nzlatic

Before we start hiding his shoelaces have a look at his interview after a 1-4 away win at Barnet. He barely cracks a smile…

https://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/news/2023/november/23112023-mellon-post-barnet-a/

1 hour ago, deyres42 said:

He's nae finished, he's only 52.

Quite. Seems reasonable to think it’d be worth keeping him based on what he’s done when given time in the past. 
 

You seem to think there’s not much chance of that happening so I wondered if that was because you thought he wasn’t capable of success with us or as a manager in general. 

29 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

The only reason people seem to have for keeping him is based on what he did elsewhere some time ago.

 

Open your eyes to the here and now and the absolute dogs dinner he has made of it.

Do you think he’s finished as a manager?

22 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

I agree with your second sentence, the team showed fight and passion albeit we didn’t create many clear cut chances. On your first sentence, again, of course we could win all 4 but how many times this season have we played well 2 games running, never mind 4?

We won 4 league games in a row under Mellon end of Dec/early Jan. Feels a long time ago now. 

5 minutes ago, League one forever said:

If we’re going down that road, ST contributed to being 5th as well as Mellon. 
 

It’s all semantics though. 
 

To my mind being excited for a couple of weeks in Feb is nowhere near to getting promoted.
 

Dave- a caller on the phone inn last night, made a great point. Sides that can sustain a playoff push throughout the whole season are serious contenders. This season that’s Bromley and Barnet. They don’t have runs of 1 win in 10, and they definitely don’t have two runs like that in a season. We are pretenders at the minute, not contenders. 

Chesterfield pretty much had that exact run last season which took them out of the automatic promotion race. Probably at a similar time of the season too. 
 

Cook also had a very average first 20 games in charge the season before when he took over a team at the top and clung onto 7th by the end. 
 

They kicked on this season though and didn’t have those sort of runs. That’s what we need to do next season. 

1 minute ago, oafc1955 said:

We are talking about Shelton here?

I did mean that we should have let him go out on loan even if just for a percentage of his wages, rather than keep him and pay 100%!

Saying that, I am a little puzzled as to why he's been totally frozen out. I can understand some of the other decisions... Reid - discipline, Nuttall and Willoughby - wanted different types of strikers. Shelton struggled but given midfield and rwb have been such massive problems I'm surprised he's not been considered at all. 

6 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

Does Stats Bomb (Stats Bomb. You're my Stats Bomb) give you data on midfielders who put in a massive crunching tackle within the first minute? I think that's where it's coming up short.

xR (expected reducers) stat needed urgently. 

16 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

At our level we are looking at statistics from sometimes previous years thinking they are still the same. That's the big mistake. 

 

 

Do you know this for sure BP? 

My query on stats at this level would be do they offer enough depth? With a million camera angles and data tracking options teams at the top must have, you could track anything. But other than player GPS and camera shots that spend most of the time waving around looking at the stand and the sky, I can't imagine the data recording is at the same level.

It would be useful to have someone who knows the systems explain more about how they could be used by clubs at this level. Without that we're all guessing.

6 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

He came out the gym when we were walking round to the ground against Fylde, about 2.15.

 

From what I've heard, he was happy to go out on loan, but Latics wanted his wages paid in full and the club who wanted him couldn’t/wouldn't do it...

Cheers. Seems a strange one if that's the case. We're paying his wages in full if he stays so may as well get something back and let the lad play.

5 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

Oldham will win. They provided a reaction in the 2nd half at Altrincham and I expect them to continue in the same way this weekend.

 

Who's coming in from obscurity this week? My guess is Walker...

Shelts.

Seriously though, does anyone know what has happened to him? I think he's the only player we've heard nothing from or about for months. It's like he's just vanished with no obvious reason why.

27 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Brad made a very interesting observation on the phone inn last night- only us and York use stats bomb and both clubs have seen big budgets blown on bloated underperforming squads. . . 
 

Matt speculated that he thought Mellon might be talking to the board- with ‘I know what a good player looks like’ 

 

Everything about the club barring the actual team performance is great, but it’s obvious with the size of the squad and its under performance that something isn’t right, and it’s a collective responsibility. 

