oafc0000 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Considering OAP's receive the second lowest state pension in Europe they aren't making a very good job of mugging anyone. Every generation of youth faces it's own challenges, my dad fought against Nazi's for the likes of you and me, I can assure you he didn't relish it. I don't underestimate the problems faced by the young today but only they can change their lives, you're not going to do it by making whining, self pitying posts on an internet forum. One problem we all face today is our politicians playing their "divide and rule" tactics. You've fallen for it hook line and sinker. What fighting Nazi's has to do with dealing with an ageing population is beyond me but hey ho... Nothing to do with divide and rule, it is just looking at the numbers plain and simple. The current elderly population will pass away with little of no hardship being imposed upon them compared what will follow. Its future generations that we need to think about and deal with and set the system up for them. I am already planning on there being little or no state pension I can retire on so will be making my own plans. I ain't whining, I am taking action to make sure my own arse is covered. I suggest others wise up quick, stop whining themselves and expecting todays and tomorrows youths to fund your arse in the future, because its not going to happen. I have no idea where you get the idea of self pitty from... Your looking in the wrong direction there... If anything I am being an hard arse on the issue. Time for people to wise up to the future problems. The whining from todays elderly is what is unbearable... Edited March 23, 2012 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 What fighting Nazi's has to do with dealing with an ageing population is beyond me but hey ho... Nothing to do with divide and rule, it is just looking at the numbers plain and simple. The current elderly population will pass away with little of no hardship being imposed upon them compared what will follow. Its future generations that we need to think about and deal with and set the system up for them. I am already planning on there being little or no state pension I can retire on so will be making my own plans. I ain't whining, I am taking action to make sure my own arse is covered. I suggest others wise up quick, stop whining themselves and expecting todays and tomorrows youths to fund your arse in the future, because its not going to happen. I have no idea where you get the idea of self pitty from... Your looking in the wrong direction there... If anything I am being an hard arse on the issue. Time for people to wise up to the future problems. The whining from todays elderly is what is unbearable... And there ladies and gentlemen is the choice in black and white. The difference between the left and the right, the choice of the right is to do as LL is, as is his choice, to try and look after himself. The choice of the left is to try and look after each other. Just sayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 And there ladies and gentlemen is the choice in black and white. The difference between the left and the right, the choice of the right is to do as LL is, as is his choice, to try and look after himself. The choice of the left is to try and look after each other. Just sayin. Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Eh? Sorry, the wine has kicked in, I've knacked my back, been on painkillers all day. Did sound like the kind of thing you'd say though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Sorry, the wine has kicked in, I've knacked my back, been on painkillers all day. Did sound like the kind of thing you'd say though. Not really, I am all for people understanding that they will have to take care of themselves in the future, but I do feel a great deal of sympathy for people who believed the great lie that they were paying into a system that would take care of them and for whom it's too late to make alternative arrangements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Not really, I am all for people understanding that they will have to take care of themselves in the future, but I do feel a great deal of sympathy for people who believed the great lie that they were paying into a system that would take care of them and for whom it's too late to make alternative arrangements. Dignitas? Never too late. Edited March 23, 2012 by beag_teeets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmr Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The country is run by a bunch of little rich kid dicks who have no clue about hard work or hardship or whatever other bollocks they talk about. How can someone make a stand against these morally corupt people when they are backed and corupted by the people that control the media and everything else people rely on. The people who have the money have the power, that crave that money and power are the type of people that would piss on thier own grandmother to get more money and power. The whole system is :censored:ed and nothing will change until the whole thing comes crashing down in utter chaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 The country is run by a bunch of little rich kid dicks who have no clue about hard work or hardship or whatever other bollocks they talk about. How can someone make a stand against these morally corupt people when they are backed and corupted by the people that control the media and everything else people rely on. The people who have the money have the power, that crave that money and power are the type of people that would piss on thier own grandmother to get more money and power. The whole system is :censored:ed and nothing will change until the whole thing comes crashing down in utter chaos A bit hard to debate with or against. Could you narrow it down to some specific policies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictic Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 What fighting Nazi's has to do with dealing with an ageing population is beyond me but hey ho... Nothing to do with divide and rule, it is just looking at the numbers plain and simple. The current elderly population will pass away with little of no hardship being imposed upon them compared what will follow. Its future generations that we need to think about and deal with and set the system up for them. I am already planning on there being little or no state pension I can retire on so will be making my own plans. I ain't whining, I am taking action to make sure my own arse is covered. I suggest others wise up quick, stop whining themselves and expecting todays and tomorrows