GlossopLatic

7 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

I don't - as I say (again), I'm hypothesising.

 

I'll also say again, I'm open to hearing about how Statsbomb works, put I'm going to make a fairly safe assumption that it's something to do with player stats.  The clue's in the name.  As we've also had/got a stats department, I'm going to suggest a lot of our signings are heavily based on stats - otherwise there'd be no point in the department existing.

 

Is the old-fashioned scouting still a thing?  I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it's not.  Neither is the manager driving the length and breadth of the country to watch a player they're interested in signing, as far as I'm aware.

 

I'm of the opinion that it should be the manager and the manager only who makes the call on signings as he's the one that's going to have to mould a team with them. So if we've got a stats department, recruitment department (previously Steve Thompson?) and the Coach/Manager with an input, it seems like too many cooks to me and you end up with a scenario where the manager has to work with players he might not want, because other people have had an input. 

Again I think you are assuming or as you put it hypothesising on what the problem is. FYI I'm guilty of coming to Conclusions without knowing all the information too so I'm not trying to come from a holier than thou position on this, it could well be that the stats bomb data analysis hasn't delivered what we hoped it would do.

The point Im making here which is critical here is that we learn the right lessons from this and understand exactly why we haven't got value for money based on the actual full evidence rather than any hypothesis.

Youve also got to look in which way the world is going. The one where you are suggesting the manager calls all the shots which the way the likes of Royle Ferguson and Clough no longer exists. Alot of the work is delegated out to people top clubs have an army of coaches data scientists fitness people recruitment people etc. The fact that all the successful clubs are doing this should leave a clue as to what we will need to do to be successful in the future. We can carry on doing what we've always done and praying that doing the same thing will lead to success when it hasn't done for 30 years or we can embrace change and understand that we need to look forwards rather than backwards.

Having come to Oldham for the last 30 years I've watched a team and a town that has been left further and further behind and their seems to be a lack of appetite at times to change things and embrace the future it's time we did that.

3 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Meh, I'm all ears (or eyes..) if you want to let me know how it works...

 

I'm just hypothesising. Recruitment's been crap, we've had a stats and recruitment department, we seem to have signed a lot of decent players on paper, who just haven't gelled.  Doesn't seem beyond the realms that we've looked at player stats, gone "he's got those stats, he's got those stats, lets sign them" without looking at the player as a character..

We know the recruitment hasn't delivered the bang for its buck that we'd hope that's what we know to be definite

But how can you conclude that it's the data anslysis/stats bomb that's wrong if you admit that you don't even know how it works. Who is to say it's not poor scouting, bad recommendations from agents, bad judging from team management?

1 hour ago, JoeP said:

 

You're right there - which is why this "Statsbomb" nonsense needs scrapping.  It might work for Arsenal, but I can't believe it really tells you anything at this level.

 

You think about successful teams we've had in the past - they were all full of characters.  The late 80s/early 90s sides were full of them.  Paul Warne sticks in my head for some reason. You also had proper leaders like Duxbury and Gregan.  Dux in particular wasn't the most gifted footballer, but got stuck in every week and encouraged others to do the same.

 

I can't see anyone even nearly like that here.  I think it's irrelevant who the manager is, the dynamic just isn't right in the squad.

You appear to be assuming that the stats bomb is the problem without actually knowing how it works or even if we've used it, or used it properly to recruit players.

19 minutes ago, JoeP said:

Can't argue with the interview.. He's being as honest as he can be. Didn't try to kid anyone. 

 

These players have failed under this manager and failed under the last manager. Unsworth tried to bluff his way through interviews, but Mellon is painting a more believable picture. 

 

The problem is we're stuck with a lot of them next year too. I can't see it getting any better. It's not a stretch to think Mellon's been given a dud hand - it seems even more dud than he initially thought. It would need an exceptional manager to get something out of this lot. So exceptional, such a manager probably doesn't exist. It's not worth rolling the dice by getting rid of Mellon. Give him time and see how it goes, but we've stitched ourselves up next season with the players we've signed and contracts we've handed out.

Don't write next season off just yet I think we will have more wriggle room than some think. Just because a number of these players are under contract doesn't mean they will be here next season. I think several will be moved on or actually want to move on in some cases. We won't shift all of them but we might not need to shift all of them. Some of them just need the right players around then and the right team structure to play in and they will thrive.

12 hours ago, 100milesaway said:

Well none of those that came in since look any better.

Thar doesn't make the likes of Willoughby Tollit and Reid the answer.

I saw moments from Tollit and Reid the former I think that's just what he is he's capable of moments of magic but they are too infrequent and he gives you nothing without the ball to make up for it. Reid seems more interested in being a social media star than a footballer. Willoughby has shown nothing to warrant us giving him any game time all 3 will have been told to look for new clubs hopefully for our sake and theirs they find them this summer.

