Andy b

That's my point welsh gaz. We destroy talent.

His lack of progress reflects the environment he is being developed in. He is indicative of the OAFC culture. If I were him I would be putting in transfer request immediately.

I would hope so but I have no knowledge of what they do or their presence. No direct criticism but simply not really aware of their role. I would hazard a guess that the trust is not having the effect it could. Is it a sop to keep fans happy? Who drives it and its actions in being a voice for fans and affecting change at OAFC?

We need a leader amongst fans to engage with the club on such matters and to explore the prospect of greater fan ownership/control. That is the only way to safeguard our future and give us a new long term purpose.

Early dialogue with the club would be the starting point for me. Understand what it might take to achieve and appetite to explore further the how's and what's. Ultimately some financial backing will be needed to see it over the line but I have no idea of how much.

Fan ownership has to be properly explored and am not aware that it has been to date. What FC United have done is fantastic, as are the principles which govern their operation. As much I despise them. Why could that model not work at OAFC and has it ever been properly considered?

Our recent (20yr) history says so yes. The history of many many clubs says the opposite

There is a Difference between being happy about relegation and viewing it in a positive light via a vie a potential means to an end. It may have to get worse before it gets better my friend.

Relegation can be the making of clubs. That's a fact. It is also a fact that it can have the opposite effect of course. I am willing to view relegation positively in the hope that the former is true in our case. Desperation perhaps but that is what it has come to for me I am afraid. That is the very simple point I am making. It is logical if not universally accepted.

The reason people are not going today is cos they are sick to the teeth of our CURRENT situation. League 1 is currently drowning us. I am not saying relegation is a silver bullet, far from it. My case is that we need to get some sort of winning feeling back into the football club to move forward. Will that happen in the context of continued survival in league 1 where we are clearly out of our depth on all levels. I doubt it. Will that happen by playing in league 2. Not sure but as a business, we are a league 2 outfit at best. We stand a chance of being competitive in that league and getting oldham athletic used to the idea of winning again. Winning games, at whatever level, provides the platform to rebuild momentum in the right direction.

Yes they have fallen over ten years. No where have I said they have not. What I said is that they have not fallen in the last 4 yrs. we are down to the absolute hardcore who will turn up whatever league we are in. I genuinely believe that. Why would watching us play Newport on a Tuesday night when we are mid table in league 2 within touching distance of the playoffs turn people off anymore than the current and very longstanding offer.

Yes new blue but you need momentum. Walsall and burton have both had recent promotions. They 'get winning'. It's an alien concept to oafc from top to bottom. We cannot mount a challenge from a standing start.

Why would our homes crowds drop? The 3.5k that watch us now are the absolute hardcore. Twenty years of god awful existence hasn't turned them away and home crowds have not dropped in the last 4 years as far as I know. This loyal hardcore are here till the death and will continue to turn up in the conference.

So what? Having a club to watch and one which is capable of competing is the important point. What league we are in is irrelevant. Our continued presence in this league (one in which we are incapable of competing in) is solely responsible for our misery as fans and the absence of any sense of satisfaction in watching latics. Stop obsessing about status. Change your mindset and realise what is important about supporting your club.

I expect we will find out whether this theory stacks up or not very soon. I for one am comfortable with the idea of league 2 football and will remain positive about how it could change my Saturday experience of BP

Not saying we will come back up and am acutely aware of 1994 and 1997 but football is about risk and percentages. As a matter of fact you have more chance of seeing your team winning on a regular basis and enjoying your Saturday experience if we are in league 2 - a league far more suited to our crowds and budget. Maybe this argument is my coping mechanism but I am coming to terms with the fact that we are probably going to have to watch league 2 football soon and we need to try and use it to galvanise the club rather than being bitter about it. No reason why budget need change substantially. As per my original post I feel income would not be materially different to today

If we are close to being competitive in league one subject to some minor changes within the club then I am of course more than willing to agree that maintaining our league one status is important. I don't agree that this is the case though. Likewise if statistics say that we are highly likely to free fall upon dropping into league two then again I am happy to accept that maintaining our league one status is the lesser of two evils. Again I don't agree that that is the case. Fans of this club are obsessed with staying in league one. Would watching us in the conference be any less fun? Absolutely not. Obviously am playing devils advocat on that one but fans need to ask themselves what they want out of supporting this club. League 1 (or even football league) survival is an arbitrary measure of stability which in no way translates to supporter satisfaction. It is way way down on the list of things I want out of supporting oafc.

All the risks that people point out are very real. I am not short sighted and realise that league 2 football does not automatically mean we will suddenly start winning every game. Much more has to change within the club needs to change to realise that. However I maintain the view that league 2 football gives this club a fighting chance of being competitive on our budget. That is all I am asking for. There is absolutely no point being in league one if we cannot compete. League 2 might see us free fall. It might have the opposite effect. However nothjng short of going out of business can be worse than the last twenty years so we have absolutely nothing to lose.

It's not only about winning but we need some winning (and a sense of hope) to keep us going. We are severely starved of both and will continue to be starved whilst we remain in league 1 unless new investment is found.

Owning and sense of owning are very different things. I feel a sense of ownership of my local pub but have no legal ownership in it. That keeps me and others going there and creates a happy place that people cherish. I have no sense of ownership of OAFC. Without a sense of ownership people will not care for something or be loyal to it. They will ultimately go elsewhere when a better alternative comes along.

Plenty get promoted from league 2 with budgets similar to what ours will be, even if reduced. Getting out of league 1 on our budget is virtually impossible. I am willing to take the chance in the interest of it giving the club a kick up the backside, as perverse as it sounds. Sometimes you have to hit the bottom before anyone takes notice and does something about it. Our problem is we have never hit the bottom (not in league standing anyway). Slow painful decline and disappearing without anyone even realising. Brighton, swansea, Doncaster, hull are cases in point.

What is the point of being in this league? I'd sooner see us in the conference with a fighting chance of winning

Evening all, I am a new member who has been observing this forum for many years. Our current situation has compelled me to post I would like to hear views as to why, aside from the obvious short term pain of seeing our team be relegated, just why would starting next season in league 2 be such a disaster? What would we lose exactly? Gate receipts? Away followings to BP would be down (no sheffield Utd and the like) but I assure you home crowds will not. If you ain't abandoned the club after the last twenty years then you are here for the long haul and seeing League 2 football is not going to turn you off Commercial income? Can't see it reducing. We have had the match day hospitality of a non-league team for a while which has generated very little income. As above, any business that has wanted associate itself with OAFC over the last 20 years will not be deterred by a relegation to League 2 Profile? The media do not distinguish between league 1 and 2. Anything below the championship is 'lower league' yes some teams free fall but our ability to sustain ourselves in league 1 for twenty years in the context of every decreasing budgets suggests to me that we won't. Stockport and tranmere are very much exceptions to the norm. league 2 means more winning (in theory) and an ability to compete in a league which fits our income (that is the reality), more winning means happier fans = I enjoy watching my team again. Surely that is the only outcome we desire. I care not what league we are in and have no desire to remain in a league in which we cannot compete at the moment. Going down to league 2 has given many clubs in our league the feeling of actually winning in the recent past - something we are so desperately starved of. Swindon, dale, Bradford, Chesterfield, gillingham, Southend, port vale, Scunthorpe, Crewe, Shrewsbury. I would swap the last twenty years of supporting any of these clubs with ours. Relegation could galvanise OAFC. My bigger concern is the managements disengagement with the fans. The fans have no say or influence, no sense of ownership, no sense that this is 'our club'. We can survive multiple relegations but the current disconnect between fans and owners is what will ultimately kill us.