BigfinLatic Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Now, the term "Three year plan" is a term commonly bounded about in football.... simply because it makes sense and is the logical timescale that any manager needs to stamp his true character and tactics on a club.... This is exactly what we are seeing with sheridan... lets put our cards on the table, last year was an utter fluke, we had a squad of 11 players who were a relic of past manager, utterly overperformed, who went on a 4 month run round christmas that just led about led us to stumble into the playoffs... this was year 1, where Sheridan had very little power to influene the playing staff... and had to work with what he was dealt with.... We are now in Year 2, Sheridan has started to stamp his authority, bring in his players.. and bring the team away from the ronnie era, bring the kids through, and sign a talismanic striker whom a team can be built around... Then next season will be year 3 - time for head on the block, and time for marked improvement, and is sheridan is to be a manager worth his salt, needs to be a consistent top 6, or even top 2 side... if we are to fulfil the apprent ambitions of the club... Now i'm not saying i wouldnt have loved success now... but bearing in mind the cards Shez has been dealt I am more than prepared for a season of mediocrity, and some chinks of light - Hughes, Davies early form, the emergeance of trotman and Smalley - and for shez to build in the summer, ready for a serious push next season... I've read with dissapointment some serious calls for Sheridan to be replaced, for me this is again an exaple of overblown expectations, but fair enough in a way from a club who stated promotion was the aim at the start of the season.... for me, I am more than comfortable to wait until next season, get the kids a year older, get hughesy fit, and build the squad in the summer in Shez's true style..... if we are in the bottom half of the table this time next year, then firstly I will be very surprised, but only then would I think that some of the comments that are about at the moment are anywhere near justified... Is giving sheridan a year longer to bring success to this club really too much to ask??? Because working miracles in 18 months really is.... lets get some perspective, realise there are some massive positives, and hopefully get ready for a hell of a ride next season... Incidentally - there is a very commonly used model for the formation of any team - whether it is a working group, project team, group of friends, or indeed football team... surprising how well it fits virtually every sitiation.. Forming - Group of people come together, normally things are really poistive, generally accelerated effort and overperforming (Start of Last season) Storming - People realise initial ideas were flawed, and initial workrate dissapears, dissenters appear... things go wrong (end of last season, start of this-ish) Norming - Dissenters pipe down, people agree on a plan... generally things tick over, without anything special happening, high performers get frustrated. (about now) Performing - poor performers leave team, High performers at optimum, old and new members realise what is exepected of them - Success! (next season) Allow shez 3 years to achieve long term success - not too much to ask really... is it?? KTF!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Thats the on field side of the plan. What about what so many fought the councillors for this season? when is the lookers coming down? we're out the cup and if the wins don't start to flow before the next three to four games then the seasons finished. So when are we gonna see the bulldozers on the off field plan? Time for this club to deliver on all fronts. New playing staff in next 5 days, Bulldozers within the next month and results on the pitch with three weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertie_Dugger Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 The longer we go without a home win,the greater the doubts will become about his ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I never believed that "Season of progression" nonsense that was trotted about during Moore's stint. Nor do I believe that we are progressing at all this season. Truth is, football is such a short term game these days, clubs can't afford to build for the future. Every season, everyone starts from scratch and movement of players is such that each team has a new squad. Anything other than top six this season counts as failure for Shez, especially considering this "top six budget" we are supposed to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirinclassic Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Lotsa phonetic "shuns" up there in BigFin's very valid post. And he's bang on when he says Shez needs more time to do his job Ambition Promotion Progression Formation Expectation Progression Determination Frustration Relegation Resignation Being a Latix fan, or a footie fan in general brings up lots of "shun's". With Shez, from the above list of 10, it's all a mixed bag. What we all want is easy enough to pick out. Is patiencetion a word? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 (edited) Is patiencetion a word Only Mr 'Bouncebackability' Dowie can answer that. Edited January 27, 2008 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 Lotsa phonetic "shuns" up there in BigFin's very valid post. And he's bang on when he says Shez needs more time to do his job Being a Latix fan, or a footie fan in general brings up lots of "shun's". With Shez, from the above list of 10, it's all a mixed bag. What we all want is easy enough to pick out. Is patiencetion a word? ;) Very true! Lots of doing words, and expectant words.... if patiencetion is a word... not may latics fans understand what it means... .... However... i'm not saying I dont agree with a lot of the comments on here... as Lags rightfully says there are more things that could appease the fans other than promotion this season... ... Personally, as my post hinted I did, and probably sill do, ecpect more from this season, but I think shez has easily got another full season before anyone even thinks of sharpening the knives.... however building work having started, and a top 10 finish by the end of the season would do wonders to help that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 (edited) Last season was a fluke? No, last season was Shez inheriting a team with great balance. A good defence, performing wingers, creativity in the middle of the park, a second striker who chased everything and a striker banging them in for fun. What that team lacked was depth and they got tired towards the end of the season. I'd say defensively we are better off than last season but everywhere else we aren't. Lee Hughes is a better striker than Chris Porter, and Porter is the only player who has been replaced. We could have kept Wellens, and we could and most definitely should have kept Warne; I don't see Shez' logic in letting him go. Players like Paul Warne who know their place and give 100% for the club don't come around very often. Warne knew he wouldn't have been guaranteed a place this season like he was last season yet he was still there with his pen ready, you can say "He was a headless chicken" and all that but he was a worker and he was one of the reasons we did so well last season, his link up play with Porter was brilliant. He'd give Davies tough contention of that second strikers place and we'd have more depth. Wellens should have been kept, him an Allott in the middle would be a great pairing, because lets face it last season Macca had that brief spell but apart from that he wasn't reliable and neither was Rocky. If we'd kept Wellens and Warne, got another striker and then Davies (to be deployed as a winger)) and Hazell, Kalala too we'd have been laughing all season long. Pogs Eardley Trotman Stam Lomax Taylor Wellens Allott Davies New Striker Hughes Subs: Warne Hazell Kalala Liddell McDonald Edited January 27, 2008 by Bring Back Pukka Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 Last season was a fluke? No, last season was Shez inheriting a team with great balance. A good defence, performing wingers, creativity in the middle of the park, a second striker who chased everything and a striker banging them in for fun. What that team lacked was depth and they got tired towards the end of the season. I'd say defensively we are better off than last season but everywhere else we aren't. Lee Hughes is a better striker than Chris Porter, and Porter is the only player who has been replaced. We could have kept Wellens, and we could and most definitely should have kept Warne; I don't see Shez' logic in letting him go. Players like Paul Warne who know their place and give 100% for the club don't come around very often. Warne knew he wouldn't have been guaranteed a place this season like he was last season yet he was still there with his pen ready, you can say "He was a headless chicken" and all that but he was a worker and he was one of the reasons we did so well last season, his link up play with Porter was brilliant. He'd give Davies tough contention of that second strikers place and we'd have more depth. Wellens should have been kept, him an Allott in the middle would be a great pairing, because lets face it last season Macca had that brief spell but apart from that he wasn't reliable and neither was Rocky. If we'd kept Wellens and Warne, got another striker and then Davies (to be deployed as a winger)) and Hazell, Kalala too we'd have been laughing all season long. Last season was a fluke... we had 11 players, you shouldnt get anywhere near the top with what was essentially a squad the size of a team... we had typical new manager syndrome... and the first 5 months were a fairy tale until the cracks started showing.... and we finished the season as the team we wer... a mid-table side... On to your other points... certain things shez had actually no influence over doe to budget constraints - Wellens leaving was one of them, so lets not dump that on his shoulders.... The warne one is more interesting, as much as I would have loved to have him stay, i still question the logic of having an aging bit-part player as one of our highest earners... we would have only offered him 1 year, yeovil offered him 2... so pretty sure he would have left in that situation no matter what we offered... Quick quote: "performing Wingers" - at the end of last season taylor was pretty much playing the way he is now... We still have Lidell, he is just injured, which again is nothing shez has done... so by performing wingers that we had last season you must be referring to Edwards... errrr.... yep.... no.... Quick Quote again- "A good defence" - for me our defence is better than last year, we have probs at full backs, but this area of the pitch is the last of our worries.... Quick Quote again: "a second striker who chased everything and a striker banging them in for fun" About one of the only thinbgs that Davies does is chase, and has already scored as many goals as him... I fail to see how this has changed... and as you rightfully post, Hughesy is better than the striker who was banging them in for fun... So, we now get back onto the point of my post, which is that to be honest, we aint to much poorer than last year... we just have a different side... and this year, if you look at a 3 year structure, is all about shez changing the team for his own and building for next year.... how we compare to last year is irrelevant... however we do now need success next year for Shez to be deemed a success... Pointless looking at last year... we didnt succeed, and the team was falling to bits at the end.... it is now all about looking to next year, and what we can do in the next 4 months to ensure every aspect of the club is flying come the close season.