Just on the subject of James Norwood his best form and the period where we put in our best results has come when he has played upfront firstly with Stones but also Fondop 2 physically strong forwards but who will also run in behind and in the channels. Andrew Dallas has pedigree but I don't think him and Norwood work together as a combination. If Kitching is more a left back then get a left mid or left winger who can play infront of him is required and someone who will compliment him. If Nathan Sheron is going to be in the team as a ball winner then he needs people who he can give the ball too.

We need to make sure we sign players who will compliment each other and can link the team together properly. We look like jigsaw pieces from about 6 different jigsaws it's not fitting together.

26 minutes ago, Wardie said:

Not just a different team, different tactics, motivation and I wouldn't be arsed if it was a different manager. What's happened since Kidderminster at home and since Norwood returned to the team?

My problem with sacking the manager apart from the fact that we've got to get away from this cycle of churning through managers every 6-12 months. Is that it would be letting the players who've shit the bed the last 2 months off the hook.

As I've said above I'm not going to abuse them. I'll leave the frothing at the mouth to other people now. But for some of them now their careers in full time professional football could and should well be coming to an end.

It's a big summer ahead of us alot of important decisions need to be made. But despite the last 2 months I'm actually optimistic we'll start next season in a better place.

18 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

But I'm putting out there now a game of football between 2 teams in the 5th tier 1 has only won 1 in 11 and their season is over the other has already been relegated therefore their season is also over won't be greatest game of football the world has ever seen.

 

I mean I'm no clairvoyant but it's not like this wasn't entirely predictable.

Roll on August and hopefully a very different looking team.

52 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

Say this every season. We need to stop making excuses and demand more. 

I expect their to be some Frank and honest discussions in the boardroom between owners board and coaching staff about what's gone on this season why we haven't achieved atleast top 7,  and how they are going to put that right next year. They know full well the fans are disappointed and that we expect more. While details of those discussions should remain in-house it would be good if someone senior at the club fronted up and came out and said that we haven't been good enough this season we've learned a few lessons and we are going to out it right next season purely from a PR point of view. They might take some pelters for it but atleast the acknowledgement and a showing of willingness to put it right will atleast show the right intentions to get it right.

It's also fair to say we've done this debate to death now and most of the threads are going round in circles.

8 hours ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

Something to be real proud of that

Shitshow extraordinaire, what's the fooking point then?

Jackshit to play for then, a theme that's been playing out season after season

 

But that's not a reflection on the fans is it. See I kind of detach myself from My football clubs underachievement as I know it's not my fault or your fault or any other of the supporters fault. 

To be perfectly honest I just want this season to be done so we can press the reset button. Looking at the lack of activity on this thread alot of other people do too. I know we say that almost every year but I do feel that this year unlike most of the last 15 or so is one where we are in a position to put right what went on this season.

19 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Fucking hell let's all jack it in then and sit there in silence at home games in case we upset someones dad or husband, never read so much tosh in all my life, maybe you should go watch crown green bowls or similar.

 

I'm not for booing myself, I've normally fucked off by fulltime this season but I've every sympathy for someone whose paid out another hundred or two hundred quid to follow this shower around and have to suffer what's been served up, more than entitled to have an opinion for me despite what's going on in the rest of the world.

You've really got some anger problems haven't you.

Nobody is holding a gun to anybodies head and saying you have to go to Oxford City tomorrow. So the idea that someone is spending £100-200 tomorrow half of which will be spent on booze and wants to throw their toys out the pram I don't sympathise that much. You are going out of choice.

I don't go to every home and away I don't want too plus I've got other commitments in my life. 

But I'm putting out there now a game of football between 2 teams in the 5th tier 1 has only won 1 in 11 and their season is over the other has already been relegated therefore their season is also over won't be greatest game of football the world has ever seen.

12 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

Probably make him feel better!!

I mean sometimes it's good to get it out the system

But at the end of the day while the current playing staff need to take responsibility for the fall off in form in the last 2 months they are still human beings. They are peoples sons, and brothers some of them are Husbands and Dads to people. We forget that sometimes. It's not like they have intentionally gone out there and tried to lose. 

I'm sure they are honest they could have done more but I'm not going to hate these players it's wasted energy and I actually feel sorry for people who do. Their are bigger problems in the world.

1 hour ago, BradKnowles1 said:

We lose tomorrow I’m being serious I will boo like I’ve never booed before 

I mean you can scream and shout as much as you like it won't change anything besides alot those players will be gone come August anyway.

Somethings aren't worth getting angry about.

Is anyone that bothered now. I mean our season is over barring the shouting. Anyone who's going just enjoy the day out.

Get to the summer and the rejig and let's start a fresh in August.

2 hours ago, andy_b_100 said:

Definately Strachan ... but who was the Oldest scorer od a hatrick in the prem ??

 

Cristiano Ronaldo

1 minute ago, oafc1955 said:

2nd attempt!

