Pidge

12 hours ago, AndyB2 said:

I have a lot better things to do than attention seek on an Oldham message board. This is my opinion. I make no apologies for that. Yes it’s a negative perspective but it’s my view and it’s how I read the situation. 

 

now go and have a wank over that draw against chesterfield. 

 

if you are not ok with my holding a view, then you have a problem. 

 

with thanks 

 

It’s a ridiculous view. 
 

That’s my view.

Aesop would not be pleased!

Complacency usually suggests “self-satisfaction “.

Do you really think anyone feels they have done a very good job?

12 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

They're all playing for a contract. Most of first team aren't 

It’s a big picture and that may be part of it

11 hours ago, League one forever said:

I disagree. 
 

And there’s nothing wrong with it to a certain extent. Lots of very successful managers can be classed as divisive. My way or do one- mourinho. I want him to drive out the mentality weak or the can’t be arsed crew.
 

Just don’t do it publicly- especially in our circumstances at this moment in time. It was and is wrong in my view. 
 

If we had 6/7 players left in contract who he rated and he blasted the rest who were leaving or he wasn’t renewing then no problem. 
 

Anyway.

 

Apologies all- this is the transfer thread. 
 

Back on topic. 

Managers by and large enter a team being careful with comments to players and publicly. They get to know everyone and then, if we aren’t playing well, start being more critical in the changing room. Most continue to be publicly supportive of the team. 
 

Unfortunately with this group of players, to many don’t take well to criticism. Suddenly those players stop putting in that last 10% effort. As it becomes more obvious that isn’t going to improve, the manager goes public to show HE is trying.  We have seen this pattern again and again, particularly the last 2 managers.
 

Somehow we need enough of a core of players who care to win and gel as a team, so those not trying can be left out till they do put the effort in or go.

presently there are too many who don’t care about club, team mates and manager.

2 hours ago, LightDN123 said:

Always knew he was our best midfielder, but my respect went up for him those last few games. 
 

He was the only one that truly looked like he was trying to drag us into the playoffs. He was even apologetic at the end of games and tried to distance himself from the other players.  
 

Clearly had a genuine connection with the club and for that I respect him. 

That is my take. During the season there were many occasions where he was on the bench itching to get on. I think the concern was that he would break down so don’t play him unless we have to.  Then ridiculously IMO, when they did have to play him, they left him on 90 minutes for two games in quick succession instead of working him into the competitive matches with increasing game time. Surprise surprise he broke down proving in their minds they could not rely on him. 

16 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

I suppose the point is that he only puts in the fort when he is looking for a new contract maybe? 

I get that’s what he is saying big dog. I don’t agree with it.

14 hours ago, Pidge said:

That’s a bit harsh as he either wasn’t selected or was injured most of the season. He was fit and selected for a few games at the end of the season because he was one of the only few players that were actually trying, and here we see someone interpreting that effort as “playing for a contract”. Wow! A good example of being a loyal supportive fan.

13 hours ago, Bobledgersheart said:

You can't escape the fact that it looks a bit suspicious as he "recovers" from injury as the season is winding up though !

 

FWIW I'd retain him on a pay as you play basis.

Why are you suspicious of one of the players who actually runs, tackles and plays forward, as opposed to those who can’t be bothered?

Yes he is fragile and is he worth a new contract for that reason, but he is not one of the “I don’t care if I play” brigade.

4 hours ago, simplythemostimportantkick said:

Dan Gardner plays on the pitch (apparently) yet he’s quite difficult to spot until a contract is in the offing…

That’s a bit harsh as he either wasn’t selected or was injured most of the season. He was fit and selected for a few games at the end of the season because he was one of the only few players that were actually trying, and here we see someone interpreting that effort as “playing for a contract”. Wow! A good example of being a loyal supportive fan.

9 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Palace in for a defender from Peterborough for in excess of £15m.  Barnet get half of any fee

Now that’s a proper sell on arrangement ! 50%

10 hours ago, yarddog73 said:

I'm coming round to the idea that whatever happens Mellon will need till this time next year to be properly judged, I know that's a swing in my opinion and some might say that's fickle but some things are stacking up differently for me now, I've been critical of managers in the past when really they took the shit for bad owners and I'm of the opinion now that there is little point gunning for Mellon because our problems run deeper.

 

None of us really care about styles of play and tactics if the results are good and I personally feel Mellon with half a dozen solid signings can deliver that and in this situation we shouldn't be scrutinizing the manager but looking at the deeper issues and the culture that exists which iI have a feeling he's determined to worm out, dirty washing is out now and some of these players no longer have anywhere to hide and if that takes another month, six months or a year to correct then so be it I say. 