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 (edited) Now, the term "Three year plan" is a term commonly bounded about in football.... simply because it makes sense and is the logical timescale that any manager needs to stamp his true character and tactics on a club.... This is exactly what we are seeing with sheridan... lets put our cards on the table, last year was an utter fluke, we had a squad of 11 players who were a relic of past manager, utterly overperformed, who went on a 4 month run round christmas that just led about led us to stumble into the playoffs... this was year 1, where Sheridan had very little power to influene the playing staff... and had to work with what he was dealt with.... We are now in Year 2, Sheridan has started to stamp his authority, bring in his players.. and bring the team away from the ronnie era, bring the kids through, and sign a talismanic striker whom a team can be built around... Then next season will be year 3 - time for head on the block, and time for marked improvement, and is sheridan is to be a manager worth his salt, needs to be a consistent top 6, or even top 2 side... if we are to fulfil the apprent ambitions of the club... Now i'm not saying i wouldnt have loved success now... but bearing in mind the cards Shez has been dealt I am more than prepared for a season of mediocrity, and some chinks of light - Hughes, Davies early form, the emergeance of trotman and Smalley - and for shez to build in the summer, ready for a serious push next season... I've read with dissapointment some serious calls for Sheridan to be replaced, for me this is again an exaple of overblown expectations, but fair enough in a way from a club who stated promotion was the aim at the start of the season.... for me, I am more than comfortable to wait until next season, get the kids a year older, get hughesy fit, and build the squad in the summer in Shez's true style..... if we are in the bottom half of the table this time next year, then firstly I will be very surprised, but only then would I think that some of the comments that are about at the moment are anywhere near justified... Is giving sheridan a year longer to bring success to this club really too much to ask??? Because working miracles in 18 months really is.... lets get some perspective, realise there are some massive positives, and hopefully get ready for a hell of a ride next season... Incidentally - there is a very commonly used model for the formation of any team - whether it is a working group, project team, group of friends, or indeed football team... surprising how well it fits virtually every sitiation.. Forming - Group of people come together, normally things are really poistive, generally accelerated effort and overperforming (Start of Last season) Storming - People realise initial ideas were flawed, and initial workrate dissapears, dissenters appear... things go wrong (end of last season, start of this-ish) Norming - Dissenters pipe down, people agree on a plan... generally things tick over, without anything special happening, high performers get frustrated. (about now) Performing - poor performers leave team, High performers at optimum, old and new members realise what is exepected of them - Success! (next season) Allow shez 3 years to achieve long term success - not too much to ask really... is it?? KTF!!!!! Absolutely brilliant post BigFin!!! Spot on.....again!!! Personally I find myself where I was 2 yrs ago! Sticking up for a manager that has his faults and while I'm unsure on whether they'll succeed and see through their plans, it's only right that I give him the time to do this. It ain't a 3yr plan for me that Shez is on but a 2yr plan which began in the Summer of 2007. When he dismantled the previous managers side to build his own. I do feel Shez is at times quite tactically unaware (plan B I'm hearing being banded about again) and I think he's not the sort to gamble. You have to do that as a manager.....and either succeed and take the plaudits or fail and fall on your sword. Doing neither breeds contempt.....this is where I feel Shez is at. For now....he needs to gamble on the pitch by being a bit bolder when things go wrong. Yesterday, going to a 3 upfront happened far too late and also, sticking Wolfy in the centre of it was a terrible decision as he can only play on the left side of a front 3.....Sinclair just kicked him up his arse when he came on. Also, with our wings being so painfully barren, I would even have brought on Lomax, put Hazell at RB and just said to Eardley to have a go up on the RW.....we were chasing and it might've just given us something to work on. Instead of what we did produce. Off the field, he needs to take a gamble in loaning in some players. Which I'm sure he will. I really don't think the pressure cooker of signing players in the last 7 days would've been as intense were we not facing Uddersfield in the 4th round of the FA Cup. I think a lot (not all) who have made lots of noise about no transfers would've thought like I have.....that not a lot was ever going to happen until Monday, Tuesday etc. next week. If he doesn't bring anyone in though, that will be quite worrying. Then we get to the summer. Like 2yrs ago when we should've given the last man a chance....Shez should be allowed to cut the weak out and add in 3 or 4 more players who will be the platform for success in the next season. And should that fail....that sword once again comes out. Rome never was built in a day.....and Wigan, QPR, Bristol City etc etc etc never got out of this division in 1yr...indeed, all implented 2 seasons of laying foundations in Season 1 and adding the bricks and mortar in Season 2. That, from Summer 2007, is Shez's plan (as was the last mans) and really saying "we're going for promotion" back in July 2007 was a tad silly