nzlatic

5 minutes ago, League one forever said:

If it’s not tactics then by definition they are definitely ignoring him. Otherwise there is no way to explain their complete and utter non football. 
 

 

Agreed. Direct football is fine if you can see our runners when we get possession and we hit long diagonals or we play our best target man (Fondop) but our direct play is all high through the middle to players who aren’t target men, it has no pattern- it’s literally just smack it. So if Mellon isn’t a passing style manager and his direct style is descending into chaos- what are we? 

 

You keep mentioning a plan- but for me that’s the whole point, we don’t have an identity. For a manager of his calibre I was expecting to see a Micky Mellon side by now- instead we’re seeing non football. 

I don’t think they’re ignoring him, I think they’re just panicking in certain circumstances. We either have no plan, so Mellon is just not actively doing anything at all in terms of coaching or tactics. Or there is a plan but they aren’t carrying it out on a consistent basis. Which is the most likely?

Personally I think the second. In our best performances we’ve employed a mixture of direct and short passing. Eg Garner goal at Maidenhead (direct) and the second goal at Eastleigh (passing move). To me that makes sense as the sort of football you’d expect from a manager like Mellon. But when it goes to shit it is just aimless hoofs. Why do they do it? Who knows but I don’t believe it’s part of a deliberately set out plan. In my opinion it’s the pressure and weight of expectation that they’re struggling to deal with. I owe an apology of sorts to @GKing521 here because I now do think it is an element of mental fragility. I don’t agree with him that the club has a losing mentality permeating through it, but I think some players are struggling with pressure. 
 

That might actually only take a few squad changes to fix. So we might not be as far off success as it currently looks. 

44 minutes ago, League one forever said:

I am saying that what he tells the media and what I watch are two very different things. I’m theorising why that could be, and I didn’t say they were ignoring him,  I said I think Mellon is caving to pressure in the media when he says he wants them to play- and we hardly ever see it. He’s giving very mixed messages. . . 
 

I’ve constantly defended Mellon because up until the last couple of months he got enough results, and that is the ultimate currency. However I’ve been consistently told by other posters that while he is getting results the football isn’t sustainable. That view has now come to fruition. We have played well in patches, with one 90 minute performance- (chesterfield).
 

Teams reflect their manager, and I would argue we have good players that on their day can play in patches. But it’s down to the manager why there is zero consistency to that. What partnerships has he developed? Why do players have good games and are then dropped? Why do we play play players out of position needlessly? It’s combination of a lot things as to why we play some games and don’t the others. But it’s also the result of blatant tactics sometimes.
 

When every ball is played back to Hudson, and every out ball is played high to two small front men. Do not say in the media- I ask them all the time to play. 

When they play like they did first half yesterday, or away at Aldershot or any of the other games where they’ve had a total nightmare I don’t believe that is intentional tactics. That isn’t direct football or long ball football. It’s total disorganised, panicked chaos where they look like they haven’t trained together let alone played together. I do not believe that Mellon and Brabin stand on the training pitch working through patterns of play that involve them passing slowly backwards then just hoofing aimlessly into the middle of nowhere while the strikers chase after it having no idea where it was meant to go. If that was the plan then why don’t they start Fondop every game? 
 

It’s not pragmatic football that just isn’t bringing results. I wouldn’t even know how to describe it. It’s non football. So what is the reason for them doing that? I don’t believe that’s the plan. I think they take it upon themselves to do it under certain circumstances. 
 

Mellon isn’t absolved of any blame of course, he is the boss and he needs to work out how to get them to not do it. But I don’t believe that just bringing in someone who plays it on the deck will suddenly have us climbing the table. I think we’d still be seeing the same pant shitting spells this group churns out regularly. 

3 minutes ago, League one forever said:

If Mellon or Unsy were known for a passing style, I’d be inclined to believe them, but in each case they made their name playing attritional all that matters is the result football- that’s fine if it’s successful. 
 

But again in each case- when the heat has turned up on them, they’ve denied their known style, and how the team is playing and claimed they want us to play. 
 

So- they are caving to pressure and trying to appease by saying the opposite in the media to what they tell the players. 
 

Or

 

They are asking them to play and the players are completely ignoring him. 
 

I’m going with the former. 

But we have had games where we’ve played decent football. Are you saying they ignore him in those games but listen to him the rest of the time? Or he tells them to play in those games, they do it and win so he then says don’t do that again, what I want you to do is aimless punts forward out of defence? And even though doing that is killing our play off chances he persists in telling them to do that each game?

Unless he’s an agent sent by Rochdale fans then that would make no logical sense at all. 

33 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

And there'll be even more pressure next season where we'll rightly be expected to be consistently top 3. This summer we need to fix the gaps in the squad but also need to focus on character.

