PeteG

23 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Hadn't Wrexham made the play-offs the previous season (and the FA Trophy final, if I remember rightly..) and had a manager who had a reputation for knowing what he was doing?

 

Also hadn't Stockport just come up from NLN?

 

It would be very harsh to sack managers after a few games, after such a good season previously.

 

I don't doubt there are plenty of examples of teams that have made stirring comebacks to win promotion in a season, but the fact is - at the moment - Unsworth has yet to show any sign is his tenure that he's the man to lead a well-funded team that should be fighting for promotion...

Exactly this, I saw someone post our start to the 87/88 season the other day as evidence for keeping Unsworth. The poster wasn't even born then and obviously forgot we had just come off a season where we never out of the top 3 of what is now the Championship and only lost on away goals to Leeds in the first year the play-offs were introduced of we would have been playing in the top flight then. Royle had earned the time and we could all see then that the side would produce, we were playing some fantastic stuff and just needed the consistency or the addition of 1 or 2 players to make us a top side. The cup runs gave us the finance to finally get the final pieces of the jigsaw with the likes of Jobson, Halle etc. The comparison of Unsworth and Royle is like comparing a Ferrari to a Skoda

40 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

So you are happy to disregard 25 games worth of form from last season but 5 games worth from this one means everything?

Indeed I am. He had more than 25 games and even the games we won didn't make me think he's the right man long term. You can back Unsworth all you want but this league is absolutely rubbish and there are far better managers out there that would jump at the opportunity.

10 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

I mean the improvements to the club.  The current squad and everything around it improved at a rate of knots.  It's a completely different club to when he took over.

 

Unsurprisingly, I'm not as convinced as you that the run from January is a massive sign he's up to task.  Most of the games stank and largely revolved around hoping the opposition would miss chances or Norman would play a blinder...

As well as playing sides towards the end of the season with little to play for. Sorry, despite the improvement from New Year (It couldn't have got any worse let's face it) i'm judging him on this season, he's got no credit in the bank and if we lose the next 2 i would want him gone by 6pm after the Boreham Wood game. In fact, if he had any respect for his mates the Royles, he would spare them a difficult decision and resign

Tbf @Lee Sinnott has always been pretty convinced that Unsworth will see out his contract, I didn't think it would be possible if he continued to fail but it looks like he might be right. Still, there is time for Unsworth to prove us doubters wrong and lets hope he does.

If we are signing another player in time for Saturday i fear Unsworth isn't going anywhere anytime soon unless its our magical recruitment department with the all singing stats that have made the signing?!?

22 minutes ago, Monty Burns said:

remind me again the last time a manager started and ended a season in charge of us

I get what you are saying and normally i'm all for giving managers time. I really think they need 2 years to build a side but during that time you have to see progress. We can't just keep Unsworth regardless for the sake of stability, we need to give it a real go this season.

1 hour ago, deyres42 said:

Are people losing their marbles here? We've played three games not 30, all without his gun midfielder. If we are still 17th come October time then of course it is game over for him.

 

Budgets help but you've still got to get the right ones in and they've got to perform, you said yourself we are not exactly breaking the bank for most of them.

We didn't appoint Unsworth in the summer, he's not had 3 games, I wish people would stop with this. He's been here nearly 12 months and was sat in the stands at the start of last season just waiting for them to get rid of Shez, which is why Shez wanted something in his contract regarding his pay off once the takeover was complete because even he knew they wanted to bring their own man in. 

9 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Are people losing their marbles here? We've played three games not 30, all without his gun midfielder. If we are still 17th come October time then of course it is game over for him.

 

Budgets help but you've still got to get the right ones in and they've got to perform, you said yourself we are not exactly breaking the bank for most of them.

Not breaking the bank compared to Wrexham but there is no doubt we are in the top 2 in terms of budget. All teams deal with injuries and suspensions, it's part of the game. We should be able to deal with it better than most. No more excuses, he needs to win games starting Saturday. If we had won the first 3 then lost at Chesterfield then that's ok. He's put himself in this position, he couldn't really have asked for a better 3 games to start with. At what point would you consider pulling the trigger? If we only pick up 1pt or 0pts from the next 2 we will be in the relegation places and in danger of the season being over before it's barely started. How long do we wait? You want to give a new manager a chance of turning it around and still making a promotion push. Stockport did it.

16 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Surely you need a sustained run of results first before you can start demanding anything?

No, we are the biggest club in the league with at least the 2nd highest budget. We should be demanding to be a top 3 side in this division. Anything less is not acceptable. Unsworth has no excuses, everything is there for him to succeed. He's been here for almost 12 months and we look no more like a team ready to push for promotion than when he took over. He's on borrowed time unless he starts winning games on a regular basis with immediate effect. Why should we be settling for less?

26 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

Agree with you here Pete. The excuse that this club as almost going bust and it will take longer to turn around is not a valid excuse to me. 
 

