talented footballers. I can only recall one mistake where he was slow to get the ball out of his feet and a promising looking attack broke down. I can also recall a few times where his touch and control helped him maintain possession despite recieving an awkard pass, and him always being available to recieve the ball. Did he have a hand in the first goal??? It was far from a classic Lidds performance but remember he is coming back from injury and it was a nothing game. He is going to be here next season and im looking forward to see him helping us go for promotion after a full pre-season. He isnt here for a pay day he is here to play football so get behind him. If as I reckon he ends up with a more central, impact role chances are he will be effective and good to watch. Not to mention the experience and guidance he brings to our young, developing, athletic squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) Mike considering how often you whinge about 'Liddle' I would have thought you could spell his name by now! I made a point of watching Liddell a little more closely than normal on Saturday, wondering if I hadnt noticed this decline so many on here have. For me he is the same player he was 3 years ago.....on Saturday we got what he always gives which some (including John Sheridan) value whilst others dont, seemingly prefering young athletes to talented footballers. I can only recall one mistake where he was slow to get the ball out of his feet and a promising looking attack broke down. I can also recall a few times where his touch and control helped him maintain possession despite recieving an awkard pass, and him always being available to recieve the ball. Did he have a hand in the first goal??? It was far from a classic Lidds performance but remember he is coming back from injury and it was a nothing game. He is going to be here next season and im looking forward to see him helping us go for promotion after a full pre-season. He isnt here for a pay day he is here to play football so get behind him. If as I reckon he ends up with a more central, impact role chances are he will be effective and good to watch. Not to mention the experience and guidance he brings to our young, developing, athletic squad. Can't see him in this central, impact role you referred to. Liddell (see, I do pick up eventually) is too slow and not 'hard' enough for the job. We need a serious contender to work with Allott, someone can tackle, run with the ball and pass. Unfortunately, Liddell only does the last bit. I also think we are in danger of financially overloading the coaching department with ageing players because we don't want to let them go. Allott can now become the father-figure on and off the pitch. If I thought he benefitted the team, I would certainly get behind him. I just don't see what you see. Edited April 28, 2008 by mikejh45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrabanana Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 McDonald - Lots of effort but nothing to show for it. Like him when he is on his game, but can be anonymous. RELUCTANT RELEASE. can't beleive you just said that father Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Can't see him in this central, impact role you referred to. Liddell (see, I do pick up eventually) is too slow and not 'hard' enough for the job. We need a serious contender to work with Allott, someone can tackle, run with the ball and pass. Unfortunately, Liddell only does the last bit. I also think we are in danger of financially overloading the coaching department with ageing players because we don't want to let them go. Allott can now become the father-figure on and off the pitch. If I thought he benefitted the team, I would certainly get behind him. I just don't see what you see. arent most coaches in the game in this day and age ageing players (shez,tommy wright,dux,tony p)and many other teams also have the same set up. i would much rather a player whos been there and done it try to teach the kids of the future how to play rather than a sports graduate from university....plus there wage demands would be different as coaches as opposed to players..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) can't beleive you just said that father Reality check, daughter. Edited April 28, 2008 by mikejh45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 arent most coaches in the game in this day and age ageing players (shez,tommy wright,dux,tony p)and many other teams also have the same set up. i would much rather a player whos been there and done it try to teach the kids of the future how to play rather than a sports graduate from university....plus there wage demands would be different as coaches as opposed to players..... Ed. There must be a point where there are no more coaching boots to be filled. What should the club do, create an extra space within the coaching staff? I think the kids that have progressed from Philliskirk to Duxbury to Sheriden/Wright have done well so far. Do we look next year at bringing Gregan on to the coaching staff? Because if on-field activity is anything to go by, then he is enormously influential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) Can't see him in this central, impact role you referred to. Liddell (see, I do pick up eventually) is too slow and not 'hard' enough for the job. We need a serious contender to work with Allott, someone can tackle, run with the ball and pass. Unfortunately, Liddell only does the last bit. I also think we are in danger