oafc0000 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 see my next post, like I say you and I and I think it was Real have done this one to death I still see it differently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 If their dream is realised and we have a new stadium, with the club financially self-sufficient from non-football activities, I for one will be eternally grateful. I think that's the biggest question mark for most people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepy Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 ...... sorry, got to do it, Oldham Athletic 2004 Ltd do not own the land so it wouldn't necessarily be part of any deal to sell Oldham Athletic 2004 Ltd. not this again, Oldham Athletic 2004 = TTA yeah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I still see it differently not this again, Oldham Athletic 2004 = TTA yeah? ......well more like TTA does not just = Oldham Athletic 2004 but other companies too, and (I'll be carefull how I phrase it) you can't just move assets around willy nilly....... but I'm really not going there again, although I suppose I just have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Some years ago, there was a planning permission to build houses on BP and its adjoining land, and the fear when Chris Moore pulled out was that a new owner would build those permitted houses. TTA came in and have not built houses on BP yetand vowed not to sell BP unless it was in the best interests of the Club, in their opinion. So far they have acted like men of honour. If their dream is realised and we have a new stadium, with the club financially self-sufficient from non-football activities, I for one will be eternally grateful. We await the plans to see just what is proposed for the new stadium. Fixed your comment to make it more factually accurate Diego. A lot of people would argue that building a self-sufficent stadium on the current BP site (or another one in Oldham e.g. Ferney Field) is more in the interest of the club. Failsworth for me is more preferable than the situation we find ourselves in, however, it could be argued that this is because the club aren't in that much better shape than when TTA took over. The thing about TTA is while yes they said they wouldn't sell off BP just for houses and leave us without a stadium they bought a club for a nominal fee and are now down to the least worst option so that they can still make some money and keep their word. If they had more than one plan at a time we might not be in situation where an unpopular move to somewhere very close to out of town is the best option left. I remember people like yourself saying that if we don't get planning permission the club would fold- we eventually got planning permission but we ain't used it (so what was the point of spending all that money to get it) and the club hasn't folded yet. Yes, without them the club may have folded but TTA don't strike me as the astutest of businessmen (they are astute but not as astute as some people make them out to be) and I think someone else may have bought the club if they hadn't. After all none of them were fans before they bought the team were they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I remember people like yourself saying that if we don't get planning permission the club would fold- we eventually got planning permission but we ain't used it (so what was the point of spending all that money to get it) and the club hasn't folded yet.More influential people than TTA failed to spot the Credit Crunch coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Fixed your comment to make it more factually accurate Diego. A lot of people would argue that building a self-sufficent stadium on the current BP site (or another one in Oldham e.g. Ferney Field) is more in the interest of the club. Failsworth for me is more preferable than the situation we find ourselves in, however, it could be argued that this is because the club aren't in that much better shape than when TTA took over. The thing about TTA is while yes they said they wouldn't sell off BP just for houses and leave us without a stadium they bought a club for a nominal fee and are now down to the least worst option so that they can still make some money and keep their word. If they had more than one plan at a time we might not be in situation where an unpopular move to somewhere very close to out of town is the best option left. I remember people like yourself saying that if we don't get planning permission the club would fold- we eventually got planning permission but we ain't used it (so what was the point of spending all that money to get it) and the club hasn't folded yet. Yes, without them the club may have folded but TTA don't strike me as the astutest of businessmen (they are astute but not as astute as some people make them out to be) and I think someone else may have bought the club if they hadn't. After all none of them were fans before they bought the team were they. Only because TTA continue to subside the club from their own pockets have we not folded. I think it's very harsh to suggest they are not astute businessmen, after all they have been astute enough to have made the sort of money that alows them to even think about buying a football club. They certainly weren't fans before they bought us, and I'm sure that the only reason that they bought us rather than Bury or Rochdale or whoever was because of the potential to make money out of the location of BP. But I haven't got a problem with that, we got to keep our club and they got to make a few quid, although the side of the bargain for them I think has long since disappeared. And I still feel that when they fullfill there promise on getting us sustainable they will sell us, but again that's fine if we are sustainable. But I also think that they have become fans, it must have got in the blood now after all this time. New York Boss is often checking out this board, and Simon Corney is at virtually every match....... not the actions of people who are not interested if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 More influential people than TTA failed to spot the Credit Crunch coming. True but that still doesn't make spending all that money on getting the