youths to fund your arse in the future, because its not going to happen. I have no idea where you get the idea of self pitty from... Your looking in the wrong direction there... If anything I am being an hard arse on the issue. Time for people to wise up to the future problems. The whining from todays elderly is what is unbearable... "I have no idea where you get the idea of self pitty from" I got it from your own words "The young are being mugged by the old and it can't continue" which are plain rubbish. I'm some years off state pension age and I've worked damned hard all my life, average of 50 hours a week mostly start times of between 2.00 am - 6.00 am. The only benefit I've had is child allowance, never claimed dole ect. Most OAP's I guess are of the same ilk, please explain how they've mugged you ? "I am taking action to make sure my own arse is covered" Good for you, exactly what I've done. The only "crime" todays pensioners have commited is to take what was on offer to them which for some reason reaps your criticism. "The whining from todays elderly is what is unbearable." Oh the sweet irony, complaining of others whining whilst whining yourself. One day it will dawn on you that the people who have actually mugged you are the bankers and politicians. That day I fear is some way off. Perhaps when you've grown up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) "I have no idea where you get the idea of self pitty from" I got it from your own words "The young are being mugged by the old and it can't continue" which are plain rubbish. I'm some years off state pension age and I've worked damned hard all my life, average of 50 hours a week mostly start times of between 2.00 am - 6.00 am. The only benefit I've had is child allowance, never claimed dole ect. Most OAP's I guess are of the same ilk, please explain how they've mugged you ? "I am taking action to make sure my own arse is covered" Good for you, exactly what I've done. The only "crime" todays pensioners have commited is to take what was on offer to them which for some reason reaps your criticism. "The whining from todays elderly is what is unbearable." Oh the sweet irony, complaining of others whining whilst whining yourself. One day it will dawn on you that the people who have actually mugged you are the bankers and politicians. That day I fear is some way off. Perhaps when you've grown up. What a lot of codswallop Fact is overtime a government tries to get a grip of the growing problem the older generation, who have a BIG say in elections, begin to flex their democratic muscles... Nick Robison on the BBC have done several features on it. We are mugged by all sorts... Including the elderly who have "paid their stamp" (as if there was a pot with their name on it)... You seem to be of the view point of anyone with a differing view is whining and full of self putty. It doesn't leave us much room to discuss Edited March 24, 2012 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Including the elderly who have "paid their stamp" (as if there was a pot with their name on it)... They were told it was. I agree with your overall point, but I understand the wrinklies having a feeling of entitlement. They also have the time to be arsed to moan about it more effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 They were told it was. I agree with your overall point, but I understand the wrinklies having a feeling of entitlement. They also have the time to be arsed to moan about it more effectively. People who are currently complaining more than OAPs: Transport workers Middle class folk getting child benefit reduced NIMBYs NHS workers Teachers Middle class folk getting child benefit reduced Hansard reporters People on enormous benefits (housing benefit and others) Motorists Drinkers Middle class folk getting child benefit reduced Smokers God botherers scared of cockfun People who get parking tickets and Middle class folk getting child benefit reduced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictic Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 People who are currently complaining more than OAPs: Transport workers Middle class folk getting child benefit reduced NIMBYs NHS workers Teachers Middle class folk getting child benefit reduced Hansard reporters People on enormous benefits (housing benefit and others) Motorists Drinkers Middle class folk getting child benefit reduced Smokers God botherers scared of cockfun People who get parking tickets and Middle class folk getting child benefit reduced And oafc0000, who still hasn't explained how he's being mugged by OAP's, who "enjoy" the second worst state pension in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticMark Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Here's one you probably will have missed, VAT to be now charged hot pies, pasties and sausage rolls from Greggs (and other such providers)!!! The Not just Greggs! What about the Pound Bakery - or will it be the £1.20 Bakery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 And oafc0000, who still hasn't explained how he's being mugged by OAP's, who "enjoy" the second worst state pension in Europe. Well I have and I expect I am mostly preaching to the converted as well... Go take a peak at the welfare bill... We need to either dramatically increase the tax take or reduce the overall welfare bill... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Well I have and I expect I am mostly preaching to the converted as well... Go take a peak at the welfare bill... We need to either dramatically increase the tax take or reduce the overall welfare bill... But you still want that child benefit though? We're all in it together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) But you still want that child benefit though? We're all in it together Until the budget I was on course to lose it,,.. I think depending on the state of the nations finances a argument can be made to keep our universal benefits... Fact is though we are in a mess and we are in a situation where we are taking benefits of disabled people ffs... So I won't sit here and cry about it being cut. I'll take that one on the chin. Or I would of done if they hadn't done a u-turn. In balance I think it should be cut right now. The way the was going to do was stupid though. They should say depending on x amount (50k?) of family income you should lose it. I think would be fair. Edited March 24, 2012 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Until the budget I was on course to lose it,,.. I think depending on the state of the nations finances a argument can be made to keep our universal benefits... Fact is though we are in a mess