of financially overloading the coaching department with ageing players because we don't want to let them go. Allott can now become the father-figure on and off the pitch. If I thought he benefitted the team, I would certainly get behind him. I just don't see what you see. Maybe if you watched Lidds a little more closely you would have picked up sooner? Or cant you bare to watch?? I wasn't suggesting Lidds is our new box to box midfielder, I meant central as a support striker if you like where he can use his passing and guile to open up defences as he has in the past. I feel im the only one who ever defends Lidds on here surely somebody else could do for a change....Mike probably thinks im picking on him! Or maybe maybe I (and Shez) am wrong and Lidds is a useless has been..... Ed. There must be a point where there are no more coaching boots to be filled. What should the club do, create an extra space within the coaching staff? I think the kids that have progressed from Philliskirk to Duxbury to Sheriden/Wright have done well so far. Do we look next year at bringing Gregan on to the coaching staff? Because if on-field activity is anything to go by, then he is enormously influential. Agree with that but I reckon Greegs might play on a couple more seasons yet, with whoever. Edited April 28, 2008 by Stitch_KTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Stam - Good game for me and unlucky to be taken off. Saved on the line and also put in a last man block tackle to prevent a clear shot on goal. KEEP. Interesting. I thought Stam was terrible on Saturday, and was in serious danger of handing the victory to Cheltenham. I'd keep him, but only as cover for Gregan/Hazell (and that's based on his season, not just Saturday). As for Crossley, Macdonald and Liddell... Crossley is a DEFINITE keep, with - as he's said himself - a new keeper as cover/potential replacement. I think his presence in the dessing room is HUGE (in more ways than one... ). Macdonald - KEEP, his attitude is excellent, and he'll keep fighting for his place even if he isn't a first team regular. And he does pop up with the odd superb goal. Liddell - Another major presence in the dressing room, a fine mentor for the likes of Smalley and Alessandra. Definite KEEP, on a one year deal loaded towards appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLatics Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 If we're deciding whether players get a new contract on the basis of one game something isn't right. For me, they'd all get contracts. Macca wouldn't be in the side, something he may already foresee, but he's a very good back-up. I just think there's other players out there that have more bite about them, and can do what he does just as, if not more, effective. Stam could sadly find himself on the bench. I was dreading Gregan's return, but he's been absolutely fantastic; just as though he's back on loan with us. I'm sure we all remember those defensive displays he put in for us. However, Stam's been very good, too. A few shaky performances, but every player has a few of those a season. I think his importance was highlighted against Swindon at home, when Gregan was still out: he gives us height, whereas Hazell shines in other areas. Unfortunately, I don't see Eardley in the midfield next season - even though he's done fairly well - as Hazell doesn't shine at full-back, which is Stam's key to first-team action. Crossley's done very well, in my opinion. He's reliable, brings a wealth of experience and hasn't really made too many shocking errors. He gets a little too much stick, to be fair. Liddell does so much more than deliver very good crosses. He's forever talking to our young lads, something the other experiences players, excluding Allott, fail to do. Shez called out for leaders when we didn't have a team; Lids is one of them, in my eyes. He's alert, always putting the lads into position when we're defending, and also offers a lot going forward. He might not have the pace, but he's by far one of our most intelligent lads. He can also chip in with a few goals. However, Tayls and Smalley, out wide, are terrorising. Those 2 lads are his main competitors. I don't know how Andy'll done during nexy year's campaign. He may not have the stamina to last 46-52 games, so there'll be times he needs a rest, but as I see it, he's key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) I can only recall one mistake where he was slow to get the ball out of his feet and a promising looking attack broke down. Lol, you mean when he was clean through on goal but decided it was yet another open space he couldn't bring himself to run into to. I swear that he's agrophobic! And he also showed why Davies was getting so much stick for going to the wing earlier in the season....coz Lids had Smalley doing exactly the same. We'd get the ball...break from defence, he'd limp over the halfway line and see space to run forward into but instead slips the ball in behind the full back but down the wing....forcing a forward to go onto the wing to recover it and leaving us short in the middle. Lids on the wing must be the easiest player in League One to defend against....it's so obvious what he's going to do. Was a typical, non-effective performance from him, IMO. On the other hand, Stam was my MOTM. Thought he was excellent....however like he was vs Udders, it could be down to lesser quality in opposition. Trickier attackers probably do cause the mistakes in him. Either way, I'd be keeping Stam. McD....didn't