 

I'm going to back him after the news broken by Suzanne last week, short of a club statement it answered many of my concerns and gave me an insight in to where the club is at.

 

I think we've hit rock bottom and now I feel the only way is up and I think Mellon has the balls and personality to put the foundations in place even if I don't always agree with everything he does. I suppose I'm coming round to the idea of trusting the process.

I agree with this. Mellon has a summer of talking ahead of him. He needs to be honest with the players who will be in the squad next season and try to get them interested in being involved in hopefully a successful spell in the history of Oldham Athletic and all the personal excitement, kudos and financial benefit that would mean.  It’s an easier task with any new recruits.
 

The complications are many, for example, our best most expensive players being the most divisive and self centred.

20 hours ago, BP1960 said:

 

No, the passing philosophy has definitely come from the coach Chukwuma Akunto. The youth matches I've seen have been high tempo and competitive with players closed down quickly, many are big and strong and take no prisoners.

Yesterday the Latics left back was surrounded by 3 opponents, but his colleagues quickly came to help him out and passed the ball to each other to set up an attack.

No hoof ball was on display throughout the match with the coach constantly encouraging the players, but promptly making tactical changes if things weren't working out.

It's well known I'm no fan of MM and the fact he wasn't at this game and others to run over the youths endorses it even more.

The first thing I'd do is promote the coach to the first team to change the style of play, but I can't see MM doing that as it he seems stuck in his ways.

I can see we will lose this coach and many of the youth to higher clubs which would be a big mistake IMO.

I was talking to some Shrewsbury supporters at the match and they were full of praise for the excellent football from the Latics, that tells me a lot.

 

BP you have identified a lot of the issues we have had with our first team by contrasting with the good in the youth. I’m not sure you are right with your analysis of the reason though.

Players enthusiastically enjoying their football, playing for their friends and team mates. Players desperate to win, players doing what the coach has asked for are, are all much easier in a youth environment. Managing a group of men nearing the end of careers that really didn’t reach the heights that they once dreamed of, is different. (Ask DU who didn’t manage that transition).

MM has to work out how he regenerates a team that cares. Who care for the club, the manager, for the fans and for their team mates. A team that want to make a run just to support a team mate even when they are tired. A team that steps up their performance if they go a goal down.

At the moment all he can think of as a solution is to replace them all! 
Well he can’t, so he will have to get talking to them and pull them in to his plan. 

The worry for me is the lack of insight. 
 

Being excellent at sports always depends on 2 things, ability/skill and then getting the best out of your physical capacity “effort level”.  Most have been selected for an above level of skill by the time they are being considered for a professional contract, so that leaves effort level as the biggest variable. 
 

Getting the teams effort level higher then the opponent is probably the most important ability for a team manager. We have seen that graphically illustrated the end of this season.
 

So what is involved? What motivates a player to make that run in support of a teammate when he is tired already. What keeps him alert and reacting quickly, setting off with maximum effort to get to a loose ball or to close down and make that tackle? Complicated but a manager can learn this if he realises he needs to. 

8 hours ago, League one forever said:

 

Doesn’t surprise me - but on the other hand isn’t there an element of nobhead behaviour in every squad at every club. 
 

Mellon should absolutely drive team ethic and professionalism, but he also needs to pick his battles for the greater good. 
 

When you stack up all the stories this season it’s clear there’s a culture and mindset problem, I just hope he doesn’t alienate the players while trying to maintain standards. He needs them on side. 

I think you will find he has already alienated the players and hence the results of the end of the season. I’m sure he was right to challenge their behaviour, but this group are not all good with criticism. He now has the job of fixing the problem.

The way I tend to see this is that we have a squad on paper who are good enough.  
 

Therefore the problem is them not playing to their potential. MM surely wouldn’t have been implying he needs wholesale changes unless the real problem was that the team just was not putting in the effort required because of “behind the scenes reasons”.  That problem needs fixing.
 

We know he is stuck with a lot of them, and a needs to control the budget. 
So how do you solve this conundrum?  The answer maybe to sideline (or let go if he can) the problem players. Talk to those out of contract that he feels are honest pros and give them his trust to give him their best next season. Then hopefully recruit the players in positions we all need filling with quality.

I’m happy to let MM try because a new manage would still need to solve this.

13 hours ago, oafc1955 said:

Knowing what good looks like is hardly a pre requisite for success ……We all know what good looks like FFS!!

I suggest maybe we didn’t understand what Mellon meant. 
 

There are several players pretending to try to play their best. The difference between 95% and 100% effort, is subtle. Not reacting instantly to a loose ball, not putting maximum effort to accelerate, means being half a stride slower getting to the ball and the opponent has it.

