GlossopLatic

Club statement

Trying to change the subject abit from the pity party that is the last quarter of this season.

Quite a big change to the FA cup seems to be taking place without consultation of many of the clubs. I do approve of the keeping the competition on Saturdays but what I don't like is the complete disregard of replays and how important they are not just from a financial point of view but from a footballing point of view too. Their is something magical about an FA cup tie in deep winter under the lights at Boundary Park. I'm glad the club have come out and said this and I'm glad other club's are pushing back too.

3 hours ago, JoeP said:

 

Yes, agreed. It also probably needs to be tailored for this level, if York are also using it in the same way. 

 

It is a problem, if we're using it in the way I suspect. It should be an extra tool for recruitment, rather than the main tool. As I say, the fact that we have a collection of individuals, rather than a team suggests to me that our recruitment has been heavily stats/attributes based and it hasn't worked. 

 

I don't mind them trying it and it not working, but they don't seem to have gone back to the drawing board at any point. They seem to be persevering with the way they use it at great cost. 

Which is why this summer is a crucial one for us because we have to learn from those mistakes in recruitment whatever they maybe from the last 2 years. I think the current hierarchy is capable of critical thought unlike the last lot so I think they will learn lessons from this and we will come back stronger.

Marc White pre match team talk

Whiz it through to when Marc White does his pre match prior to the Oldham game he mentions about beingbable to out work us mentions about Hogan ability to win aerial duals and the importance of making the first contact with us it's something to think about but I'm not surprised he believes we can be outworked we have a lack of running power in the team.

1 hour ago, JohnnyPimp said:

I’ve got no idea how it’s used and if it’s at the root of our recruitment issues.

 

I do think it’s worth noting that the two teams in the division using Stats Bomb (us and York), also spent the most on agents’ fees.

 

Causation or correlation?

A possibility yes but not something we know for certain

But the point Im really driving at here is that it's easy to draw conclusions based on assumptions.

What is critical this summer is that we get to the root of the recruitment problem it's a pivotal summer this one for us Get it right and we can really build sone momentum.

11 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

But this is the most potential we've had off the pitch for 30 years! You can't compare where we are now with the last 30 years of decline. 

 

"Something else to moan about" is another man's leaving no stone unturned. How can the stats recruitment model be completely discounted as an issue? We've got an imbalanced squad, who don't really seem to have much team spirit and don't seem to gel on the pitch. That sounds to me like we've just looked at a players attributes rather than the person too. From the outside, it looks like someone's been playing too much Football Manager.

 

Yes, it works at a higher level, but they're teams that can afford to throw 100 darts with the hope one hits the bullseye. We can't. 

It shouldn't be discounted as an issue but as has been said above by you and one 2 others some are rushing to the conclusion that it's the problem.

Success leaves the clues the fact that all the top clubs and athletes across any sport across the world are using data analysis to enhance performance probably suggests they are onto something. It could well be that they are using it properly but we aren't.

17 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

Stats department!! More trendy rubbish, you need a proper scouting network and management who will actually check  out recommendations.

It worked well at Nottingham Forest when I worked for Brian Clough and Peter Taylor, the likes of Gary Birtles wouldn't even be found on any stats database.

 

Yes and we weren't also discussing our football clubs on the Internet back then either I'm sure the Internet was seen as trendy rubbish too then eh?

9 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

Please can you explain how we have used it well and how clubs managed to find decent players without it in the past?

How can you conclude something is wrong without understanding how it works?

Another thread where everyone says the stats bomb is wrong without understanding how it works or how we've used them.

I watched the Apprentice final last night saw the Latics result this morning and have skim read through this thread.

We can have the biggest pity party in the world if you want and say how the players have shit the bed this season and how we've had 3 decades of dissapointment it's not going to change anything. So I'm just going to look forward to next season from here because as a fan their is nothing else I can do.

It's not the fans fault the players have shit the bed in the last month and a half of the season however I'm not sure it gives us the right to hurl abuse either.

While I'm abit bemused at some of the opinions I hear at Boundary Park, which have left me asking what game are you watching I don't think BP has been massively toxic, it only really turned toxic to David Unsworth in his final few games. Apart from that I don't think it's been that bad from my observations. 

I don't think social media helps as it amplifies the noise quite alot too.

1 hour ago, spanishfly said:

Did he/she/they? Wow! 2 people express similar views. A miracle. I bet there's no other 2 people on this board who express similar views are there? 