notice him much at all. Crossley....made a mistake in the first half which Stam cleared off the line but redeemed himself in the second with a quality save. That's why he's at our level....but he's more consistent than not. Only Lids and McD that I wouldn't be upset to see go....but if they stay, then I think they'd be useful squad players for the midfield (Lids is not a RW anymore!) They'd be the sort of player who can play from the bench and be effective. If they don't like that....I hope they don't sign and I wish them all the best! Edited April 28, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Lol, you mean when he was clean through on goal but decided it was yet another open space he couldn't bring himself to run into to. I swear that he's agrophobic! And he also showed why Davies was getting so much stick for going to the wing earlier in the season....coz Lids had Smalley doing exactly the same. We'd get the ball...break from defence, he'd limp over the halfway line and see space to run forward into but instead slips the ball in behind the full back but down the wing....forcing a forward to go onto the wing to recover it and leaving us short in the middle. Lids on the wing must be the easiest player in League One to defend against....it's so obvious what he's going to do. Was a typical, non-effective performance from him, IMO. He wasnt through on goal.....dont you sit in the chaddy?? The rest I dont buy in to....Lids plays the ball where the attacker needs/wants/can get it. A ball to suit the makings of their run. Porter didnt suffer from being dragged onto the wing did he? Nope, he stood in the middle and was made to look good (and made rich!) by league ones easiest player to mark, and run away assists leader. Interesting theory though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) He wasnt through on goal.....dont you sit in the chaddy?? The rest I dont buy in to....Lids plays the ball where the attacker needs/wants/can get it. A ball to suit the makings of their run. Porter didnt suffer from being dragged onto the wing did he? Nope, he stood in the middle and was made to look good (and made rich!) by league ones easiest player to mark, and run away assists leader. Interesting theory though. You weren't on about the first half then? When he was through on goal and ###### out! Haha....you're STILL touting the "runaway assists leader" line....brilliant! Oh....and it was Warne who was doing that running onto the wing...leaving Porter in the middle to do his thing. If you think Lids isn't "obvious" then you really are blinkered. You could call it "keeping it simple"....I'd like him to actually keep it effective. 3 months in 3 years he has been....the rest has been garbage! Edited April 28, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) He wasnt through on goal.....dont you sit in the chaddy?? He was through, he was nearer to goal than their last defender although he wasn't "clean through". Instead of running towards the goal he shielded it back and passed it, he probably knew he couldn't out run their defender. I just don't know if Lids has the legs anymore. Edited April 28, 2008 by Bring Back Pukka Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 You weren't on about the first half then? When he was through on goal and ###### out! Haha....you're STILL touting the "runner away assists leader" line....brilliant! Oh....and it was Warne who was doing that running onto the wing...leaving Porter in the middle to do his thing. If you think Lids isn't "obvious" then you really are blinkered. You could call it "keeping it simple"....I'd like him to actually keep it effective. 3 months in 3 years he has been....the rest has been garbage! He what out?? His first touch let him down which is rare, And yes I am STILL touting the impressive stat Lidds achieved during his last full(ish) season because it carries a damn sight more weight than your opinion, or mine for that matter. Tell me, since when arent crosses/passes which lead to goals (assists then) effective?? I expect Shez who knows a lot more about football AND Andy Liddell than most of us combined will attempt to retain him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) He was through, he was nearer to goal than their last defender although he wasn't "clean through". Instead of running towards the goal he shielded it back and passed it, he probably knew he couldn't out run their defender. I just don't know if Lids has the legs anymore. What the difference between through and clean through?? He was neither, maybe someone like Davies could have got clean through, the average player could not. Lidds definatley not....thats not part of his game. If it was he probably wouldnt have been anywhere near BP for years! Maybe we should look at Dwayne Chambers instead? Get Lidds in a 'Sheringham Role' and watch him cruise up that assists league again, Hughes will love it. Edited April 28, 2008 by Stitch_KTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) He what out?? His first touch let him down which is rare, And yes I am STILL touting the impressive stat Lidds achieved during his last full(ish) season because it carries a damn sight more weight than your opinion, or mine for that matter. Tell me, since when arent crosses/passes which lead to goals (assists then) effective?? I expect Shez who knows a lot more about football AND Andy Liddell than most of us combined will attempt to retain him. As I've said...he's been effective for 3mths in 3yrs....that ain't acceptable, unless