I’ll add to this - if mentality and coping with pressure and expectation is a problem, then we need to bring in a top sports psychologist as well. 

4 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

I don't believe there is any great pressure or expectation playing for Oldham Athletic, we are hardly a sleeping giant of the sport.

 

We just have too many technically defiect players and a coaching staff unable to both improve those players and mask the defiects effectively enough that it doesn't impact on results.

There absolutely must be! Not in the grand scheme of football obviously, but there certainly must be when it comes to playing for us in this league - where we are a sleeping giant.

We urgently need to go up for financial reasons (loss of EFL payments). The investment in the club facilities by the owners has been done so we can compete higher. We have one of the biggest budgets in the league. Fans have been starved of any success for decades and now can see that investment in the club and on the pitch so expect to see results. The pressure is on the players and the manager to deliver on that. It seems that pressure is too much.

We have plenty of players capable of passing a football. Even if Mellon is wanting a more direct approach, we have plenty of players capable of delivering wins playing that way instead. But it doesn't look like direct football, it just looks like complete panic. Just look what happens when a team puts any sort of pressure on the ball early on in a game.

And there'll be even more pressure next season where we'll rightly be expected to be consistently top 3. This summer we need to fix the gaps in the squad but also need to focus on character.

11 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Whilst everyone (including Mellon) make excuses for them they will continue to play like a bunch of fancies. Some of our players are amongst the best paid at the level we are at and I'll put the manager in that bracket also so what are we actually paying for? 

I’m not making excuses for them I’m highlighting their deficiencies. We need work out who isn’t mentally up to coping with the pressure of playing for a club expected to win promotion and replace them with players who are.

We need players who can handle the pressure and expectation. We don’t have enough of them now and it’s costing us. It’s no coincidence that our better performances are in games where the pressure is reduced - Chesterfield, Barnet at home, our better away form in general. Out of the play offs (reduced pressure) and we steadily picked up points. Get in the play offs (pressure increases) and suddenly they can’t win a game. 
 

Until we do that then it won’t matter what manager we have or what style we play, ultimately too many of them will crack as soon as the heat gets turned up. 

5 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Nobodies been involved in as many games as Mellon, after that hand on heart I bet he can't say he's seen or been involved with a bigger shower of shit in his whole life and it's his fucking tactics causing it the clown.

 

We know there's work to do and we know we won't win every game but I'm sorry it's just fucking stupidity to crack on with those tactics, we did away with it against Chesterfield and guess what we played some fucking football but that wasn't enough to convince Pep Mellon that there is more than one way to play a game of FOOTball.

So Mellon instructed them to play football against Chesterfield, saw they did it reasonably well, saw us go 2 up, saw the crowd respond to the effort even though we drew and then since then has deliberately sent them out to not play that way at all? Despite our form being shit for a month.
 

That makes no sense whatsoever. 
 

The pressure/expectation was off them in that game so they played with a bit of freedom. Simple. 
 

That pressure will be there in the majority of the games we play in this league. It’s up to Mellon to put a team out capable of dealing with it. This hoofball stuff is a red herring. 

Not that it really matters a great deal but I think we’ll win the appeal of Fondop’s red. He wins the ball, doesn’t leave the ground. 

6 minutes ago, League one forever said:

That cuts both ways- 

 

Ok- we haven’t gone up in year one.
 

But to not even be in the playoffs with his record?? 

 

As it stands- he’s underperforming quite significantly, by the standards his record suggests, what he himself said he expects and I’m sure what the club expects. 
 

I wouldn’t sack him now, but he goes if we start poorly next season. Which would be very fair given the backing he’s had and the failure to live up to his record. 

He’ll be under similar pressure if he starts his 2nd season like Unsworth did. 
 

i think we’ll get a good idea of where we’re heading over the summer. There were still some glaring squad issues that weren't resolved last summer. That should be job number 1 for Mellon this summer. 

8 minutes ago, League one forever said:

He wasn’t brought in to be gradual 3 year promotion man. He was brought in as a serial winner. He said himself the target this season is playoffs and he’s failing. . 

If we finished 5th this season and didn’t go up- I would say he’s done ok/met target and definitely deserves another crack next season. 
 

However, to have taken over with us in 13th and now be 9th (with 6 new signings)  is failure in my view. And the trouble is he gets no credit in the  bank next season for moving us up 4 places. 

He was brought in to get us into the playoffs, and It’s results based business. . .

 

He’s under massive pressure next season in my view. 

 

I disagree, to an extent. He’s not an Allardyce type appointment brought in on a 6 month deal. He’s been brought in to get us promoted yes, but giving him a 3 year deal implies the club accept it’s not necessarily something that should be expected immediately. His record shows that given time he usually achieves it. 
 

