Dave_Og

15 minutes ago, Wardie said:

Oh, I didn't realise you were meaning the interview. Sorry Dave, I took the quotes from the Oldham Times article..I should have said. See how easy it is to get mixed messages.

Ah!

3 minutes ago, Wardie said:

Yes, someone has already made that observation and he didn't actually say "at the other end of the table". What exactly was the "Other end" when he took over? If he had said the wrong end of the table, then fair enough.

It's all down to the interpretation of words.

Ok m certainly not going to listen to it again but I'm sure he said relegation 

6 hours ago, Wardie said:

Mellon's comments.

"The way it is now, everybody that's here has got another year's contract so it's difficult because everything's pretty much tied up, everything's already been spent on the group that's here and the frustrating part is the group needs a lot of help and we won't have the ability to do anything about that, even with the outgoings"

I take it he means the contracted players who remain and there is no budget left, even if he gets rid of some?

"It wasn't a team that was flying at the top of the league, the manager unfortunately lost his job because the team wasn't performing for him, and it's all still here."

 

Players deliberately not performing for Unsworth and now doing the same for Mellon, so just not performing regardless?

"But I said weeks ago this needs major surgery and I said on game two when we played Fylde at Fylde, I said to people 'I think we're in trouble. I think I've taken over something here that could be in trouble, and I mean at the other end'."

The other end of what? Does he mean the Board?

 

"The owners of this football club and Darren Royle are absolutely fantastic, unbelievable people. People that I couldn't speak highly enough of. Absolutely terrific people. But this, what's been put together at the minute, isn't matching up to what needs to be done in order to win games of football at this level."

 

I'm sure he's having a go at the Board here.

He baffles me.

He said at the other end of the table, with crystal clarity 

2 hours ago, nzlatic said:

I guess I disagree that sweeping changes are needed and that the chances of them happening are miniscule. It's defeatist for starters, which I'd rather not be. But I also don't think either of those things are true. We wouldn't have needed to convert many of our draws to wins to be in the play offs (4 to be exact) and that's with a squad that had some major positional gaps. So I don't think we're a million miles away from competing higher up.

 

I also think there's plenty of scope for moving players in and out. Most of the contracted players who we may be wanting to move have had decent careers elsewhere.

 

There's a lot of time for them to make advances over the summer and I don't think it requires recruitment to be perfect to do so.

I wasn't particularly defeatist until Mellon's interview which I found absolutely extraordinary.  I'm usually of a mind that managers shoudl be given plenty of time but I change my mind on that after listening to that. Just diabolical

1 minute ago, nzlatic said:

The reality is we need a squad of around 24 players. We now have a squad of 20 and a number of that squad will leave as they are clearly not in his plans:

Kofi Moore (probably a season loan)

Joe Nuttall

Alex Reid

Mark Shelton

Kurt Willoughby

 

That brings us to 15. I don't think we'll stop there either. I think more will go out of what's left. Which for the sake of argument brings us to 12 players. If we want a squad of 24 then that's another 8 signings, plus the 4 rumoured from the out of contract list. 

 

That's still a massive change from where we were last week. But with 16 of the 24 in my hypothetical situation being existing players who have worked with Mellon, that brings an element of continuity when it comes to what he expects from his players.

It's not really a massive change though - it's just a theory that may or may not come about.  If he has a squad largely made up of players he'd worked with before, and largely ones he's said aren't good enough, we're in big trouble.  It all seems to swing on how many of the out of favour we can offload and how much of their wages we will still be paying.  Room for manoeuvre is clearly very limited and means that the half a dozen or so that we will probably sign all have to work out, hit the ground running and be injury free.  On recent form in the recruitment stakes I'd rate that as being a very long shot indeed.

3 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

The reality is, we only need 5/6 others to come in. Assuming they are all starters, that’s half the team. 
 

Why the piss boil ? 

Perhaps because we cannot make a single mistake in recruiting those 5 or 6.  That's a very unlikely scenario at the best of times.

8 minutes ago, PeteG said:

The out of contract players could sign pre-contract deals with any other interested parties though. I'd like to think if wanted to keep any of the players we'd have the decency to tell them and make them an offer now rather than keep them in limbo. It may well be that they have made some offers but shouldn't they let the fans know?

