nzlatic

Big game now for Mellon. We’re at the getting angry at interviews stage of the manager ousting process, so he needs wins fast.

Where would player signing on fees or agent fees come into this? Could they be included in that £100k?

He’ll probably go to 4 at the back next season won’t he? If so then Raglan and Hobson will be the likely starter. Hogan and Sutton as back up or if he switches to a back 3. If that’s the case I’d rather have Hogan in that role than bringing someone new in.

The plan might be to use him as an experienced, popular squad player rather than building the whole first team around him.

Wonder whether Hogan is planning on coaching? He always talks really well about the game. I'd be happy with him staying on as a squad player with some coaching thrown in. Possibly getting him ready for the main job further down the line. Granted, this is all speculation based solely on the fact he's a captain and speaks well in interviews!!

I find us a really enjoyable team to watch now. I saw the Brazil game on tv and went to Wembley last night. Virtually every player looks totally comfortable on the ball. We're more attacking now, but in a patient, controlled almost continental way. And seeing as we were missing 15 players through injury it makes the performances even more impressive. When it comes to tournament football, Brazil wouldn't be allowed to get away with the fouling they did. But also, we need to be clinical. If we had been clinical in these games we'd have won both comfortably. I'm excited for the next tournament and the next few after that too - lots of young talented players in the team and coming through.

He got 16 goals in 43 games last season. I think he’ll get offers if he’s interested. Or he might just go put his feet up in Cheltenham for a year whilst getting paid by us just to wind you up!

You can have all the opinions you like. Presume I’m ok to comment on them. Seeing as Nuttall is out on loan right now I’m not sure why you targetted him as being someone you think isn’t arsed about playing.

Fair enough. Sorry, I didn’t realise you knew him.

I think most of the players we’re looking to move on will get offers from elsewhere. They may have been poor for us but most if not all have had good spells elsewhere. The wages may have been a problem with moving them up to now, but in the summer they may be faced with one year on a higher wage but not playing at all vs a 2 year deal elsewhere on lower wages but they’ll probably be playing. It’d be more harmful to a career to stay where they were.

Thompson has been replaced hasn’t he? I remember someone being mentioned as having come into that role a while back.

I was trying to watch what we do at corners on Saturday but it's hard to follow on the stream as the camera is usually swinging wildly about in the wrong direction. But it looks like they all gather around the 6 yard box most times. So if the ball does get past the first man then they're all competing for headers from a standing start. I'm not sure if we show much variety or have specific plays when it comes to trying to score from set pieces but our return must be one of the worst in the league.

That is a possible argument, but then again Norwood has scored goals and won promotion with Mellon before so there's no reason why they shouldn't be capable of recreating that.

yep I can think of far more pressing issues than our 17 goal striker not scoring enough solo dribbles from halfway.

He had a couple against chesterfield that were behind him. Seems to be a common theme of our crossing/set pieces at the moment.

Definitely. Hudson Raglan Hobson Kitching Conlon Norwood Garner I think you could start those 7 next season and add 4 better quality replacements and be realistically aiming for top 3.

With that example, the business might take the view that the sales person is available now and will be a massive benefit to the business over the next few years. So lets get him in now. There are some ok drivers who can get that job done in the mean time. But also, it may just have been that they thought it was the right decision at the time and had a plan for the other stuff, but it just didn't work out that way. I'm not going to sit here and argue we've got our recruitment right. All I'm saying is that progress has been made season on season so far and that Mellon should get a proper amount of time to improve again and see us jump up another few places next season. And if the EFL and National League can get their act together and make it 3 up/3 down like normal leagues then we'll all feel a bit better about our chances.

To persist with my already thin metaphor, would people buy it though? There is more too it than just creating good food as if it was that simple loads of people would have successful restaurants. I'm not comparing a restaurant with a football team though, so maybe metaphor is the wrong word. It's just an example of a business that should sound simple but definitely wouldn't be because there are all sorts of other things that go into creating a succesful restaurant. Same with football... new owner, spruce up facilities, hire manager with good record, sign good players - it sounds like a simple recipe (sorry) for promotion but if it was that simple then everyone would do it. I've just listened to the pod, so this comment probably more relevant in that thread, but as Matt said, we're moving forwards, not backwards. As we do that, the changes that will be needed for long term success will be less drastic over time. Starting this summer. I think we have the bones of a very good team, so I don't think we need a complete overhaul.