you're easily pleased! As for Shez.....IMO he's keeping Lids for his off-the-field help more than on it. Hence lines like "you need players to hear other voices other than your own" when he was talking about Liddell. Lids wants to keep on playing though....I expect Shez has told him it won't be as a regular first XI next season so he had to offer the coaching side to it. I can see how Lids would help us off the field....a damn sight more than on it. If he is intent on playing on regularly though...it won't be with us. I'm expecting his decision will reflect that. PS Will you STILL be using that line next season if he stays and plays. When he's ineffective as he's been this season when he's been playing....how many seasons should we give him just coz for 3mths he earned his wage? Edited April 28, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) What the difference between through and clean through?? He was neither, maybe someone like Davies could have got clean through, the average player could not. Lidds definatley not....thats not part of his game. If it was he probably wouldnt have been anywhere near BP for years! Maybe we should look at Dwayne Chambers instead? Get Lidds in a 'Sheringham Role' and watch him cruise up that assists league again, Hughes will love it. He was through because there was no one in between him and their keeper. He wasn't clean through because there was a defender right on his back. But it doesn't matter, in that position I'd expect any footballer to run towards goal, regardless of speed. Edited April 28, 2008 by Bring Back Pukka Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Now, now, children. A question for you. We are all in agreement that irrespective of the quality of the opposition when we played and outplayed Huddersfield recently. Could Liddell improve on the starting line-up/performance that day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 As I've said...he's been effective for 3mths in 3yrs....that ain't acceptable, unless you're easily pleased! And you STILL keep touting that mere opinion of yours which is, quite frankly, ######. As for Shez.....IMO he's keeping Lids for his off-the-field help more than on it. Hence lines like "you need players to hear other voices other than your own" when he was talking about Liddell. Lids wants to keep on playing though....I expect Shez has told him it won't be as a regular first XI next season so he had to offer the coaching side to it. I can see how Lids would help us off the field....a damn sight more than on it. If he is intent on playing on regularly though...it won't be with us. I'm expecting his decision will reflect that. PS Will you STILL be using that line next season if he stays and plays. When he's ineffective as he's been this season when he's been playing....how many seasons should we give him just coz for 3mths he earned his wage? I wonder why Shez played him on Saturday then, whilst we had probably our strongest bench of the season.....he'l be in better nick to perform come August than he is now! And no that 'line' I use wont be valid next season. It is now because it is relevant to his last extended run in the team. Between now and then he can be judged again, or deemed too injury prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 A question for you. We are all in agreement that irrespective of the quality of the opposition when we played and outplayed Huddersfield recently. Could Liddell improve on the starting line-up/performance that day? Interesting one. No, almost definitely not. However what he can do is create a vital chance or two in those games where we're not playing quite so well. People seem obsessed with the fact he can't run. He seemed to do ok on Saturday, and despite it being prettymuch a nothing game for us I didn't see him shirking many challenges. And besides, his qualities are in his head and his right foot, not his legs. And I'll say it again - he still has more quality in his head and right foot than the rest of the squad (bar Hughes) put together. I doubt he'll exactly be an ever present next season, but I'm hoping for more games than this season, and some vital contributions in vital games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Now, now, children. A question for you. We are all in agreement that irrespective of the quality of the opposition when we played and outplayed Huddersfield recently. Could Liddell improve on the starting line-up/performance that day? Could he? Yes. Would he? Probably not. Can he regularly contribute to good team performances? Yes Would Lidds have improved the performance against Hartlepool at home?? Definatley, possibly even with the injury he was carrying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 And you STILL keep touting that mere opinion of yours which is, quite frankly, ######. I wonder why Shez played him on Saturday then, whilst we had probably our strongest bench of the season.....he'l be in better nick to perform come August than he is now! And no that 'line' I use wont be valid next season. It is now because it is relevant to his last extended run in the team. Between now and then he can be judged again, or deemed too injury prone. Because it was a nothing game and he had more fitness than those coming back from injury who were on the bench. Anyway, it'll be refreshing to hear how else you defend him next season when he serves up the same rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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