Of course the last few weeks has been a huge disappointment. Once in the play offs we shouldn’t have dropped out.  But in my opinion that shouldn’t disqualify him from the opportunity to address the squad issues over a full summer. 

23 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Plenty of you, including the decision makers, seem to have been seduced by the track record without maybe thinking about the wider picture.

 

Was he the right fit character wise? You know his football is dreadful to watch, are you and the fans prepared for that? Did the squad need a disciplinarian or someone with a lighter touch?

Track record is all I have to go off obviously. I have no idea what he's like as a person or what the players are like as people, so I am not qualified to make that judgement. Neither are you.

His record is one of success when given time. You and many others now, have decided you don't want to give him time because he's not been a hit in his first few months. Whilst also incidentally, slagging off just about every player on the books. If so many of them are not up to it, doesn't that suggest the manager should get more time?

It's just far too simplistic to say when things aren't going well... sack the manager, replace all the players. He gets a 2nd season for me to try and prove he's the right man, despite how shit they've been this month.

2 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Depends what you wanted, I wanted Williamson and he's doing a great job at MK and got them up the table and playing decent football in just a few months. Mellon was considered and I shared the view a safe pair of hands but fucking hell he's a dinosaur. 

I wanted Daryl Clarke but he went higher up too. 
 

But in terms of a manager with a track record of getting promoted out of this division I don’t think we could have done better. 

2 minutes ago, League one forever said:

It is his job to pick the manager. . 

Could he have picked one with a more impressive cv at this level than Mellon?

1 minute ago, Londonboy said:

Agreed but he's decided on Rhino and Mellon being the best managers to get us out of this league, which have failed..... and sanctioned the signings and money spent.

It seems the whole message board have seen we have needed a more creative midfield, and some energetic youth, speed and width for 2 years, yet we have done fuck all to address this.

It's either DR or MMs fault so which is it??

It’s whoever is in charge of recruitment. Or it’s the recruitment team as a whole. I don’t know exactly what the set up is. 
 

But it’s clearly a more in depth problem that just saying “that guy is to blame, sack him and it’ll be ok”. 

Is DR in charge of signings? I don’t think he is. We’ve employed a coaching team and a scouting team with a head of recruitment. 
 

Just because he’s introduced a stats based element to the process doesn’t mean he’s running around choosing players like Bazza and Mo. 

Just now, True Tic said:

We must have all been terrible in a past life 

Someone sold the club’s soul to the devil in the late 80s. We had our fun in the pinch me years. Probably got another 20 years of this ahead of us. 

Aldershot pumped 4-0 at Maidenhead. Halifax lost at Hartlepool who just got pumped 7-1 at Gateshead. What a league. 

3 minutes ago, True Tic said:

I don’t think there is a horse for us 

It’s a fair point. Hard to ask for better owners, facilities being invested in, a manager who’s had success at pretty much every club he’s managed, a squad with plenty of quality players who’ve had success elsewhere and are largely highly rated by fans of those clubs. 
 

Yet collectively as a team we have not lost the ability to regularly chuck in shit performances and to crumble under the slightest pressure. It’s been the same for years. 
 

It’s absolutely bizarre. Mellon will get the summer clearly, so all we can do is hope he’s identified the issue and will have it fixed for next season. 

10 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

If could see obvious signs of progression/building towards something and it was entertaining to watch then I'd be inclined to give that time.

Finish mid table but we win the passing a lot? I’m not sure that’d wash. 

Just now, Londonboy said:

On 17th October Mike Williamson moved from Gateshead to MKD who were 17th in L2 I think and struggling..

They are now 4 points off Wrexham at the top and stand an excellent chance of automatic promotion to L1.

 

Maybe we backed the wrong horse.....

 

That’s true but wasn’t the Wealdstone guy highly thought of and touted by some as someone we should be looking at? Went to Notts County and results have been awful. 

Just now, BerlinBlue said:

The replay looked worse, it definitely looked like he knew what he was doing controlling it.

oh well. We‘re not losing because of the ref, he‘s just making it worse.

It’s making an already frustrating game unnecessarily more frustrating to watch!

I know Fylde will be taking it easy now but we are showing that we’re capable of playing decent football. But all it takes is for the opposition to apply a bit of pressure on the ball and we become absolutely abject. 

1 minute ago, BerlinBlue said:

I‘m sorry this ref. How he has not given handball there. Surely when it is so obvious you‘ve got to question the integrity of him as a professional.

He’d say it wasn’t deliberate. But I don’t think that’s the rule. His arms were stretched wide. If that’s a defender in the area then it’s a penalty. 
 

Kitching dragged back deliberately off the ball when overlapping into space. No foul. No play on waved. 

2 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Someone with a progressive mindset, someone who wants to play attractive football, someone will add value on the training ground.

 

Who that is I don't know but I know it isn't Mellon.

And how long would you give that guy to build that?