Right now, he has the players and facilities for us to be top 7 at the very minimum, my expectation is we are in the top 3. If Unsy can’t deliver that, then he should go asap. End of September is being generous. 

I also think end of September is being generous and if we pick up 0pts in the next 2 games then the top 7 by end of September is highly unlikely so he should be gone. I'm prepared to give him 2 games and expect 3pts from them as a minimum.

1 hour ago, andy_b_100 said:

No one really knows what happens for the other 40 hours of Unsworths week. Just the 90 or 180 mins on the pitch and Saturday was the benchmark not Tuesday. Unsworth does appear on face value to not be able to adapt to certain situations and occasionallt contradicts himself in the media. We all read the same stuff coming from Everton, we all saw last seasons inability before christmas and improvements after it. Three games in it looks a bit bleak but calling for the managers head and insinuating nepatism is just extreme. Where I think we fall despite his pitch performance Hogan is the least vocal captian I can remenber, he is the one who should be pushing the back line 10 yards up and yelling at the midfield when sideways passing. We have been unlucky with injuries, hopefully we will be up for the fight on Saturday for the world to see. I can easily see why people are disgruntled with the manager and certain players ..... Im tired of sacking managers, I just want to watch football, debate the result, drink and go to bed...... we are going to lose games ... were going to win games and I would love us to get promoted but it isnt the be all and end all for this season. 

You make some vey valid points, but the one i don't agree with is the last one. "I just want to watch football, debate the result, drink and go to bed" this has been the problem with this club for far too long, we are too easily pleased, a couple of games a season where we look half decent, the odd cup shock is all we have had for pretty much 30 years and we've got so used to being shit we are happy to just exist. It's got to change, we need to demand success and given where we are right now I don't think it's being unrealistic. Let's be honest, we are by far away the biggest club in this division, everything is in place to succeed but i'll tell you now, the longer we are down here, the harder it will be to get out. I keep hearing it took x, y and z this many years to go up, i'm not interesting in them, Notts County for example were in the play-offs every year, Grimsby did it at the 1st attempt despite having a takeover late in the summer and being in a bit of a mess. The minimum we should expect this season, is the play-offs and if we are not in the top 7 at the end of September he should be fired.

11 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

Nobody has had this kind of backing for many a year and it's obviously wasted on him but as he's here to stay, I'm more concerned about money being frittered away, leaving whoever takes over the car crash left, zero opportunity to put it right.

That's all.

Don't disagree with you, I don't believe Unsworth is the man to bring any long term success, I wouldn't have appointed him in the first place but he was always coming once the Royles were involved.

5 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

Should never have been given an open chequebook in the first place,

Considering he was a decent defender at a very high level, you'd of thought that he'd get that absolutely spot on before moving into other area's.

Simple really and he of all people should know it, stop the other team scoring and there's no way they can beat you 

 

I don't think there is an open cheque book in all fairness. With the exception of Norwood we aren't talking vast sums, certainly not to the levels of Wrexham but certainly in the top 2 in this division and that's what it boils down to. The league is crap and we are under achieving and it's either poor recruitment or the manager, possibly a combination of the 2. 

9 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

 

For it to work properly recruitment should be its own department that the first team manager is included in but not in charge of. Success determined by a balance sheet effectively. So if recruitment bod buys a player that doesn’t work out but can still be sold on for profit then that’s still a success of sorts. 
 

If you recruit a load of Urko Veras then you’re out on your ear. 
 

This is how I would imagine this sort of thing works but I’m just guessing and not sure that’s what we’re even trying to do!

 

My point is that a well run club shouldn’t need a complete squad overhaul whenever they change manager. That’s how I see our squad now. It shouldn’t need major surgery if they do decide he’s not the right man. 

 

 

The problem is, I don't believe the recruitment department has done a very good job so far, whether that's down to them or the manager, I don't know. The squad looks unbalanced to me, we've got too many strikers, i've already made the point elsewhere about getting Raglan after we signed Hobson and they tried to shoe horn all 3 CB's in 1st game up. Lack of a RB, which fair enough has been rectified but should have been done earlier as well as addressing the midfield. I honestly don't believe the recruitment is all that it's cracked up to be. We have signed Reid and Willoughby who have barely had a look in. Honestly think we should have a settled, preferred system and recruit the players to fit that not just think he's a good player who's available, let's get him. It certainly looks like a scatter gun approach at the moment and is a continuation of last season.

8 minutes ago, whittles left foot said:

You think this is the club at its lowest point?

 

Really?

 

 

On the pitch, it most certainly is!

6 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

I was nodding in agreement about the recruitment of a first team manager, but then I remembered it was your mates who appointed that idiot Keith Curle...

