leeslover Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 About time. He has had two decent spells with the bat for England but has underachieved otherwise, and he thinks he is the world's greatest captain on account of one amazing series win which we managed by the skin of our teeth with an exceptional set of players all at the top of their game. Good riddance, wannabe Yorkshire boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Yep, but I'm not buying the story that Colly resigned voluntarily too...he was asked to go. Morris said he called Colly after Vaughan stepped down, and Colly offered his resignaton too. There's no way Colly said 'oh...wow...what a coincidence, I was about to pack it in too'. The ECB, rightly, want a captain for both the test and one day side, who of course will be KP. A new captain and new dynamic...how about this for a team then for the Oval? Cook Key Bell Shah Pietersen* Collingwood Flintoff Foster Harmison Jones Panesar I can see Monty going too soon, for Rashid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukka Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) About time. He has had two decent spells with the bat for England but has underachieved otherwise, and he thinks he is the world's greatest captain on account of one amazing series win which we managed by the skin of our teeth with an exceptional set of players all at the top of their game. Good riddance, wannabe Yorkshire boy. Agree with the batting comments. I think you are unfair about his captaincy. He's been a great captain. I bet his players will tell you the same. He led England to its biggest triumph in a long time. Australia were hammering everyone at the time too. His record is much better than just that though. "In 2003, after the drawn series against South Africa, England toured South Asia, beating Bangladesh but losing to Sri Lanka. But in 2004, England were unbeaten, winning eleven matches and drawing two, including an England record of eight consecutive victories. They beat the West Indies away for the first time since 1968. They then won all seven home Tests against New Zealand and the West Indies, before beating South Africa away for the first time since 1965. In the 2005 home season, England easily beat Bangladesh in a two-Test series, before facing Australia for the Ashes." Michael Vaughan was a great England captain who has stayed on one series too long. "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a villain." Harvey Dent Edited August 3, 2008 by pukka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Definitely thin you are being harsh there. As a captain be won 51% of all tests, which is pretty damn good. It said on SSN that he is ranked 5th in the all time list of captains who have over 35 tests. The only better captains (win % wise) are Ricky Ponting, Steve Waugh, Viv Richards and Mark Taylor. Not bad company to be in! The next England captain will not be as good as the last England captain I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 3, 2008 Author Share Posted August 3, 2008 Fair points, but he took over at the perfect time. For years we had a losing attitude, Nasser Hussain and Duncan Fletcher deserve a huge amount of the credit for turning that around. Vaughan came in as we were on the up, and it was his good fortune to be captain of a team with Flintoff, S Jones, Mummy's Boy and Hoggard all on fire at the same time. You could counter that he brought it out of them, but I think it was the strategies they had for each Convict that really did it, so Fletcher and Cooley get the praise from me. I think I lost it with him as Captain when he came out saying he should have been in the dressing room during the Ashes defence. How disrespectful, and how important does he think he is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Fair points, but he took over at the perfect time. For years we had a losing attitude, Nasser Hussain and Duncan Fletcher deserve a huge amount of the credit for turning that around. Vaughan came in as we were on the up, and it was his good fortune to be captain of a team with Flintoff, S Jones, Mummy's Boy and Hoggard all on fire at the same time. You could counter that he brought it out of them, but I think it was the strategies they had for each Convict that really did it, so Fletcher and Cooley get the praise from me. I think I lost it with him as Captain when he came out saying he should have been in the dressing room during the Ashes defence. How disrespectful, and how important does he think he is? Im pretty sure he had a lot to do with implementing those strategies for each Aussie though. Plus nearly all succesful captains have the good fortune of having a team full of top players. Look at Ponting, he is a great captain, who also has has McGrath, Warne, Lee, Hussey, Hayden, Gilchrist etc... in his team. We weren't exactly on the up when he took over. We had stagnated a little under Hussain, which is why Nass quit, and Vaughan helped to kick start it again. Obviously Duncan Fletcher deserves most of the credit, and Nasser and Vaughan deserve a lot too. They all did really well for the England team, and ultimately they all were hounded out of there jobs by the press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 If he knows his mind isn't right he's made a good decision to move on. I personally don't see him being recalled either as batsman or skipper in future. As for the replacement, I really don't think Pieterson would be a great captain. Too selfish. Great player, but I don't think the added responsibility of leadership will change him. The Rob Key option intrigues me. He's never quite been good enough for the test side, but suddenly people say he should run the show? Odd, but I like the idea of an outside influence coming in to freshen things up. Collingwood blew it as a poor one day captain, deteriorating after a promising start. Flintoff proved that bowler's shouldn't captain the side. Which brings me to Strauss. Who had a short spell in charge a couple of years ago and did well. So Strauss or Key for me. Any other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukka Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 IMO it cant be Key. You cant just come into an international team as Captain, I agree about Pieterson. Strauss gets my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickshire latics Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 If he knows his mind isn't right he's made a good decision to move on. I personally don't see him being recalled either as batsman or skipper in future. As for the replacement, I really don't think Pieterson would be a great captain. Too selfish. Great player, but I don't think the added responsibility of leadership will change him. The Rob Key option intrigues me. He's never quite been good enough for the test side, but suddenly people say he should run the show? Odd, but I like the idea of an outside influence coming in to freshen things up. Collingwood blew it as a poor one day captain, deteriorating after a promising start. Flintoff proved that bowler's shouldn't captain the side. Which brings me to Strauss. Who had a short spell in charge a couple of years ago and did well. So Strauss or Key for me. Any other suggestions? Bound to be someone from the Southern Counties !!!!!! Strauss wouldn't mind betting on him Piertersen is not a team player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springy Latic Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 If he knows his mind isn't right he's made a good decision to move on. I personally don't see him being recalled either as batsman or skipper in future. As for the replacement, I really don't think Pieterson would be a great captain. Too selfish. Great player, but I don't think the added responsibility of leadership will change him. The Rob Key option intrigues me. He's never quite been good enough for the test side, but suddenly people say he should run the show? Odd, but I like the idea of an outside influence coming in to freshen things up. Collingwood blew it as a poor one day captain, deteriorating after a promising start. Flintoff proved that bowler's shouldn't captain the side. Which brings me to Strauss. Who had a short spell in charge a couple of years ago and did well. So Strauss or Key for me. Any other suggestions? Cook or Strauss for me. Cook could really be developed as one of England's best if he is made captain. Just like Smith and South Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 3, 2008 Author Share Posted August 3, 2008 Strauss would have been my choice when Vaughan got ruled out the first time, I'm not sure it speaks volumes about him that his game seemed to go to pieces upon not getting the job, but I would try him now. The Flintoff experiment was always wrong I felt simply because the biggest decision an England captain has to make is how to use him. He can keep the pressure on in huge spells, and he can be devastating as a strike bowler, it's just not right for someone to be making those decisions about himself. He can get back to being the world's top cricketer for 3 years if he wants to be, captaincy is not the question. KP is soooo camp.... I mean, he really is... great batsmen, but not a natural leader. There is a reason why Lancashire reject Jason Gallian threw his kit off the balcony at Notts, he is out there for himself. It;s a shame Collingwood's form has gone to pot or he would be a shoo-in for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Strauss can't be sure of his place in either, never mind both, teams and shouldn't be named captain. KP will be captain on that basis...he's the only player 'guaranteed' to still be in both teams, barring injuries. It's time for Key to be recalled but not made captain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) Wow some really harsh comments on here... Personally thought Vaughan was a fantastic captain and brought home the prize we all wanted.... Agree it was time to go! Edited August 4, 2008 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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