and we are in a situation where we are taking benefits of disabled people ffs... So I won't sit here and cry about it being cut. I'll take that one on the chin. Or I would of done if they hadn't done a u-turn. In balance I think it should be cut right now. The way the was going to do was stupid though. They should say depending on x amount (50k?) of family income you should lose it. I think would be fair. I remember you crying about it long since. Good that you weren't so busy looking after your own ass that you couldn't find time to look after your own benefits payments, despite being (as you say) on well above higher rate taxation income levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I remember you crying about it long since. Good that you weren't so busy looking after your own ass that you couldn't find time to look after your own benefits payments, despite being (as you say) on well above higher rate taxation income levels. I was mainly unhappy about its implementation wasn't I? than actually losng It? Anyway... Pont is I would be fine with it beng cut today... Even now the way they are doing it is daft... Extermley complex approach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I agree that the current schem is messy - but I seem to recall that you just felt, for some reason that you could never quite put your finger on, that you should receive a payment for having had kids regardless of your income. Maybe I missed your reasoning. At the time it sounded like the privileged whinging about a benefit they expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) I agree that the current schem is messy - but I seem to recall that you just felt, for some reason that you could never quite put your finger on, that you should receive a payment for having had kids regardless of your income. Maybe I missed your reasoning. At the time it sounded like the privileged whinging about a benefit they expected. As I said above a justification can be given for universal benefits ... We have a whooper in the NHS for a starter... Which we all get regardless of income... But this is 2012... Two years since it was first announced,, So what do you want my opinion today or from two years ago... Am I not allowed to change my mind? This is without getting into what I did say or not... Edited March 24, 2012 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossrocks Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 As I said above a justification can be given for universal benefits ... What justification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictic Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Well I have and I expect I am mostly preaching to the converted as well... Go take a peak at the welfare bill... We need to either dramatically increase the tax take or reduce the overall welfare bill... No you haven't, you've just made a cheap soundbite "The young are being mugged by the old and it can't continue" You haven't explained how a basic state pension of £102.15 is mugging the young. How exactly ? How low would you like it to go to ? As for preaching to the converted, you assume quite a lot there. So pardon me for assuming that people would like to see tax loopholes for the wealthy closed and companies such as Vodafone pay their tax liability of 6 billion pounds before taking money off OAP's. Yes, the welfare bill is too high, what do you expect when employers pay their staff minimun wage and the state picks up the bill via tax credits ? Osborne has just reduced the 50p tax rate under the bizarre assumption that the rich who avoided paying tax at 50p will now be quite willing to pay at 45p. The man's in cloud cuckoo land, or more likely he just wants to dole out more dosh to his rich chums. We do face very hard choices but hitting out at the most vulnerable in society isn't the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 What justification? For universal benefits ? Well the biggest and easiest one to defend is the NHS... The right to be treated no matter what your financial position... I mean thats a no brainer to me... Unless you want a two track NHS and so (which we are getting)... But I guess you are more on about Child Benefit in particular ?... Which is much harder to defend... Along the same lines as its hard to defend winter fuel payments for everyone... I am not being drawn into that argument because ultimately I think its right that we withdraw it while the country is in a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) No you haven't, you've just made a cheap soundbite "The young are being mugged by the old and it can't continue" You haven't explained how a basic state pension of £102.15 is mugging the young. How exactly ? How low would you like it to go to ? As for preaching to the converted, you assume quite a lot there. So pardon me for assuming that people would like to see tax loopholes for the wealthy closed and companies such as Vodafone pay their tax liability of 6 billion pounds before taking money off OAP's. Yes, the welfare bill is too high, what do you expect when employers pay their staff minimun wage and the state picks up the bill via tax credits ? Osborne has just reduced the 50p tax rate under the bizarre assumption that the rich who avoided paying tax at 50p will now be quite willing to pay at 45p. The man's in cloud cuckoo land, or more likely he just wants to dole out more dosh to his rich chums. We do face very hard choices but hitting out at the most vulnerable in society isn't the answer. If you have a home which is free of a mortgage... If you have paid into a company / private pension scheme that is alone giving you a good level of income... If your living costs are low... Then why should someone be automatically entitled to £102.15 a week ? Think about it logically. Not every OAP is struggling by like you think. A LOT are living VERY comfortably. Its a fact. I think what you are thinking is that I am wanting to kick down the doors of every pensionar in the country and take everything off them. Hardly... What I would be doing personally is start means testing a lot of OAP benefits. If you have nothing you get support... If you have a lot you get less or nothing... Just like the younger one who are rising kids and fighting like hell to put food on the table etc... If this country was flush then I would say fine throw that money around... but we aren't... So we shouldn't... I agree with all your points about Vodafone, 50p tax and minimum age etc... Doesn't mean we shouldn't reform other things... Edited March 25, 2012 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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