oafc0000 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) you said you couldnt judge shez this season on results alone........because according to you there has been far too much disruption ie players moving on and getting injured etc etc etc. but players leaving and getting injured is all part and parcel of the game,and it is the same for each and every manager in the league,other teams have had injuries yet managed to outplay us and so on.this is where the manager earns his crust and shows just what kind of manager and character he is. in mine and a lot of other peoples view its been a bad season as the aim was minimum playoffs....so therefor shez should be judged on the fact we didnt make them,forget the injuries and everything else,it really is black and white and we failed....so therefor he is judged on his results this season. the hypothetical question was posed because you cant or wont acknowledge the fact that its a results driven game,and if you wasnt judging sheridan on this seasons results,what would you be judging him on next season. as for arguing with an idiot.....i wouldnt call you an idiot,thats unfair on all the villages up and down the country isnt it People like you and other fans are judging shez on if we made the play offs or not....if you think that is fair and the right way to judge a manager...then fine...I cant agree with it for a second....and I cant respect an opinion that is based on football or life for that matter being so black and white... I personally feel it comes down to a persons ability to judge a situation for what it is and I belive if you think it such black and white terms you dont really posses much thinking power... I continue to judge shez, the players and the 3As fairly on whats happening.....you continue to judge them on if we get promotin or not.... I know one thing, history proves that sticking by a manager for a great length of time usally pays dividends....where as choping and changing very rarely works....your black and white opinion on the world and football dosent seem to be logical when compared against history.... Edited April 27, 2008 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 I know one thing, history proves that sticking by a manager for a great length of time usally pays dividends....where as choping and changing very rarely works....your black and white opinion on the world and football dosent seem to be logical when compared against history.... The table in league 1 this season suggests otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) I know one thing, history proves that sticking by a manager for a great length of time usally pays dividends....where as choping and changing very rarely works....your black and white opinion on the world and football dosent seem to be logical when compared against history.... You just have to look at our own Club , both Frizzell and Royle didnt set the world on fire in their early years but paid dividends at the end BUT after Royle departed Manager after Manager has been and gone. Unfortunatly this is the changing face of football , clubs do not persevere with Managers (and players) ....... those days have sadly gone. Clubs want "Instant" success. EDIT ADDED : >>LONGEST SERVING MANAGERS << and >>LATICS MANAGERS<< Edited April 27, 2008 by oa_exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 The table in league 1 this season suggests otherwise. You cant use that as proof...with every team choping and changing someone has to finish at the top..... Plus im talking about history....not this season.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) You just have to look at our own Club , both Frizzell and Royle didnt set the world on fire in their early years but paid dividends at the end BUT after Royle departed Manager after Manager has been and gone. Unfortunatly this is the changing face of football , clubs do not persevere with Managers (and players) ....... those days have sadly gone. Clubs want "Instant" success. EDIT : http://www.leaguemanagers.com/manager/longest-current.html Thats a great link.... Just look at the top 5 for a start! 1. Sir Alex Ferguson - 22 seasons 2. Graham Turner - 13 seasons 3. Arsene Wenger - 12 seasons 4. John Coleman - 9 seasons 5. David Moyes - 6 seasons All of them have dont very well for there clubs! Edited April 27, 2008 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Thats a great link.... Just look at the top 5 for a start! 1. Sir Alex Ferguson - 22 seasons 2. Graham Turner - 13 seasons 3. Arsene Wenger - 12 seasons 4. John Coleman - 9 seasons 5. David Moyes - 6 seasons All of them have dont very well for there clubs! The longest serving managers tend to be the ones who haven't been sacked, which suggests that they have done a fair job in the earlier part of it The knack is to spot which ones are worth persevering with in the early days. We kept hold of BFJ and he becames a legend, if we'd have kept hold of Sharpe we'd be appearing on Setanta, and I don't mean their Premiership show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 The fact that Shez is 21st longest serving current manager after only two seasons shows exactly what is wrong with football today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) Unfortunatly this is the changing face of football , clubs do not persevere with Managers (and players) ....... those days have sadly gone. Clubs want "Instant" success. Is there ........ The fact that Shez is 21st longest serving current manager after only two seasons shows exactly what is wrong with football today. .........an echo in here ? Edited April 27, 2008 by oa_exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 You just have to look at our own Club , both Frizzell and Royle didnt set the world on fire in their early years but paid dividends at the end BUT after Royle departed Manager after Manager has been and gone. Unfortunatly this is the changing face of football , clubs do not persevere with Managers (and players) ....... those days have sadly gone. Clubs want "Instant" success. EDIT ADDED : >>LONGEST SERVING MANAGERS << and >>LATICS MANAGERS<< Frizzell took the club from the bottom (literally bottom) of the Football League in his first (incomplete) season and won promotion the following year. Three years later he took us to another promotion, after narrowly failing the previous season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Frizzell took the club from the bottom (literally bottom) of the Football League in his first (incomplete) season and won promotion the following year. Three years later he took us to another promotion, after narrowly failing the previous season. I stand corrected a moment of posting madness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 You just have to look at our own Club , both Frizzell and Royle didnt set the world on fire in their early years but paid dividends at the end BUT after Royle departed Manager after Manager has been and gone. Unfortunatly this is the changing face of football , clubs do not persevere with Managers (and players) ....... those days have sadly gone. Clubs want "Instant" success. EDIT ADDED : >>LONGEST SERVING MANAGERS << and >>LATICS MANAGERS<< No wonder they havent a photo for our manager John Eyres....whoever that may be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 The longest serving managers tend to be the ones who haven't been sacked, which suggests that they have done a fair job in the earlier part of it The knack is to spot which ones are worth persevering with in the early days. We kept hold of BFJ and he becames a legend, if we'd have kept hold of Sharpe we'd be appearing on Setanta, and I don't mean their Premiership show. Greame Sharp - 3 Seasons and we got progessivly worse - right to sack him Neil Warnock - greate manager, no money, poor sqaud - Should of kept him Andy Richtie - again no money, poor sqaud, kept us up - Should of kept him Mick Wadsworth - usless manager, made to look resonable by money - right to sack him Iain Dowie - did great for us - sad to see him go....but would have him back for reasons done to boredom.... Brian Talbot - Awful manager, - right to sack him Ronnie Moore - Saved us from relegation, just missed play offs by about 10 points - should of kept him John Sheirdan - Play offs, just missed out, sqaud perfect to be built on for challenege next year - if they shez goes i go because football is just crazy now... So in my opinion out of the last 8 managers spanning the last 14 year we should only have got rid of 3 of them yet 7 of them went on there way.....sorry for thats just madness......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Greame Sharp - 3 Seasons and we got progessivly worse - right to sack him Neil Warnock - greate manager, no money, poor sqaud - Should of kept him Andy Richtie - again no money, poor sqaud, kept us up - Should of kept him Mick Wadsworth - usless manager, made to look resonable by money - right to sack him Iain Dowie - did great for us - sad to see him go....but would have him back for reasons done to boredom.... Brian Talbot - Awful manager, - right to sack him Ronnie Moore - Saved us from relegation, just missed play offs by about 10 points - should of kept him John Sheirdan - Play offs, just missed out, sqaud perfect to be built on for challenege next year - if they shez goes i go because football is just crazy now... So in my opinion out of the last 8 managers spanning the last 14 year we should only have got rid of 3 of them yet 7 of them went on there way.....sorry for thats just madness......... Heres my take on this for what its worth your both getting as bad as each other now, again thats your opinion, your both presenting your opinions as facts. I'm not a mod but remember everyone has an opinion, opinions differ, get over it. RE the above post, feel i need to point out some of these facts are wrong. You cant say out of the 8 managers we should have only got rid of three, for the simple reason we did not get rid of all of them. We sacked 5, 1 is still here, 2 resigned. Out of the 5 did we get rid of, wadsworth, moore, talbot and ritchie. Warnock is debatable, although in the media it was stated we didnt renew his contract, some latics fans will tell you whom had inside info, he would not have stayed anyway as he was basically told there was no money to strengthen the team and had to make do with playing the kids. And remember, Sharp was not sacked, nor was it 'mutual consent', he quit, resigned, went off his own back etc. And for what its worth, given the attitude of the board at the time there was not a chance they would have paid off his contract. And although tactically I personally didnt think he had a clue, and we did get progressively worse, alot of this was for reasons outside his control ie a board with absolutely no ambition apart from cutting costs. Remember, sharp was told by the board to reduce the wage bill, simple as. he had his eye on various players whom would have defo improved our squad (ie Sami Hyppia, Gerry Creaney), but whom the board would not finance. Hence the managers who went via our choice rather than theirs. Warnock: Should have been kept and given a decent budget, would have got us back up. Ritchie: At the time I agreed, after pulling off nothing short of a miracle keeping us in the division with what he had, should have been given a season to show what he could do with a bit of money. If it wasnt for chris m***e he probably would have been kept. Wadsworth: Great coach, but awful manager, as you said, fully