for me. But if he said anything less, a lot of fans would've been crying out loud. Hence why when I said back then that a top 10 finish was success it was classed as negative. A top 10 finish looks tough at the moment, with the current squad etc. Hopefully in the next few days, that might change. Otherwise Shez has a hell of a lot to do in Summer 2008.....but I and many others will (or should) give him that time and chance. Or we dance in the same circle that we've been round before. Edited January 27, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Absolutely brilliant post BigFin!!! Spot on.....again!!! Personally I find myself where I was 2 yrs ago! Sticking up for a manager that has his faults and while I'm unsure on whether they'll succeed and see through their plans, it's only right that I give him the time to do this. It ain't a 3yr plan for me that Shez is on but a 2yr plan which began in the Summer of 2007. When he dismantled the previous managers side to build his own. I do feel Shez is at times quite tactically unaware (plan B I'm hearing being banded about again) and I think he's not the sort to gamble. You have to do that as a manager.....and either succeed and take the plaudits or fail and fall on your sword. Doing neither breeds contempt.....this is where I feel Shez is at. For now....he needs to gamble on the pitch by being a bit bolder when things go wrong. Yesterday, going to a 3 upfront happened far too late and also, sticking Wolfy in the centre of it was a terrible decision as he can only play on the left side of a front 3.....Sinclair just kicked him up his arse when he came on. Also, with our wings being so painfully barren, I would even have brought on Lomax, put Hazell at RB and just said to Eardley to have a go up on the RW.....we were chasing and it might've just given us something to work on. Instead of what we did produce. Off the field, he needs to take a gamble in loaning in some players. Which I'm sure he will. I really don't think the pressure cooker of signing players in the last 7 days would've been as intense were we not facing Uddersfield in the 4th round of the FA Cup. I think a lot (not all) who have made lots of noise about no transfers would've thought like I have.....that not a lot was ever going to happen until Monday, Tuesday etc. next week. If he doesn't bring anyone in though, that will be quite worrying. Then we get to the summer. Like 2yrs ago when we should've given the last man a chance....Shez should be allowed to cut the weak out and add in 3 or 4 more players who will be the platform for success in the next season. And should that fail....that sword once again comes out. Rome never was built in a day.....and Wigan, QPR, Bristol City etc etc etc never got out of this division in 1yr...indeed, all implented 2 seasons of laying foundations in Season 1 and adding the bricks and mortar in Season 2. That, from Summer 2007, is Shez's plan (as was the last mans) and really saying "we're going for promotion" back in July 2007 was a tad silly for me. But if he said anything less, a lot of fans would've been crying out loud. Hence why when I said back then that a top 10 finish was success it was classed as negative. A top 10 finish looks tough at the moment, with the current squad etc. Hopefully in the next few days, that might change. Otherwise Shez has a hell of a lot to do in Summer 2008.....but I and many others will (or should) give him that time and chance. Or we dance in the same circle that we've been round before. some very good posts here and some very interesting thoughts going on. however if the 3 year plan doesnt work,and at the end of next season were still stuck here twiddling our fingers waiting....we will have stuck by our manager,he will have had the best budget any of our managers has had,we will hopefully still have great young players coming through,providing taylor doesnt get third season syndrome,and trotters 2nd season syndrome. but i cant help thinking we will have just wasted 3 years,aside from the cup runs,as we would be back at square one again,new manager,new players,another 3 year plan. the only bright light would be the development taking shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Alot of sense in there Big Fin. But alot of speculation too. I've never heard anyone at the club talk of a "three year plan". However, I do know that TTA originally put together a five year plan. Off the pitch, you can argue that a good year or so was wasted looking at moving to a new ground, and therefore we're in year 3, maybe 4, so if the redevelopment now progresses to schedule we're not far behind. On the pitch, we may aswell admit the five year plan starts again with each new managerial appointment. Which means next season is year 3 of 5, not year 3 of 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Alot of sense in there Big Fin. But alot of speculation too. I've never heard anyone at the club talk of a "three year plan". However, I do know that TTA originally put together a five year plan. Off the pitch, you can argue that a good year or so was wasted looking at moving to a new ground, and therefore we're in year 3, maybe 4, so if the redevelopment now progresses to schedule we're not far behind. On the pitch, we may aswell admit the five year plan starts again with each new managerial appointment. Which means next season is year 3 of 5, not year 3 of 3. It's fair to say that, with the stadium redevelopment, some kind of plan exists off the field, but is there any evidence that any plan of any kind is being implemented regarding what goes on on the pitch? Seems like message board talk to me. On the footballing side this club has no direction whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) Alot of sense in there Big Fin. But alot of speculation too. I've never heard anyone at the club talk of a "three year plan". However, I do know that TTA