With the stats thing, it just boils down to how it's used. It doesn't mean it's wrong to have it. Royle introduced it which should in theory be a good thing, if it's not being used correctly then that's a human problem. Which is the recruitment team, whoever that is.

If you filled the gym with all the best equipment then had a trainer telling people the wrong way to use it, it's not the equipment that's at fault.

Just now, BP1960 said:

 

Stats bombs?

All it needed was to watch young dynamic players live in action and sign those we could.

Instead it was some injured players with  past reputations we couldn't  possibly have assessed.

Too much reliance on stats and agents has been the problem IMO.

 

 

 

No harm having it in the mix. It all depends how it's implemented.

7 minutes ago, PeteG said:

What is the relevance of that in terms of what we are discussing now? What areas of the club improved under the ownership of Corney? Are just going to keep going back? We are talking about now.

You literally referred back to the previous regime and the situation they inherited in your post and inferred that protests hampered a promotion push. Why mention that unless you think the fans are letting this ownership off lightly by not doing similar? 

What this ownership and board have done off the pitch is very relevant when discussing their performance so far.

Funnily enough I was browsing #oafc on twitter earlier. There was someone on there banging on about club communication, plans and statements as well. As for Corney, that was also a bad era for the club under his ownership and the senior club director Barry Owen.

5 minutes ago, PeteG said:

The majority of us were saying the same thing 12 months ago. It has arguably been worse this season even if we do finish a couple of positions higher as they had a full pre-season this time to prepare. We can't keep making excuses about previous ownership and what they inherited. AL also inherited a mess of a club but protests were under way less than a full season in (Mansfield at home) when we still had an outside chance of reaching the play-offs in League 2. If the plan is still the same and there are mitigating circumstances as to why the recruitment has not worked thus far, we need the club to tell us and to say this is the path they are going down and stand by it. If they think they got it wrong, admit it and again tell us the new plan. They have just increased season ticket prices (rightly imo) but they can't just expect people to have blind faith after overseeing some of the worst results in the clubs history.

Can you list the areas of the club that improved under the ownership of Abdallah Lemsagam, the sporting directorship of Mo Lemsagam and their senior advisor/club director Barry Owen? For example, what infrastructure, staffing or playing department areas of the business were left in a better state than what they inherited?

6 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Never in doubt. 
 

I said - the football operation alone. 
 

Stats bomb.
 

One youth player sold- without really playing for the first team- despite his performances being good enough. 
 

No other youth player in the first team- despite big proclamations. 
 

B team with Unsworth

 

No B team with Mellon. 

 

6 centre half’s 

 

12 midfielders 

 

8 strikers 

 

No right back.

 

One left back. 

 

None of that is made up. It’s either what DR has said, or what has happened. 
 

If you don’t think two years is enough time to asses someone’s suitably to the role- then fine, but I disagree. 
 

It won’t happen because he so intwined into the club, but Id like him to keep doing what he’s doing on everything bar the football decisions. 

I don’t want to keep dragging this out, but I suppose to summarise my position I do agree that there have been issues with our recruitment of course. I just won’t point fingers when I don’t have facts. Eg stats bomb - we simply don’t know how extensively it’s been used or how influential it has been or how much at fault it is for the recruitment that hasn’t gone well. Plus as with most tech systems, it’s only as good as the people operating it!

I will be a lot more concerned if we’re still seeing similar issues 2 months into next season. 

9 minutes ago, League one forever said:

You asked for examples- I gave you some. You can pull everything apart if that suits your narrative. (Not a dig) 

 

You come across online as someone who always, always wants to defend the club, by finding any multitude of reason for failure and/or mistakes. Which is fine when there is grey area. 
 

Places there isn’t grey area. 
 

The family are on record saying they won’t get involved with football decisions. I believe them- so if they aren’t doing it, who is?? Both Unsy and Mellon have said in interviews they are constantly on the phone to DR, so while I wasn’t in the room listening everything suggest from the family and managers that he is heavily involved in the football side. 
 

DR is on record as staying stats Bomb is highly effective tool for recruitment and we were one of only a few clubs to have it. If it’s been used - it’s been woeful. If it’s not been used, why have it in the first place. 
 