I don't disagree with you Joe on the evidence of hope on the pitch when it comes to performances. But as a season as a whole, purely on results, there has been evidence of hope. If I was defending the on pitch stuff I'd probably point to having 4 different match day managers this season (I'm stretching by including Murray in that I admit). And that Mellon is the only one who comes with any pedigree. 28 games is not long enough to declare whether someone has been or is going to be a success or not. When it comes to turning the club around, if we do happen to be a fixture in the top 3 over the course of next season, would that not be seen as good progress within the timeframe? Is it realistic or fair to expect that to have happened during the 2nd season and be so furious as some are that we aren't at that point now? I'd argue not. Yes Frank has made immediate changes, but you could say that about a lot of businesses. Buy a restaurant, bring in a michelin star chef and give them a shiny new kitchen but would or should that guarantee that the food is consistently great and you have a great and profitable restaurant within a few months? I don't think things are that simple.

You've picked Chesterfield as the one example to refute what I was saying but that is the exception rather than the rule given how far clear they are at the top. One of the main problems I have with trying to have an online discussion about a complex matter is when things get reduced down to a simple point to try and argue against. I did not in any way say it was the "fans fault" nor was I "blaming the fans". The point I was making was that it will not help hurling abuse at players for having a bad game. I don't think anyone could argue that it would help. I mean I even specifically said that wasn't my point in a follow up post. I also said that I acknowledge that I understand frustrations and that I don't know what the answer is. If I thought the answer was fans needed to stop booing then that would suggest that I thought I did know what the answer is. I don't think the fans will stop no matter what I or anyone else think about those sort of things being a possible a contributing factor to our problems, it isn't going to change. So it's 100% on the club to try and sort that out. I think what happens is people see things in different ways. I think we're all fed up of our lot. Decades of relentless shite, yet still turning up in the hope that we're going to see something good at last. Then the Rothwells come in and we can finally see some light. But it isn't happening quickly and I think thats where fans diverge. Some are clearly furious that it's taking longer than they think it should. Others are a bit more relaxed about it. Each group probably winding the other up for thinking differently! My personal feeling is that we were about as low as a club gets without going bust less than 2 years ago. We have novice football club owners (yet very experienced and successful local business people who care), a relatively inexperienced CEO and we started off with a novice 1st team manager. All trying to build a club up from rock bottom. Things will go wrong and they did, starting with the Unsworth appointment. We've now got a proper, experienced winner in one of the key positions yet he's only actually been there a few months. This season, we're likely to either go up (least likely option) or we'll make the play offs or just miss out. That is progression. It may not feel like it or be as much progression as some would expect, but it's still progression. And it will be our best finishing position (relative to the leauge we're in) for nearly 20 years. This is all stuff to build from, not to be absolutely furious about. That's the bit I don't get - how many people just seem to be in a permanent state of fury about it all. I'm frustrated as anyone else when we have an inexplicable bad game, usually after a good one, but if you were to have said to me in the summer of 2022 that our first season would see us mid table, our second season would see us in or around the play offs and that we'd be going into the third season with a multiple promotion winning manager a few months into the job and some of the top players we have in the squad, then I'd have been thinking that would be a decent rate of progess. What that means on a match to match basis though is a level of inconsistency until we're a team that's pushing for the title. It means drawing or losing games we should be winning. It means players having off days. We've had too many of those recently, but it doesn't mean the whole club has gone to shit. Unfortunately, turning around a business is not as easy as just injecting some cash, or playing 442, or putting a youth player in the team. I don't expect us to be winning the league by March next season, but I expect us to be consistently top 3. That'd be more progress.

The running through brick walls was the least important part of what I was saying. If you ignore that and change it to "doing the simple things" then, if the fans contract with the players is that if you fail to do the simple things well enough, often enough, then we'll scream abuse at you, then we will have an ongoing problem. I'll reiterate, I'm not saying that it's the all the fans fault and they're not allowed to criticise. But at the moment I think it can occasionally be a disproportionate reaction and could be a possible contributing factor to the lack of confidence or consistency. They're playing with the knowledge that if they have a bad game then at the end they'll be made to go over to the fans where a number will scream all sorts of shit at them.

You're right, it is a two way street. I totally get fans frustrations after so long without anything to cheer, then we get a squad that on occasion looks like leading us the right way, but then just as easily look like they've never played together before. But I also think that this relationship as it is with the fans - which seems to be we expect you to run through brick walls for us every game, but if you play like shit we'll scream abuse at you when you come over (in a game we haven't lost) - is not helpful at all. Why should they enjoy playing for Oldham or how can they truly play with freedom when they know if they have a bad game that's what they get? I actually don't know what the answer is. But we seem to be in this polarised situation where the players either get adoration or abuse depending on whether we win or not.

That’s the spirit eyresy, glad to see you’re finally getting on board.

This is the key. If we’d just maintained our points at the same level as before over those 5 games we’d be 4th now. If we get back to that level we’ll end on 72 which should be enough. That’s the challenge for them.

I thought we’d stay in the play offs once we got there. But we haven’t. Things not going the way you expected often tends to happen in life.