oafc0000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) So the downsizing is official after all? Would seem so... Edited October 1, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 the key factor is being self sufficient. the other things won't matter if we ain't. Bang on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticMark Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Hopefully "State of the art" means something we can be pround of and not a B&Q shed without a roof style that some clubs have (Scunthorpe). For me the standard of the stadium will be a key factor in whether the move is successful. It does need to have a bit of a 'wow' factor that will remain after a season or two, when the 'its new' factor has vanished. I know others don't agree, but I think we can make the move to Failsworth successful with a great stadium design, facilities and metro links. At least I agree with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Bang on... But the revenue a successful playing side can quickly generate surely dwarves any potential non-football income? I suppose the proposed none football income provides us with a better platform to aim at the riches above, but I don't think it's the pot of gold that many others seem to do. When are the plans likely to be unvieled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Would seem so... The downsizing is best for the owners, best for the council and will eventually be seen as right for Oldham, according to SC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 But the revenue a successful playing side can quickly generate surely dwarves any potential non-football income? I suppose the proposed none football income provides us with a better platform to aim at the riches above, but I don't think it's the pot of gold that many others seem to do. When are the plans likely to be unvieled? This is just it. You might get self-sufficiency (or you might not), but on the scale that only enables lower division football. Which is, of course, why a stadium with a lower division capacity is being proposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Also, when is a club ever 'self sufficient'? They will always operate at a loss, it's the nature of the business. We could be self sufficient tomorrow, however it wouldn't be in our interests due to the perculiar nature of the industry we are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 But the revenue a successful playing side can quickly generate surely dwarves any potential non-football income? I suppose the proposed none football income provides us with a better platform to aim at the riches above, but I don't think it's the pot of gold that many others seem to do. The answer to that one is yes and no... I see self sufficient being a key issue as that is our safety net to ensure the club can survive during hard times... Which currently is not the case...and we are currently in hard times. The money being brought in can also be used as a spring board to success as well...or will free up other money to be invested in the squad if we have a good cup run for example instead of paying the power bills... That is the way I see it anyway... When are the plans likely to be unvieled? Would love to know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 The answer to that one is yes and no... I see self sufficient being a key issue as that is our safety net to ensure the club can survive during hard times... Which currently is not the case...and we are currently in hard times. The money being brought in can also be used as a spring board to success as well...or will free up other money to be invested in the squad if we have a good cup run for example instead of paying the power bills... That is the way I see it anyway... The only self-sufficient club that springs immediately to mind is Manchester City-and that's due to their ownership structure and the extraordinary wealth of their owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 They will always operate at a loss, it's the nature of the business. No its the nature of madness... We have to hope the FA, UEFA and FIFA get balls and correct this problem... If it dosent we might as well fold tomoz and save everyone a lot of bother... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 The only self-sufficient club that springs immediately to mind is Manchester City-and that's due to their ownership structure and the extraordinary wealth of their owners. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/se...s-record-profit Looks like you can make money out of a football club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 'ang on. Didn't Arsenal turn a profit just recently. Higher than the profit they made last year? I know most clubs operate at a loss, but not all of them do. And, tbh, it's not beyond the realms of possibility to do so either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 When are the plans likely to be unvieled? It has been reported previously that it is hoped to draw up the new stadium plans within 90 days from 8th September i.e. 7th December. Then the Council has to carry out its statutory consultation process with all interested parties, before the Planning Committee reaches a decision on the planning application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/se...s-record-profit Looks like you can make money out of a football club Some interesting smoke and mirrors going on there though. If every expense related to the football club actually appeared on the football club's balance sheet, I very much doubt Arsenal would have recorded a true profit ... having just built the Emirates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 'ang on. Didn't Arsenal turn a profit just recently. Higher than the profit they made last year? I know most clubs operate at a loss, but not all of them do. And, tbh, it's not beyond the realms of possibility to do so either. Yup see above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Some interesting smoke and mirrors going on there though. If every expense related to the football club actually appeared on the football club's balance sheet, I very much doubt Arsenal would have recorded a true profit ... having just built the Emirates. Arsenal's move to the Emirates Stadium in 2006 – funded by a long-term loan at a fixed interest rate – continues to pay dividends The will have repayment commitments... but looks like they are meeting those commitments and turning a profit... I don't get your point... It was a investment that is paying off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 As you will know, the likes of Arsenal benefit from the riches above which I mention. They also have a manager who is famed for being frugal. Their success has also waned. Would they turn a profit if they failed to qualify for the 