I'm not counting last season the club was in a total mess and a promotion challenge was never realistically on the table all that was realistically possible was that we consolidated and turned the sinking ship around.

4 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

It's like England cricket, do you stick with Bairstow who is in a poor run of form, but has a good past reputation or go for a younger player who you hope will come good? 

Kind off

But if we are to use the cricketing analogy one of the reasons central contracts came in was to commit players to England and stop the chopping abd changing of the team which was seen as a contributing factor to the underachievement of English cricket in the 90's.

2 hours ago, nzlatic said:

I’ve mentioned this a few times now so it’s probably getting boring!.. Chesterfield were right at the top end of the table in Feb 2022 when their manager left and Cook was appointed. They’d played 26 and had 54 points. Cook came in and got 23 points from 18 games, they clung on for 7th. 
 

Did he improve them? Clearly not. He hadn’t won anything for 5 years. Did they give him time? Yes. Next season they were flying high but had a bad 10 games and dropped down again. Again, they didn’t panic and they won the league by miles in his second full season. 
 

The 8 above us on the league all bar one (Gateshead) have managers who’ve been there at least 1 full season. The top 4 have managers that are in their 3rd seasons at least. 
 

We just have to give someone some proper time. 

I think overall the majority see this. My major arguement about giving managers time is not that I'm happy with recent results or the results so far under Mr Mellon or even that sacking managers isn't particularly nice but the fact that churning through managers has failed us time and time again and breaking that will be critical to seeing us succeed. 

1 hour ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

I fully understand your point and the vast difference between real life and an unimportant leisure distraction from it.

I give thanks that I'm not suffering in any way, shape or form compered to many but we're talking everything Oldham Athletic on here and not the real world or events beyond our control.

Truth is, I'm totally pissed off to the back teeth of the inability of very well paid advisor's, countless managers and player's, from just rolling up their sleeves, like the man who's paying for it all did and actually showing what it means to represent our club, restoring some pride instead of the embarrassment they're making of it.

That's all.

 

Look it's the first attempt at trying to get promotion it's not gone well but it's not the end of days. We could be at this level for another couple years the important thing is we learn from it.

Look at Chesterfield the first season down here they were fighting relegation in 2021-22 they finished 7th. 2022-23 they finished 3rd and lost out to a penalty shootout at Wembley (I bet that bloody hurt) But this season they recovered again learned more and won the league at a canter.

I'm sure Frank Rothwell had all manner of failings in his early business career some of them could well have been quite painful but he learned his lessons and built himself a successful business it's the sane process here. All we've done this season is find a way not to get promotion it's an opportunity now to learn from that and come back stronger next year. Trust the process.

7 hours ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

All I can say is that it's an experience most of us, don't want to live through for much longer.

Fucking hell

Stop talking like your suffering your not suffering people in The Ukraine and Gaza are suffering.

Since when did we all become such whiney little bitches.

2 minutes ago, Can Neil Redfearn Do It said:

 

I didn't quite describe it as worse I said "possibly more depressing".

 

Is it 1 win in 12 that deyres42 quotes when knocking Sheridan? Well we're about to match it, but from 3rd or 4th in the 20-25 game form table, against a back drop of positivity off the pitch and widespread expectation of our first play off campaign in in 17 years.

 

Expectation and outcome are poles apart this season whereas the relegations - certainly the one from League 2 - were hardly unexpected.

 

Incidentally the outcome is identical i.e. next season in non league not League 2, only this time without a parachute payment or any novelty factor. 

 

There's some perspective for you  

But it's not more depressing is it and its tosh to suggest so unless you suffer from memory loss.

The expectation was top 7 we've not hit it, its dissapointing we've not hit that target it's not depressing. We have a board that are still learning a manager who has only been here what 6 months and a squad whete we've made a few signings sone have worked some haven't. But we are well placed to challenge next season. Both on and off the pitch we'll be better for this experience.

3 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

Safe to say the ex Gateshead manager would have been the perfect candidate for our club but you're correct about Mellon's past glories that might never come to fruition here

Grass is always greener isn't it. Seriously is their another manager at another club who has won promotion twice from this division? His record is better than any other manager in this division with the possible exception of Paul Cook?

Is their another manager in this division who has got 2 promotions from the National League currently managing another National League side?

47 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

 

 

 

 

SIX years ago - the league has changed hugely in that time.

 

He really has shown that he knows the National League hasn’t he?

 

How would you know we've only been in it 2 years?

Are you expecting Phil Parkinson or Dave Challinor?

You sound like an average bloke who's demanding the perfect blonde with big tits who will do all the housework and pay half the bills and will blow you off everyday to just drop in your lap.

It would be really dissapointing if we had to mothball the academy given the circumstances. I would understand why they would do it from a business point of view but from a footballing perspective abd what football clubs should be about it would be quite a sad day if we had to do that.