I'd rather they had some conversations in house and told us next week. Are pre-contract deals really much of a thing down here?

Seems bit weird to be in a position to release the released/retained list when we are still in May if we want to retain any of the players that are coming to the end of their current contracts.  The contracts don't end till the end of June so if we are interested in retaining one or two then plenty of time for a discussion with them.  Today's news item seem pointless

34 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

I am too but it's not a personality contest. He missed seven matches because he wasn't professional enough. Fans love to see a committed player, but with Fondop it borders on reckless and stupidity. Four red cards over his two and bit seasons with us is fairly damning.

Bit harsh given he missed four matches because of a refereeing decision that was simply wrong

9 minutes ago, JohnG123 said:

Bit like a poker game now.. any he might fancy (Fondop) the nearer to August the cheaper the deals that are handed out..........................

Fondop might have had enough of this anyway

37 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

The issue is, we are now going into next season with the exact same 5 centre backs. We only need 4…

 

It also stunts Sutton’s growth and we have at least two promising youth centre backs, who will not get an opportunity. 

Has any youth player we've released in, say, the last decade gone on to have a decent career?

Just now, Only Blue said:

I know Dave but if he gets nervous about playing and is brave enough to tell us all then a bit of support for him wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

It's all relative what worries you, I worried when my pub team got promoted to the Oldham Sunday premier league

 

 

I play pool on Tuesdays for the local pub (not especially well - it's more of  a social thing)  We were in Division Two of Three this winter, there were eight teams of which three were promoted and three were relegated.  Division One is way too serious (One bloke I played from up there in a cup competition had a whole sleeve of pool based tattoos!) so we weren't really fussed about going up but we are competitive enough not to want to go down.  Mission accomplished, we finished fifth.  Love a comfort zone!

1 minute ago, JoeP said:

 

A lot of the players were signed who've won things in the past might have been pulled through by the other players who were in the same team. 

 

We might have signed these players based on stats and previous achievements, when it was their team mates that were keeping them going. 

 

It's becoming obvious with Lundstram that he needs the right players around him more than most. Alty's player of the season last year, but not even a glimpse here. Alty, meanwhile, have barely dropped a beat since he left them..

Yep, team game - but teams rarely win promotion when they have weak minded players in their regular starting XI

42 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

eI think playing for Oldham in the national league is comparable to playing for the top premier league teams. Relatively of course. You’re expected to perform and you’re expected to win the league. That’s a huge difference to playing for someone who would be delighted with a play off place so needs the right sort of player who can handle it. Added to that, there was an extra layer of pressure on Lundstram particularly because a lot of our issues early this season were partly blamed on him being out injured so by the time he came back we’re all expecting to see a world beater. 
 

Those side of things need work on too as well as physical attributes. I think he looked a lot better when he came back after Mellon gave him a break. So I’m hopeful he can kick on next season. That’s why recruitment is so crucial and probably so difficult this summer. We need more players who will keep moving forward when the pressure is on (metaphorically and literally!) and not ones that will shrink like too many of ours have done this season. 

There's a real dilemma here.

It's just bizarre that so many of our players appeared to be weak mentally - Many have played at a higher level, many have achieved things in their career that are what we as a club aspire to. But they're mentally weak?  It makes no sense at all.  Mellon seems to have preferred experience over youth during his career but here he has a team of largely experienced players who have proved they can play at this level, at least, but we're left with spineless performances against clubs with a fraction of the resources.  OK, we were light at right back and in midfield but it doesn't excuse some of the stuff we've seen which has looked a lot like throwing in the towel.

So, we'd prefer a good blend of young dynamic players who, pretty much by definition, will be taking a step up if the come here even if they are coming from a higher level club where they played in, say the U23s, and gnarly NL experience.  If our first question of that younger cohort is can the cope with the pressure of playing for the mighty Oldham Athletic and the only way of finding out is by signing and playing them, then we really are stuffed because the chances of getting that right, say, 75% of the time seem to be pretty remote based on recent experience.

Many things that I struggle to get my head around, one would be Lundstram.Apparently he'd struggled to adjust to being at a bigger club? He's not got much of a career ahead of him if that's really the case. It's not like he's moved to Real Madrid 

19 minutes ago, LaticsEddie said:

I know its early days in the Betfred League 1 but I cant help draw comparisons with whats happening at Yeds going from strength to strength to us.