DR is on record as saying a B team is important (because Unsworth said it was) then it disappeared when Mellon arrived. Where is the oversight from the man making the footballing decisions or does he just go with what the manager says. . . 
 

DR is on record as saying the youth is vital to the health the club. Our only player to come through got sold cheaply, when it’s obvious that had he played more we would have potentially got a higher fee. If we did or not is irrelevant- are we giving them a pathway or not?? One player in two years, who hardly played is not what he said is vital to the club, and at interview I would fully expect him to tell the manager how important that is to the club. Instead, he folds and we just sign more strikers and more midfielders on long contacts. 
 

We haven’t had an established right back for two seasons- that is at best a mystery and at worse negligent. He can’t tell the manager who to sign but for someone who is in charge of footballing decisions- the facts tells us- he lets the managers sign who they want. 
 

What does in charge of football decisions mean? It means leaving the manager to do his job under the remit of which you agreed at the time of appointment. On both occasions it looks like DR and the board have said do what you like and we’ll back you. The facts not guesswork tell you that. Two years later and we extremely lopsided squad and our return for a fantastic budget is 12th and 9th. 
 

DR - (on the football side alone) has done a poor job. 

 

I know you’ll pull my post apart, so I’ll leave it there. 

I’m not going to pull your post apart because you’ve just done the same again, made assumptions to fit your position and tried to pass it off as evidence you’re right. 
 

I will pull you up on the bit I’ve highlighted though as it’s simply not true. I just hold off on making absolute judgements about failure/success unless I have the facts of a situation. Or unless I think sufficient time has passed to judge something properly. So far, the weight of evidence is that those running the club are doing really well (infrastructure, plans for future development, paying the fucking bills! etc) and have the right intentions. Based on that, I’m happy to give more time and benefit of the doubt when it comes to that filtering through to what’s happening on the pitch.

20 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

 

I’m sorry but signing a player who hardly played for two years on a short term deal, and a young right back who had never played a professional game, is not them trying to solve the problem, they

panicked. 
 

Our right back situation is incompetent, at best. It’s bloody criminal and pathetic. 

 

Us signing 2 players and them not working out is not criminal/pathetic. Especially when we don’t know the reasons they’ve not worked out nor do we know who else was available. 
 

It is frustrating though and obviously needs resolving. It also bridges 2 management/recruitment teams, the second of which hasn’t had a summer to deal with it. 

59 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

Doesnt matter how good he was for someonelse he was dog shit for us. He played 4 times and scored 1 goal costing us over £500k in wages he is the worst value for money signing in the clubs history and it was done completely over the managers head as a present to the fans. As presents go I'd rather have a lynx africa box set. 

If only Frank hadn’t wasted so much money on sorting a water supply, fixing the floodlights, renovating all the pitches, paying bills and salaries, sorting out a fans bar and a whole host of other infrastructure work then we’d easily be able to afford another Queensy Menig. 

15 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

I think not signing a right back for the last 2 years to 18 months is just as bad as the Menig situation. It’s beyond incompetent at this point. 

We’ve signed 2 they just haven’t worked out. 
 

Freeman - played at a much higher level. Looked decent at times. Then just disappeared. Fitness? Personal reasons? 
 

Sachdev - looks dodgy on occasion, looked good on occasion. Seemingly out of favour now. Not sure why. 
 

It’s a position that we can’t get wrong this summer. 

51 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Recruiting ST.
I accept this. But we don't know for sure where the recruitment issue lied. Didn't ST say that there were players he wanted that DU reject?

Bringing stats bomb. 
A complete unknown what influence this has been. There is no evidence that we've signed players based on stats info that has been misleading. In theory, introducing this element to the recruitment process should help it. But it depends how it's being used. It's guesswork to suggest this has caused a problem.

Both of which have contributed to some awful decision making regarding recruitment. 
Guesswork. It's possible yes, but it's also possible they haven't been the reason recruitment has not been as successful as it should have been.

How many successful signings have we had since they joined? 
You'd need to define success really. I don't think you can properly judge recruitment when you're looking at such a short period of time. Eg, Conlon and Hammond have not been great this season, but for all we know they could be on fire next season. A few months in a team in transition is too early to judge.