agree this was masked by M****s financial backing. Right to go. Talbot: Only half decent with a multi millionaire bankrolling him at Rushden and Diamonds, which is proven as he failed at west brom, failed here, failed at oxford. Right to go. Moore: In footballing terms, I think he deserved another season, as finishing 20th in 2005 then finishing 10th in 2006 is progress no matter what way you look at it. However, too many fans disagreed with that and considering he was sacked on the basis of poor season ticket sales, the amount we were set to lose via season ticket revenue must have been alot more than what we would lose by sacking him. In this sense he had to go. I personally think moore is the only 50 50 one, as there are other arguments ie crap footy huge budget jobs for the boys etc arguments as to why he should go. Hence out of the five that were sacked in the last 14 years, i am of the opinion that we should have actually kept three (warnock, ritchie and moore). Re sheridan, I am firmly sheridan in at the moment. However, if we do not make progress next season, or do not look like we are going to make progress come early march, then in my opinion he has to go. Sheridan has a better budget than alot of teams in this div, true we had injuries this season but when you get the amount we did, you have to take a step back and look at why we are getting them, rather than just instantly assume its bad luck. Sheridan has dropped some clangers this season, however, given the injuries we had, I think he did bloody well to keep us in with a chance of the playoffs for as long as we did. He should be given the best part of next season to show he has learned from his mistakes. If come feb/march we are really not in with any realistic chance of the play offs, I believe he should go, to give any new manager the time to assess the squad, decide who to keep and build his own team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 You cant say out of the 8 managers we should have only got rid of three, for the simple reason we did not get rid of all of them. We sacked 5, 1 is still here, 2 resigned. You can if you waned to aviod writting the eassay you just wrote....dont take peoples posts SO literally.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 You can if you waned to aviod writting the eassay you just wrote....dont take peoples posts SO literally.... see there ya go again,attacking someone for actually replying to your post with a bit of knowledge,who just doesnt 100% agree with your version.....crazy for what its worth,hand on heart i dont mind sheridan being here,cutting his teeth in management,and trying to acheive something special playing the right kind of football. i am however in the camp of,no progress and still playing rubbish football after christmas then things would have to change. under the circumstances he has done well this season,plus points are the kids coming through,nice victories over supposedly superior opponants,and signing up some future stars instead of leaving there contract until some other club comes in for them. downsides are the style of football,the sometimes inept performances,his constant bleating about lack of consistancy and doing nothing about it,and his unwillingness to bring in players until the last possible moment. next season i honestly dont care if we dont go up,providing that the team is playing better football,with pride and passion and putting in the full 90 mins,and we make some decent signings,and he actually starts to live and act by his comments,if were going to have a go at promotion...lets have a go,if its all out attack,lets get at teams,if players still wont listen to him,drop them or get rid...... the point i replied to originally was your comment of people cant just look at football in black and white terms,nit whether i think the manager should go or not.....and you will be absolutely amazed at the number of people who do look at results,and decide he should go,and that come the end of the season,the final table will show we didnt get promoted,so therefor it was a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 see there ya go again,attacking someone for actually replying to your post with a bit of knowledge,who just doesnt 100% agree with your version.....crazy for what its worth,hand on heart i dont mind sheridan being here,cutting his teeth in management,and trying to acheive something special playing the right kind of football. Attack ?? god your soft... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 the point i replied to originally was your comment of people cant just look at football in black and white terms,nit whether i think the manager should go or not.....and you will be absolutely amazed at the number of people who do look at results,and decide he should go,and that come the end of the season,the final table will show we didnt get promoted,so therefor it was a failure. Am I the only one now loseing what actualy ed's point is now ?? First you bang on about how results matter...then you say you wont be judging him on results and then you produce this weird line of nonsense.... your funny...mad...but funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 If there was a specific rule or regulation against acting like a pair of old ladies squabbling over the last handbag in a jumble sale, I dare say this thread would have incurred some moderation by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 If there was a specific rule or regulation against acting like a pair of old ladies squabbling over the last handbag in a jumble sale, I dare say this thread would have incurred some moderation by now. :lol....i saw it first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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