originally put together a five year plan. Off the pitch, you can argue that a good year or so was wasted looking at moving to a new ground, and therefore we're in year 3, maybe 4, so if the redevelopment now progresses to schedule we're not far behind. On the pitch, we may aswell admit the five year plan starts again with each new managerial appointment. Which means next season is year 3 of 5, not year 3 of 3. Oh its 100% speculation Garcon, based on some very stereotypical models of classic team building.... but a logical one... agree with what you are saying about 5 years, but for me, if the club keeps bleating on about promotion as BB80 says, then 5 years is too long.... if we were looking to consolidate then fine and a new stadium may satisfy the ambitions of some.... but if the club is to be realistic with thier ambitions then next year we have to significantly improve on the pitch... I'm not saying promotion is a must... but consistantly looking like a top 6 side for the whole season is mroe than necessary if Shez is going to be a success..... its all swings and roundabouts... you create your own expectaions, and if the club keeps saying promotion is the aim, then net season is the watertest.... That sort of answers the point Edh makes.... if for some reason at the end of next season we stlill have lots of potential... yet are still int he bottom half of the league... then that is the only point where we should start to look as to whether Shez is the man to take us further forward... this is probably not even an indication on his ability... just he has done as much as he can and we need a fresh viewpoint... this is a sword created by Shez, and the clubs own owners expectations... But I am still in the msot optimistic of fans bracket.... with a couple fo tweaks I think we will easily be a top 6 side next season.... as I say, i'm not baying for promotion... just a season where we are consistently better than the season before.... Seems like message board talk to me. On the footballing side this club has no direction whatsoever Well... erm... yeah... that is the point of a board... lets strip the post down again... what we are saying is not that we believe there is a clear direction, we dont know this... that is shown by results, and they aint coming.... however we need to give time to show this.... and for me that time expires at the end of next season, not the end of this one.... that is the discussion.... Edited January 28, 2008 by BigfinLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) Like I was saying to people at the weekend. Joe Royle finished 19th in his second season in charge. If we sacked him then, where would we be? Steve Bruce was close to getting the sack last season. As was Taggart in his early days at the scum. Teams can't keep sacking managers- it just doesn't make sense. Shez has a lot of flaws but he is still learning! Maybe he needs some support from someone more experienced to improve himself? If, after next season, things aren't going well? Then we can start talking sensibly about changes. Regarding the development of BP.....I'm sure we will start to see things happening soon. If we had pulled the stand down, won at the weekend and we drew Liverpool at home, what would we be saying about TTA then?? Sometimes we need to take a step back and think logically about things. KTF Edited January 28, 2008 by jorvik_latic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Well... erm... yeah... that is the point of a board... lets strip the post down again... what we are saying is not that we believe there is a clear direction, we dont know this... that is shown by results, and they aint coming.... however we need to give time to show this.... and for me that time expires at the end of next season, not the end of this one.... that is the discussion.... There is no concrete evidence that there is any plan for any season in place. It's words on a screen, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 There is no concrete evidence that there is any plan for any season in place. It's words on a screen, that's all. Right... breeth deeply, and pelase engage the grey matter - read the post - that is exactly what I just said! For gods sake... this is a messageboard for theoretical discussion! I am saying there is no evidence for any progression, but we at least owe it to shez to give him until the end of next season.... Honestly... i'll try using pictures in the future... Words on a screen - honestly.... well done, you have discovered a messageboard... Like I was saying to people at the weekend. Joe Royle finished 19th in his second season in charge. If we sacked him then, where would we be? Steve Bruce was close to getting the sack last season. As was Taggart in his early days at the scum. Teams can't keep sacking managers- it just doesn't make sense. Shez has a lot of flaws but he is still learning! Maybe he needs some support from someone more experienced to improve himself? If, after next season, things aren't going well? Then we can start talking sensibly about changes. Regarding the development of BP.....I'm sure we will start to see things happening soon. If we had pulled the stand down, won at the weekend and we drew Liverpool at home, what would we be saying about TTA then?? Sometimes we need to take a step back and think logically about things. Totally agree.... however, at this time did the club promise to deliver promotion at the start of the season??? Unfortunately you are judged by what you set out as your objectives... (and unfortunatly by some at whay big joe achieved...) Exactly as you say, if we dont improve by next season then we need to look at other strategies... I never said sacking shez at any point, and as you well say, that strategy could be to bring in another more experienced head to work with him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) Right... breeth deeply, and