 

P.S. i`ve just looked at wiseowls profile. Saw many posts regarding season tickets in connection with his/her protests under the ownership of Lemsagam. None exactly like mine at all regarding season tickets. Wiseowl also went to a lot of away games apparently. I can't easily get to away games without help because of a disability. I haven't drunk alcohol for over 10 years and I think the wise bird was partial to a beer. Can we please let this silly conspiracy theory go now once and for all?

I know I know but sometimes you just really sound like him . He did actually say that season tickets weren't a big deal and even advocated scraping them all together.

FWIW Someone once came on here and accused me of being Neil Joy (he lives around Glossop)  we all laugh about that now it even resulted in me going on the podcast and effectively clearing my name.

21 hours ago, spanishfly said:

 

FWIW I don't think the season ticket money is actually that big a deal. It's relative peanuts in the grander scheme of things. We shall have to wait and see whether the people with the money are still willing to pump it in the way they have over the past couple of years (and by that I don't mean on signing/paying average to mediocre players on inflated wages).

 

Fingers firmly crossed.

That's exactly what Wiseowl used to say.

So there are 10 players out of contract let's also say that we get 4 players who are contracted out the door too. We won't sell them but enough to get them out on loan or go to another club where we don't fully pay up their contract but we have to give them something and it reduces the wage bill enough that we are allowed to bring in another player (4 out 1 in) Dallas Sachdev and Walker all go back then you have cleared enough space their easily to bring in an entirely new team. Aslong as we don't slash the wage bill which I don't think they will the Rothwells are going knowhere. Its going to be a busy summer but their is still no reason we can't start next season with a far better side than we have now.

Call me a cock eyed optimist but I'm getting one because I believe we can win promotion next year.

Just now, BP1960 said:

 

I always renew mine. It's the team I follow not the regime.

Mind you if I won the Euromillions jackpot I'd buy the club, make Frank and his family honorary members... and myself chief scout.

You wouldn't sign James Berry?

11 minutes ago, spanishfly said:

This gets mentioned a lot but not so sure it's as big a factor as it's made out to be. I would assume Chesterfield face the same problem yet have lost only one game at home all season, with an apparently dodgy centre back pairing. 

 

Simple fact is that had MM's home form been anywhere near the away form this board would be buzzing with excitement about play-off permutations already. It's made me step back and think a little bit. Is the terrible home showing under MM primarily down to him? Has he been playing into teams' hands by his set up or is it simply we have a woeful midfield that often gets overrun by even poor teams? 

Think you are missing the point slightly those teams are probably up for it going to Chesterfield but Chesterfield have dealt with it we haven't that's the difference.

24 minutes ago, Gentleman said:

 

Just watched this myself. I'd forgotten how much of an onslaught that second half was. 

But it's a storm we weathered one part of getting promotion will be the ability to go away from home in deep winter to clubs who's away ends resemble bus stops not play well and grind out a win I don't mind that.

What we've probably learned is that it's not the only way of winning you have to find wins in other scenarios such as being at home against smaller teams who get men behind the ball, or who see coming to Boundary Park as a big game and are massively up for it such as Fylde and Kidderminster, which is where we have really struggled.

47 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

Does he? Recently, there was only me saying they don't see the hype with him - loads were waxing lyrical about him...

I wouldn't say their is much hype or much waxing lyrical more a case people saying he's a player that has abit of potential.

I've gone for release all except Fondop. That should be enough wiggle room to improve the squad significantly. That's before we think about the contracted players.

I have a horrible feeling that Mcgahey will get another year he shouldn't but its quite possible that Mellon likes him.

17 minutes ago, disjointed said:

Hammond is in this mould and he gets pelters on here. 

Probably because he's a work in progress. I'm just watching Bunch of Amateurs Marc Whites team talk was that you can beat Oldham by out working us. Theirs something in that we are low energy team and the team needs some youthful enthusiasm.

24 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

Isn't it just that only two clubs use Statsbomb rather than only two clubs use stats.  Other brands are available...

Could well be I'm not sure if it is then it's something to think about certainly if other brands as you put it are being used and are working for other club's. 

28 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Yes, fair points there - the world's changing and we've got to change with it.  And we've got to review why things haven't worked out so far.

 

But how beneficial is the new way of working for lower league clubs?  We can't afford all the data scientists, fitness and recruitment people, etc.  Arsenal say, can however afford to hoover up dozens of players based on stats with the possibility of just one turning out to be a world-class player.  We can't.  We need to sign players that aren't risks (I know every player is a risk, etc..) yet have less resources to do it.