No mates of mine appointed Keith Curle, I can assure you of that. I know exactly who was responsible for that decision. I'd have never got rid of Harry Kewell or a number of his predecessors for that matter.

If and it's still a big if, but if we only get 1pt or even 0pts from the next 2 games then surely it's time to pull the plug. He won't just have had 5 games he will have had almost a full 12 months and if we are sat in the relegation places after all the investment, then i don't really believe it would a knee jerk reaction as Matt Dean was suggesting on the pod this week. I didn't think he was the man to lead us to a promotion and I actually thought it may be around October, November with us sat mid-table that might lead us to getting rid but surely if we are in the relegation places in 2 games time, it's time for him to go. My issue is, who is making that call? If it's down to DR rather than the Rothwell's then is he going to stand by his man? Remember, he was given the job with no interview process and the other question is, who would be selecting the next manager? No more jobs for the boys, we need a real process, you can have all the stats and recruitment structure in place but the most important position you ever recruit for is the 1st team manager. Who is qualified to make that decision within the club? If DR wants to throw a hissy fit should they decide to get rid of Unsworth then he can go too for me. 

Thought Norwood was head and shoulders above anyone else on the pitch today. He came short, linked play, gave us a real physical presence and obviously looked a real goal threat. Nuttall linked really well with him. Dickenson obviously did well and scored a great goal but not sure how he got MOM ahead of Norwood. I also thought Shelton was very good today, looked very controlled and Tollit confirmed what i said last season, he does look a footballer who can actually control it and pick a pass. All in all a good performance.

14 hours ago, mcfluff1985 said:

 

Unsworth already covered this. Salt down and told him he can find a new club  sounded like they thought he might be close

 

 

 

He was offered the option according to DU

He also said he'd found a club and everyone had left who they wanted to leave. I'll take what DU says with a pinch of salt.

He also said he was training at home and had been given a training plan, think i'd rather train with the youths like Wheater had to!

I've always liked David Artell, did well at Crewe for the majority of his time there. Bit strange hes not had another job since but he did say he needed a rest having done literally everything at Crewe. Plays decent football and I think he would be a good fit for us.

6 hours ago, League one forever said:

Here’s my weird count. 
 

Chases Willoughby for six months - doesn’t play him. 
 

Says he’s happy to start with Sutton as we need to bring the youngsters through- but then signs two centres half’s blocking his progress in his natural position. Meaning he’s bringing through a centre half as a wing back. . 
 

Has signed two strikers with 3/4 already on the books- but hasn’t signed anybody who can really pass a ball. 
 

Says to the pod boys he wants fast dynamic football and on the first game of the season reverts to ultra defensive. 
 

Wins games last season playing 442 but doesn’t want that, so goes back to what loses him games with 352.
 

Rumoured player unrest. 

 

Says on the recent pod ‘and I’ve told the club that if anybody comes in for me I’ll be loyal’ when. . . he’s achieved the square root of fuck all and no club would be looking at him at the minute. 
 

 

I don’t think think you need to be inspector morse to read between the lines, and say that all is not well. 
 

 

He's signed 4 strikers and apparently doesn't fancy at least 3 of them! The man needs to go.

3 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Those three players played about 20 minutes between them on Saturday that is after being all but ever presents in their respective club sides last season so it's going to be difficult to judge them until they are given a run in the team but you make a fair point, on paper though they have the right profile and you can see why we've brought each of them in.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not judging them at all yet. i'm just thinking we may have over estimated how good the squad and recruitment is, when the reality is, with the exception of Norwood, they all have a lot to prove. I still think we will be in and around the play-offs because the league is absolutely terrible.

5 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

Under normal circumstances, I'd probably agree. But when the opportunity to sign Norwood comes up, it's a no brainer. Again, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I share your reservations with the recruitment side...

100% with Norwood, he's the exception i'd have thought, clearly good enough to be playing 2 levels higher. The rest of them are very much unproven and why I think expectations are a little high among the fanbase. We have been going on about signing lads from Gateshead, Altrincham and Chester as if they are the best signings the club has ever made. No disrespect to those 3 clubs but if we had signed these players 3 years ago there would have been the proverbial piss boil on twitter by some.

1 minute ago, Lee Sinnott said:

I think my esteemed friend and your long distance relative @lookersstandandyhad a good point in December about him only signing Reid cos he thought he couldn't get Nuttall, but then they gave in to Nuttall's demands, despite DU saying the club wouldn't do that...

Agree with that as I stated in a previous post somewhere. I can't believe questions haven't been asked when Unsworth has asked to sign striker after striker yet then fields a team with 7 defensive minded players. If I was Chairman or CEO and the manager came asking for another striker, my immediate response would be what about the other 3 or 4 we have signed for you that we the supposed answer to our prayers? I'm not sure this recruitment department is all it's cracked up to be but then i'm old fashioned in believing managers should have full say when it comes to signing players, after all he has to pick the team.