Norwood? (And I don’t think even he has hit the heights we were expecting) 

DR signed Norwood? He's our top scorer by some distance.

Im sure DR does a lot of great things for the club, however his footballing decision and/or oversight has been very poor. 
A conclusion you've made on assumptions not evidence.
 

 

49 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Oh.

 

Agreeing to a B team in division 5. 
That was part of the plan laid out at the start.

Canning a B team. 
The plan changed. This is pretty normal stuff for businesses, you roll with the punches. That may just be because it's not the right time now, but will be introduced in the future.

Saying the youth structure is vital to the club, and then overseeing the only player to come through underplayed and sold for peanuts. 

He isn't and shouldn't be influencing which players play for the first team. He should be making sure the youth team and first team have the infrastructure in place to be successful and for a pathway to exist. I presume you mean Harry Vaughan. What were the terms of his sale? How much paid? Sell ons? Can we judge yet if that's "peanuts"?

There's quite a bit of speculation in here. Comments above.

I'm not saying he's done a great job. But I'm not saying he's done a bad job. For starters I don't know for sure exactly what his remit is and on what criteria to judge him. But also, he's been in the role for less than 2 seasons.

Recruitment should have been better, particularly last summer. But it might be that this summer is where a lot of it will be addressed. Again, too early and not enough info to judge that he "shouldn't be anywhere near important footballing decisions".

31 minutes ago, PeteG said:

Personal opinion, but I wouldn't be letting the Royles anywhere near the important footballing decisions. They have had a go at that for the last 18 months and it's been horrendous. Joe has been out of the game a long time and the game has moved on a great deal in that time. We need to appoint a Director of Football who has full control on the recruitment alongside the manager which for me would still be Mellon at this stage. Those 2 people would then be responsible for the results on the pitch as currently nobody seems accountable. Who appoints the DoF, is another thing given the Rothwells freely admit to knowing nothing about football. As I said previously, the whole footballing side of things needs a complete rethink as we can't continue to waste precious time and money in the division for too long.

Other than Darren appointing Mellon and presumably Unsworth too, what footballing decisions have been made by Darren or Joe Royle under the Rothwells so far?

55 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

I’ve put my forecasts in your post above!

That gives Aldershot finishing on 70 points. Ignoring our match v Halifax, they have 69 points from 45, we have 67 from 45. So we have to win at Halifax and given current GDs, we would then scrape into 7th ahead of Aldershot on 70 points.

 

Knowing us, we will probably beat Halifax but lose at home to Wealdstone in the final game to screw it all up. Or make the play offs and then make a swift exit!

12 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

 

Typical, textbook Latics will be wins vs Rochdale, Halifax and Oxford followed up with a 1-4 pissboil against already-relegated Wealdstone.

I'm going to the Wealdestone game. My first home game since Aldershot last season. I fully expect us to be out of it by then and limp to a disappointing defeat. Or, for us to need to win to get 7th and limp to a disappointing defeat.

Yeah it's one place up for grabs now. Aldershot, Halifax or us.

Aldershot games:

Hartlepool A

Gateshead A

Boreham Wood H

Dagenham A

They need 8 points to be out of reach, assuming we win all 4. 

Halifax games:

Kidderminster A

Oldham H

Barnet H

Ebbsfleet H

Eastleigh A

They need 10 points from the other 4 games to be out of reach, assuming we win all 4.

Our games:

Rochdale H

Halifax A

Oxford A

Wealdstone H

I think that 72 points might well be enough to sneak 7th. I just don't think we'll get them unfortunately.

Wingers as we know them (Holden/Adams) aren't really a thing anymore are they? It's more wide forwards who cut in etc. Ones that can play in a 442 or wide in a 433/451.

Last summer's recruitment didn't feel like it was recruiting to a formation or formations. He referenced having to play 352 because of the squad but we didn't have a rwb and Kitching apparently needs someone in front of him. So that was the best we could work to. I presume he's already identified how he wants to play and will be recruiting appropriately over this summer.

38 minutes ago, spanishfly said:

Not at all mate, I`ve stuck £50 on at those odds.

That will explain why it's come down to 80/1!