planning permission a waste. I'm not saying it wasn't a reasonable option just maybe if they had put some thought and planning into it not the best one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I still see it differently Said the blind man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigsby Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Some years ago, there was a planning permission to build houses on BP and its adjoining land, and the fear when Chris Moore pulled out was that a new owner would build those permitted houses. TTA came in and did not build houses on BP and vowed not to sell BP unless it was in the best interests of the Club. So far they have acted like men of honour. If their dream is realised and we have a new stadium, with the club financially self-sufficient from non-football activities, I for one will be eternally grateful. We await the plans to see just what is proposed for the new stadium. Jesus h christ,lemming and cliff spring to mind. This club is dying a slow death under their stewardship,if you cant see it then thats your lookout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Yes, without them the club may have folded but TTA don't strike me as the astutest of businessmen (they are astute but not as astute as some people make them out to be) and I think someone else may have bought the club if they hadn't. After all none of them were fans before they bought the team were they. Who? The norweigans that didn't bother or risdale who said we were un-saveable? In truth someone would buy us now, but would they spend money month on month? Would someone be prepared to put more in if we had a new ground with 12k seating and no debt and had moved to a wider market area with better transport links? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Only because TTA continue to subside the club from their own pockets have we not folded. I think it's very harsh to suggest they are not astute businessmen, after all they have been astute enough to have made the sort of money that alows them to even think about buying a football club. They certainly weren't fans before they bought us, and I'm sure that the only reason that they bought us rather than Bury or Rochdale or whoever was because of the potential to make money out of the location of BP. But I haven't got a problem with that, we got to keep our club and they got to make a few quid, although the side of the bargain for them I think has long since disappeared. And I still feel that when they fullfill there promise on getting us sustainable they will sell us, but again that's fine if we are sustainable. But I also think that they have become fans, it must have got in the blood now after all this time. New York Boss is often checking out this board, and Simon Corney is at virtually every match....... not the actions of people who are not interested if you ask me. Where did I say they aren't astute businessmen- I said they aren't as astute as some people make them out to be. I don't have a problem with them making money out of us, the problem I have is with people saying they are in it for the good of the club and will choose the best option for the club. They simply are not they will choose the best option for them first and a good option for the club second but the fact a good option for the club has become so because of their poor decision making doesn't let them off the hook. I'm aware of the passion they have for the club- I saw some of that on Saturday thank you. It will be interesting to see how much passion they have for the club once they sell it though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) In truth someone would buy us now, but would they spend money month on month? Would someone be prepared to put more in if we had a new ground with 12k seating and no debt and had moved to a wider market area with better transport links? I am resigned to accepting the ground move is inevitable. I cannot think of a site more suitable within the brough (unless somebody would allow us to build up in the hills and destroy part of the National Park). I cannot think of a better way to find a new backer in the future than having a debt free business with lower running costs generated by a new stadium, and possibly an increased fan base in part driven by a season or two of cheap season tickets. The proposal is realistic. And I'd rather not play in a 75% empty 25,000 seater arena.. At this precise point in time the owners are TTA. There is no sign of anybody else wanting to take a piece of the action so we're stuck with them. And when push comes to shove they seem to be better than a C*** M**** sugar daddy or a Stockport County style Trust owning the club. I wish they were willing to throw more of their personal wealth in to the football side of the business, but understand why they don't. Edited November 9, 2009 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Who? The norweigans that didn't bother or risdale who said we were un-saveable? In truth someone would buy us now, but would they spend money month on month? Would someone be prepared to put more in if we had a new ground with 12k seating and no debt and had moved to a wider market area with better transport links? Risdale probably saw the better option of Cardiff. The norweigans was something of a hoax if I remember correctly. There are other millionaires someone else would have seen that they could have a mulit-million pound property deal for a couple of quid provided they bought a football club and kept it running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Risdale probably saw the better option of Cardiff. The norweigans was something of a hoax if I remember correctly. There are other millionaires someone else would have seen that they could have a mulit-million pound property deal for a couple of quid provided they bought a football club and kept it running. Risdale didn't "choose" between us and cardiff. He said we were un-saveable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Where did I say they aren't astute businessmen- I said they aren't as astute as some people make them out to be. I don't have a problem with them making money out of us, the problem I have is with people saying they are in it for the