'Champions' League? Fallen giants aside, in my opinion any self sufficient club at our level will stay where it is (or gradually move to being self sufficient at lower and lower levels). Still, every little counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 No its the nature of madness... We have to hope the FA, UEFA and FIFA get balls and correct this problem... If it dosent we might as well fold tomoz and save everyone a lot of bother... What do you propose they do? They already punish administration. This 'madness' is actually the pursuit of growth which, last week, was essential to any business hoping to stave off death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) As you will know, the likes of Arsenal benefit from the riches above which I mention. They also have a manager who is famed for being frugal. Their success has also waned. Would they turn a profit if they failed to qualify for the 'Champions' League? Fallen giants aside, in my opinion any self sufficient club at our level will stay where it is (or gradually move to being self sufficient at lower and lower levels). Still, every little counts. English professional football nowadays is a case of making the product on the pitch attractive enough to bring enough fans through the turnstiles to make the outlay on a team capable of sucess worthwhile. However, in order to maintain enough success to consolidate a bigger fanbase, and continue to expand that fanbase, more money has to be spent on players. Usually this means going into debt, unless a club is lucky enough to have owners with limitless wealth, with the goal of reaching the level where the game's wealth is concentrated the only way of ensuring that the debt doesn't continue to grow at a dangerous rate, and continue to bring enough people through the turnstiles to keep everything stable and maintain a certain level of success. I don't see any way around this. Edited October 1, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 What do you propose they do? They already punish administration. This 'madness' is actually the pursuit of growth which, last week, was essential to any business hoping to stave off death. Salary caps would be a good start.... Pursing growth is the right thing to do... Dose not mean you have to do a Leeds United though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) As you will know, the likes of Arsenal benefit from the riches above which I mention. They also have a manager who is famed for being frugal. Their success has also waned. Would they turn a profit if they failed to qualify for the 'Champions' League? Fallen giants aside, in my opinion any self sufficient club at our level will stay where it is (or gradually move to being self sufficient at lower and lower levels). Still, every little counts. You make a lot of waffle their without really coming to a point... I would offer that they would possibly still turn a profit if they failed to reach the Champions League... Edited October 1, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Some interesting smoke and mirrors going on there though. If every expense related to the football club actually appeared on the football club's balance sheet, I very much doubt Arsenal would have recorded a true profit ... having just built the Emirates. I'm not an accoutant but the Emirates will have been capitalized and will appear on the balance sheet as an asset. As the item is no longer a revenue item, it doesn’t affect the P and L statement. I would expect that the Emirates would have also been financed via some kind of loan which would also appear on the balance sheet and (I think) only the payments appear on the P and L statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Salary caps would be a good start.... Pursing growth is the right thing to do... Dose not mean you have to do a Leeds United though... Salary caps aren't enforcable and wouldn't necessarily work anyway. I suspect transfer fees would just inflate further, revenues increase and so the salary caps would subsequently grow. You make a lot of waffle their without really coming to a point... I would offer that they would possibly still turn a profit if they failed to reach the Champions League... Conversely, I feel that post made a number of succinct, if subtle, points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) Salary caps aren't enforcable and wouldn't necessarily work anyway. I suspect transfer fees would just inflate further, revenues increase and so the salary caps would subsequently grow. They seem to work fine in a lot of other sports... and other sports seem to be able to run as businesses... But no, if you think its unfixable fine How about banning transfer fees altogether... How about changing how football clubs and football runs completely... Basically, why don't the authorities fix the problem .... oh yeah, they want some of this money and are very much a major reason why we are in this mess Feel free to defend them though... Conversely, I feel that post made a number of succinct, if subtle, points. Well why not restate them a little less subtly Edited October 1, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) I'm not an accoutant but the Emirates will have been capitalized and will appear on the balance sheet as an asset. As the item is no longer a revenue item, it doesn’t affect the P and L statement. I would expect that the Emirates would have also been financed via some kind of loan which would also appear on the balance sheet and (I think) only the payments appear on the P and L statement. You are almost correct. The interest on the loan will appear on the profit and loss account so willhave been taken into account in the profit figure announced. However, the capital repayment of the loan does not affect the profit/loss of the Company in that year. The capital repayment will be shown somewhere on the balance sheet depending on their reporting process. Basically, the Emirates will have a value and be shown in the accounts. If the figure is say £100million, but there are loans of£90million against it, if there are no other assets, then the balance sheet will show a positive balance of £10million. If the profit for the next year is then £35 million, then the balance sheet will show as £10million + the profit of £35million giving them a positive balance of £45million. You then have to deduct the capital repayment of the loan from this so say that they have repaid £15million, the balance sheet will show a positive balance of £30million To sum up: Net opening Balance £10,000,000 Operating profit: £35,000,000 __________ Balance before loan repayments: £45,000,000 Less capital loan repayments: £15,000,000 ___________ Closing Balance: £30,000,000 Cheers, Harry Edited October 1, 2009 by Harry Dowds Green Shirt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.