Maybe that message about “knowing what good looks like” was actually for those players who were not playing their best. 
 

Certainly the rest of us could also see they were playing badly, and not trying, so the comment often repeated by MM seems on the face of it, redundant.

I’m thinking his defeated attitude is because the answer to change things is a new squad and he knows he had most of this squad for another 12 months.  It has to be on his mind to get out of this by leaving. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. 

8 hours ago, TwistingMyMellon said:

 

We've already got a Manager who takes no nonsense though..

Very true, and IMO a big factor in why this season has turned to shit. We have to many players which can’t take criticism.  A manager who continued to support the players publicly (in that I include to the media as well as in the open changing room) while challenging them to improve privately, MAY have done better in keeping them from downing tools as they have done this last couple of months.

Imagine the comments on this forum though, if the manager had continued to spout generic meaningless post match interviews.

So we mostly agree we NEED a new squad, but we can’t have one next year. So do we change the manager and hope the next one can stay friends with them all, or do we back the manager for another whole season and probably starting the next season (with his own players)?  A dilemma!

53 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Who Mellon, 100%.

 

Call me what you want I don't care but please don't start piping shit up when a teams gone out again, been comprehensively outplayed and had their bellies tickled, again.

 

We are currently on our worst winless run in about 15 years. Like I said from Royle down they can all get in the bin for me because they are shit, incompetent and have little desire to succeed. A fucking embarrassment the lot of them.

The truth is I agree that we need big changes. The players stopped playing for Mellon, some weeks ago. A quite similar squad stopped playing for Unsworth. Until last week I was hoping they would sort it out and start playing again.  Clearly the fault lies with Mellon’s man management. It also lies with a group of players who have twice, arguably, three times got managers sacked.

I don’t know where we start. By the way the name for someone who hates everyone is Misanthrope. ( I looked it up.)

4 hours ago, yarddog73 said:

Oh dear the apologist has turned up, as a 'club' they've performed piss poor in this regard since Frank walked in the door two years ago, you want to give them another summer without anybody asking a question or receiving any answers?. Something is fundamentally wrong with the recruitment of players yet we appear to be just ploughing down the same route again and again, what's changing this summer then?.

If I’m an “apologist”, let’s give you a name, erm , I’m struggling to find a word for “I hate everyone”. 
 

How many players did you want to retain? You don’t fancy Mellon and now everyone with anything to do with recruitment have performed “piss poor”:

Kind of loosing credibility isn’t it?

13 minutes ago, PeteG said:

I'm not sure whether you get this thread? It's titled - Let the inquest begin! We are discussing what went wrong this season and i'm actually referring to the recruitment during last summer. I've not mentioned 1 signing during the season and also cited other reasons imo why it went so badly wrong.

My apologies, so you were critical of the Unsworth regime. Fair enough. I thought the inquest was about the more recent failure to stay in the playoffs. 

19 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

You don't exile someone and then leave them training in the place you have removed them from...

So you are the manager, what approach do you take.  You have a contracted player who you know you will not pick in your match day squad.

7 hours ago, yarddog73 said:

Now we are a charity...

No, I think you will find we are just honouring the contracts which have been signed.

9 hours ago, daniel said:

We used to complain about unprofessionalism when we banished unwanted 1st team squad members to train with the kids under AL….. 

Actually I used to complain it was bullying. The old regime used to try to make life hell so people would leave or behave in a way which could be used to sack them.

17 hours ago, PeteG said:

It also needs balls to see it through and not pander to the naysayers when you hit a rough patch. It means having the right people in place in the first instance. We appeared to be doing this and I understand mistakes will be made and some people will need to be replaced such as Unsworth but we seem to have ripped up the whole plan completely by getting rid of the recruitment team at the same time. We chased players like Willoughby Lundstram and the lad from Gateshead (can't even think of his name now) yet then went and signed Norwood and Raglan last minute because they were too good to turn down and there agents no doubt came knocking looking for a payday. I'm not saying these weren't decent players but they weren't in the plan and resulted in the above players and the likes of Reid and Nuttall getting little time to play or settle in. Who knows what that did to the squad morale? Suddenly the plan was out of the window and were throwing anything and everything at it. We need a clear plan now and we need to hear from the club officially what it entails so we can all buy into it. Start again but I'm fearful it will be on a much reduced budget now. We've lost 2 years and a lot of potential momentum and goodwill.

You are completely ignoring the fact that most recruitment occurs in the off-season. During the season you will be lucky if teams release their “good and physically reliable” players. 
 

Why don’t you reserve your criticism of the club in this regard until we see how they perform this summer.