pelase engage the grey matter - read the post - that is exactly what I just said! For gods sake... this is a messageboard for theoretical discussion! I am saying there is no evidence for any progression, but we at least owe it to shez to give him until the end of next season.... If you're going for 'patronising', you ought to at least try not to come up with non-sequiturs. Edited January 28, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) If you're going for 'patronising', you ought to at least try not to come up with non-sequiturs. Ok... so by referring to the use of non sequiturs I premume you are indicating that us giving shez time, has absolutely no relevance to him producing results on the pitch??? Brilliant.... so that is the path all football clubs should follow... right, you have no right to time in the job, as you didnt win your first 10 games.... if that is the attitude every club should take than we really do have a depressing state in our national game... or alternatively just some depressing fans... or indeed is that again a non sequitur??? You must have a great opinion on our motto - Keep the Faith then CJ... faith is all about giving people time to come good.... Faith has absolutely no relevance to anything.... and is probably one of the biggest non sequiturs out there... but hey, I go to watch football with bit more than a morbid obsession on results, and a desire to see people lose their jobs, when there is still potential for something great to happen.... Non bloomin sequiturs - surely the entire concept of being a football fan involves this... as there is no logical relevance for our faith 99% of the time.... and I am very, very sorry that you have no desire to believe there is something better round the corner.... Edited January 28, 2008 by BigfinLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Ok... so by referring to the use of non sequiturs I premume you are indicating that us giving shez time, has absolutely no relevance to him producing results on the pitch??? Brilliant.... so that is the path all football clubs should follow... right, you have no right to time in the job, as you didnt win your first 10 games.... if that is the attitude every club should take than we really do have a depressing state in our national game... or alternatively just some depressing fans... or indeed is that again a non sequitur??? You must have a great opinion on our motto - Keep the Faith then CJ... faith is all about giving people time to come good.... Faith has absolutely no relevance to anything.... and is probably one of the biggest non sequiturs out there... but hey, I go to watch football with bit more than a morbid obsession on results, and a desire to see people lose their jobs, when there is still potential for something great to happen.... Non bloomin sequiturs - surely the entire concept of being a football fan involves this... as there is no logical relevance for our faith 99% of the time.... and I am very, very sorry that you have no desire to believe there is something better round the corner.... What I was referring to was the fact that I never mentioned Sheridan at all. I would like to believe something better is around the corner but until I see genuine evidence of it I'll always find it difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 What I was referring to was the fact that I never mentioned Sheridan at all. I would like to believe something better is around the corner but until I see genuine evidence of it I'll always find it difficult. Fair enough! But I suppose that again misses the point of my post.... oh well, swings and roundabouts.... this it still agrees with the point that the club should not announce they want succcess int he first place, at it creates unrealistic expectations... I was arguing from the start of last season... but if you look from 5 years ago... then I more than see your point... Agreed, it is difficult to see.... thats why the cru of my post is that we need visible eveidence of team and ground improvement by the end of this season... and then some concrete proof next season... then we can all be happy latics! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Just to think less than four weeks ago we battered Leeds on their own patch and outplayed one of the best sides in this country. Shez is upto the job but Bertand and Kilkenny need replacing, Hazell does a good enough job at left-back but he's no good at going forward, Bertrand was. There's no one else really creating chances either, too predictable in midfield and we need a striker in as well alongside Hughes as Davies needs a rest. Shez knows exactly what positions need sorting he just needs to bring those players in like he did before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 It's fair to say that, with the stadium redevelopment, some kind of plan exists off the field, but is there any evidence that any plan of any kind is being implemented regarding what goes on on the pitch? Fair question. I think it's fair to say the 5 year plan on the pitch has changed dramatically during TTA's tenure. First of all they seemed to go for a two year plan with an experienced manager. Year 1 - bring in the players he wants, Year 2 - promotion. At the time they believed that was possible, and that advice from various people in the game (Wenger among others as I remember) would lead them to the right manager. That went badly wrong. Twice. TTA have learnt. So we now have a new 'on pitch' plan, which I believe is longer term and centres on Sheridan growing in the job. Now I know there are many who want to see us go up sooner rather than later, but I am absolutely convinced we need to see this one through. I would give Sheridan a full five years come what may. I believe if we do that we will reap the rewards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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