good of the club and will choose the best option for the club. They simply are not they will choose the best option for them first and a good option for the club second but the fact a good option for the club has become so because of their poor decision making doesn't let them off the hook. I'm aware of the passion they have for the club- I saw some of that on Saturday thank you. It will be interesting to see how much passion they have for the club once they sell it though? Ok I'll re-phrase, I think it's harsh to say they are not as astute as some people make out. In my opinion Sir Alan Sugar or Sir Richard Branson couldn't have turned Latics around without a redeveloped Stadium...... one which brings in extra revenue streams aside from football to make the club sustainable. We will never survive if we are to rely only on income from football.To this end I don't think TTA have done a worse job than anyone else would have done. I agree with you that they I suspect to they will bid a hasty retreat as soon as the development is completed...... but if they leave us on a sound footing then I've no issue with that. All I know is I'd rather have TTA's than another Chris Moore type anyday of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I think the move is going to happen if we want it or not. I am just hoping what we end up with is better than what has been proposed so far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Jesus h christ,lemming and cliff spring to mind. This club is dying a slow death under their stewardship,if you cant see it then thats your lookout. One could easily argue you are a lemming following a doom and gloom merchants, , without looking at the wider picture. It's so easy to snipe and follow the downward spiral to a self fulfilling propehecy. The better men who say, no we/I can do something to change this get my support every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Risdale probably saw the better option of Cardiff. The norweigans was something of a hoax if I remember correctly. There are other millionaires someone else would have seen that they could have a mulit-million pound property deal for a couple of quid provided they bought a football club and kept it running. There are couple of people around that can prove if there were any serious conteders around. Given the fact the club is pretty much on the open market and had been several times, I can recall only Barry Chaytow and a long shot of John Wardle, but that was fairly optimistic. In the current economic climate the suitors are fewer and farther between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepy Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I think the move is going to happen if we want it or not. I am just hoping what we end up with is better than what has been proposed so far... what do you mean by what has been proposed so far? it isnt going to change is it, we are being forced into accepting a poor 12000 self sufficient stadium run off a few rented out football pitches unless a new owner comes in who wants to throw some money away we are heading for league 2 its depressing how some latics fans are accepting it just for the sake of better facilites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 It's so easy to snipe and follow the downward spiral to a self fulfilling propehecy. The fate of the club is completely in the hands of those who make the decisions. Expressions of optimism or so-called doom and gloom on here have absolutely nothing to do with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 what do you mean by what has been proposed so far? it isnt going to change is it, we are being forced into accepting a poor 12000 self sufficient stadium run off a few rented out football pitches unless a new owner comes in who wants to throw some money away we are heading for league 2 its depressing how some latics fans are accepting it just for the sake of better facilites The plans I've seen include 20 exec boxes on 1 side, a full conference suite on the other, match day dining for 200 in there and futher boxes on that side for them to watch the match. 12,000 seats, roughly 10,000 sq ft of office space, about half a dozen pitches and some land marked "for future" developments. I thought you only had an issue with how many empty seats we were going to be getting anyway? You want something like £4m spending on having some empty seats - not sure if you want it from the team budget or you want the club £4m in debt, buy you never seem to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 The proposal is realistic. And I'd rather not play in a 75% empty 25,000 seater arena.. What you are guaranteed with the current proposal is a team playing in a 75% empty 12000 seat 'arena'. We're already seeing what the town thinks of too many years of hopeless third division football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I thought you only had an issue with how many empty seats we were going to be getting anyway? You want something like £4m spending on having some empty seats - not sure if you want it from the team budget or you want the club £4m in debt, buy you never seem to say. In actual fact he seems to want what I suspect many of the stayaways also want, which is a club endeavouring to emulate north-west neighbours like Bolton and Burnley and have the nous to see that a 12000 capacity stadium indicates that the club's ambitions now seem more in line with those of Bury, Rochdale or Stockport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Who? The norweigans that didn't bother or risdale who said we were un-saveable? In truth someone would buy us now, but would they spend money month on month? Would someone be prepared to put more in if we had a new ground with 12k seating and no debt and had moved to a wider market area with better transport links? If you see a hotbed of sky blues and dirty reds as a wider marketing area then I fear you might have early onset Alzheimers. You can just see them deserting the richest club in the world or one of the currently most successful ones to watch a bunch of here-today-gone-tommorrow third division journeymen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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