 

It's a different game down here - if we're in a position to evolve to the next level at some point, then I'm all for all the different departments and personnel, etc but we are where we are and I think it needs to be fairly streamlined.  It'd be interesting to see how the smaller clubs currently sat above us in the National League work when it comes to transfers - given it's only us and York that seem to be using Statbomb, for example.

 

While the world is changing, etc the human psyche hasn't changed beyond that for a team to work, it doesn't just need good participants, it needs good personalities too...

 

Absolutely it needs the right personalities I'm not advocating signing players purely off stats, for stats and data to be effective they need to be interpretated properly anyway. Their is still very much room for scouting. Thomas Frank at Brentford said that while they use data analysis they still very much use scouting by the eyes as he put it to identify talent.

As for can this work in the national league and the examples of ourselves and York being the only clubs using it suggest it doesn't. My arguement would be here is that aslong as you can collect the same amount of accurate data then their is no reason why it can't be a useful tool to help us find value for money signings. While only 2 clubs use it now its more likely than not that more and more clubs will use it going forwards as it becomes more accessible and more sophisticated. Its important to look at the future possibilities and not just the current results.

8 minutes ago, BradKnowles1 said:

The main problem I have with recruitment we don’t have one sellable asset. You go through the teams around us, they all have someone who they can sell on. 

Interesting point this and one I think we can relate to the fact that we have an old side. Of yesterday's starting 11 only 1 is under 24 that is Sachdev who isn't even our player. I think we need to start looking at young hungry players who can add energy to the team. 

I've said above about the need to embrace change and I very much stand by that but if we can learn one lesson from the past is that signing young hungry players possibly with a point to prove is something that works for us.

7 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

I don't - as I say (again), I'm hypothesising.

 

I'll also say again, I'm open to hearing about how Statsbomb works, put I'm going to make a fairly safe assumption that it's something to do with player stats.  The clue's in the name.  As we've also had/got a stats department, I'm going to suggest a lot of our signings are heavily based on stats - otherwise there'd be no point in the department existing.

 

Is the old-fashioned scouting still a thing?  I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it's not.  Neither is the manager driving the length and breadth of the country to watch a player they're interested in signing, as far as I'm aware.

 

I'm of the opinion that it should be the manager and the manager only who makes the call on signings as he's the one that's going to have to mould a team with them. So if we've got a stats department, recruitment department (previously Steve Thompson?) and the Coach/Manager with an input, it seems like too many cooks to me and you end up with a scenario where the manager has to work with players he might not want, because other people have had an input. 

Again I think you are assuming or as you put it hypothesising on what the problem is. FYI I'm guilty of coming to Conclusions without knowing all the information too so I'm not trying to come from a holier than thou position on this, it could well be that the stats bomb data analysis hasn't delivered what we hoped it would do.

The point Im making here which is critical here is that we learn the right lessons from this and understand exactly why we haven't got value for money based on the actual full evidence rather than any hypothesis.

Youve also got to look in which way the world is going. The one where you are suggesting the manager calls all the shots which the way the likes of Royle Ferguson and Clough no longer exists. Alot of the work is delegated out to people top clubs have an army of coaches data scientists fitness people recruitment people etc. The fact that all the successful clubs are doing this should leave a clue as to what we will need to do to be successful in the future. We can carry on doing what we've always done and praying that doing the same thing will lead to success when it hasn't done for 30 years or we can embrace change and understand that we need to look forwards rather than backwards.

Having come to Oldham for the last 30 years I've watched a team and a town that has been left further and further behind and their seems to be a lack of appetite at times to change things and embrace the future it's time we did that.

3 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Meh, I'm all ears (or eyes..) if you want to let me know how it works...

 

I'm just hypothesising. Recruitment's been crap, we've had a stats and recruitment department, we seem to have signed a lot of decent players on paper, who just haven't gelled.  Doesn't seem beyond the realms that we've looked at player stats, gone "he's got those stats, he's got those stats, lets sign them" without looking at the player as a character..

We know the recruitment hasn't delivered the bang for its buck that we'd hope that's what we know to be definite

But how can you conclude that it's the data anslysis/stats bomb that's wrong if you admit that you don't even know how it works. Who is to say it's not poor scouting, bad recommendations from agents, bad judging from team management?