 

They, like us, have had a recent miracle takeover and club rebuilt. Both clubs sacked a manager shortly after their takeover and from there the similarities seem to end.

 

Latics went and recruited an unproven youth coach to their first job in charge, let him have free reign of the clubs rebuilt structure and gave him a summer to recruit. After an interim Mike Ford reign, Yeds on the other hand appointed a new and progressive coach but with a fantastic record at a club a division higher and a wealth of coaching experience in the mens game with top clubs.

 

On the player recruitment side, in the close season the Latics modus operandi seemed to be signing the "best" player from teams in our division or around (Lundstram, Ward, Willoughby, Hobson) or those that agents touted to us (Norwood, Raglan, Dickinson). All signed, in hindsight, with no clear plan especially given we were supposed to trim the squad and ended up with an excess of strikers and centre halves and 1 full back and winger. This lead to a massively imbalanced squad which is undoubtably a factor in us missing out on the playoffs.

Sean Long spoke earlier this week about recruiting for next season and spoke about building a team that will gel together and not just "buying your way" to promotion with big names. I can only assume the thinking was the same for this season with a blend of experience and youth and players that seem to play with passion, belief and for their team mates and shirt.

 

The Yeds also have a identifiable way of playing, and an attractive one at that. Long constantly refers to their system and the freedom to play outside of it, a system that relies heavily on defensive workrate.

Latics dont have a style of play. 80% hoofball, 20% misplaces passes on the deck.

 

Of course their are different factors at play between the sports but the point is broadly the same, the recruitment through the club needs a structure and plan, from the boardroom down. This summer will be a massive one for us and we could do with having a chat with out eggball friends.

Agreed although it is a bit of a joke of a league - only nine teams and the only points that two of them are likely to get are when they play each other.  Further tests to come when they play the only realistic challenger and hopefully next season

1 hour ago, Boyyou said:

A lot will depend on how we plan to set up next season. Think we need pacy wide forwards alongside the likes of Fondop (if still here) or Garner, if we lean towards a  4-3-3. 

I may as well say it first - 7-2-1

44 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

Just how many club's below the premier league are living beyond their means?

Most would be my guess.

Twas ever thus

7 minutes ago, GKing521 said:

Nuttall 3,000 a week and has a yearly increase bolted in.

 

Other duds have increases bolted into their deals as well. It’s one of the main reasons MM has been so down. 

 

And someone with his experience didn't know this before he took over?

12 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

But is it?

They seem to be making it harder and harder for the smaller sides to progress/survive in any way, shape or form

They won't be satisfied until there's only elite football and every single penny stays within it.

It looks like that from our perspective but in the 30 years we've been sliding down the leagues there have been plenty heading in the opposite direction

19 minutes ago, Boyyou said:

Paul Cook addressing Chesterfield supporters at promotion celebrations 

"...we need each other and we should always be there for each other when times aren't so good. There will be dark days ahead, when those dark times come make sure we stay together strong.

"I think the National League is so much tougher than people will know. Every game is really hard, especially when you are the biggest club in the division.  Everybody wants to beat you."

 

Perhaps some of our fans should take note.

How would he know? - we're the biggest club..

14 minutes ago, LaticMark said:

 

That reminded me of when my Dad took me to Maine Road in 1977 to watch us play Northwich Victoria in the 4th Round of the FA Cup. The Vics switched it to Maine Road as we were a big Division 2* club then! (We won 3 - 1).

 

* which is equivalent to the Championship for our younger readers!

I think 2003 (Farnborough v Arsenal) was the last time it was allowed

2 hours ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

Goalkeeper's have always been overly protected and now it's the turn of the defender's 

What there's such stupidly fine margins, the attacking player should get the benefit of the doubt or it's time to pack it all in.

 

Had it been the other way around, I'd put my house on it not even being checked

Big club rules!

If that was the case Coventry wouldn't have been given the equalising penalty

5 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

Offside should be a yard not a nose hair

It's bollocks

But if you say it's a yard then there would be an argument about it being 37 inches.  Let's face it - if the handball rule hadn't descended into complete farce there wouldn't have been extra time at all

49 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

That yesterday was disgraceful 

Time some of the offside rules were updated

|Why?  It's exactly what VAR was for and it worked perfectly (albeit disappointingly)