League one forever

Give over. I’m challenging your point- on a football forum. I have no interest in winding you or anyone up, or tripping people up. That would be sad. I do enjoy talking Latics and I come back to what people type - it’s called debate, and if you read my last post I agreed with you on a couple of points. When I didn’t agree, I said why. Fine. I think we should be further along in lots of different ways on the football side by now, but we’ll agree to disagree. Nope. What I do is follow results, and when we’re winning- I’m delighted. I even defend poor football and very poor home form if overall he’s doing well- which he was. When we can’t buy a win I start to question why- which is completely normal. Did you actually read my last post? I specifically said - this isn’t a sack Mellon thing. I haven’t ‘condemned him’ or thrown my toys out about him for treading water. I said it’s a reflection on what I see as a poor football operation and Mellon is only a part of that. I then went onto say I hope they have a meeting in the summer to clear the air or reset. Never claimed to be wise, nor trying to be clever, that’s a cheap shot. I think recruitment has been largely poor since they came in, you don’t. Fine. Agreed, and I do think he will be restricted by what has been a poor football operation. Hopefully he can wheel and deal.

I was talking about Southend- and how they done well in difficult circumstances, and how we have done poorly in good circumstances. You then said ‘you don’t think our board had it shit with the chuckle brothers’ if that isn’t comparing then what it is? If you’re not interested in Southend, and what can be achieved on a fraction of what we have- just ignore my post? You say this. Then this. (Which I agree with) No manager can build anything if results don’t meet expectation. He has said himself his target was the playoffs. He hasn’t don’t it. So far he’s failed- he might yet come good. Let’s hope so. Eh? It was all we talked about. Unsworth - Why no right back. Why no cover for Kitch. Why no wide players other than green. Why do we keep signing strikers when we are short in midfield. Do we need 6 centre backs. Mellon. Why no cover for Kitch. Why no wide players. Why sign a rwb for 3-5-2 then say he doesn’t have a right back. Why did we sign Garner You may agree or disagree with the above but plenty were questioning the at times nonsensical recruitment decisions. I’m very fair in my expectations- 7th this season without promotion was solid progress. I don’t think that’s unreasonable or being impatient. 12th to 10th is not solid progress, it’s treading water for a club with our budget.

Poor comparison. Our owners moved us away from what Southend are still going through. . . The equivalent to Southend and Maher would be AL still being here and someone like Pete wild doing great job in horrible circumstances. Both our last two managers work for fabulous owners and a settled club. On your last paragraph - I wasn’t make a sack him point. Mellon is just a moving part in what has been a poor football operation for two seasons. Board decisions. Recruitmemt. Player performance. In my view things are disjointed on the football operation. With lots of contradictions. I hope in the summer there is a big meeting between the family, the board, Mellon, and senior players to hold each other to account and have some honest conversations about where mistakes have been made.

Yeah, I was specifically talking about his point regarding Southend. We keep hearing that it takes time, mistakes will be made, we can’t expect to much. . despite the club being in a fantastic position for success. And yet they’re working in an absolute shit show. . but have recruited well on a shoe string, have a good manager, and got the most from their tiny squad. What they achieved this season given the circumstances is excellent. Meanwhile we are aimlessly throwing money at the wall to see what sticks, and in comparison to them our whole structure of recruitment/getting the best from the players/consistency of performance put us to shame.

Knew that was coming.

Southend really have embarrassed us. Awful owner. Club in turmoil. Transfer embargo. Tiny squad, sometimes not able to name a full bench. Above us in the table Would be 5th without the point deduction. Us. Brilliant owner. Takeover nearly two years ago. Big budget - and spent a relative fortune. Massive squad that doesn’t have one contracted professional in certain positions. Finished 12th and now sat 10th. We are massively underachieving.

There’s no denying, that is embarrassing.

If memory serves I think they can sign professional terms at 16. . .

Yeah, good shout. Is there a way of protecting 16 - 18 years olds? The modern day equivalent of YTS? If not, I’d give them all a small contract for a year. £150 a week or something. If they’re under contract we can protect the investment.

Bang on Paddy. We’re not impatient or strange or weird. Any club has a level of expectation- meet it and you get more time. Don’t and you’re under pressure. I’ll never understand give him time without merit.

You can’t compare Guy. Alty and us have two totally different expectations and rightly so. Parky got time, because they were happy to consolidate for a few years. We want promotion asap. The better comparison is to say- would Mellon get time if he finished 7th 5th 3rd- and the answer is unequivocally- yes. This season he has failed to meet the boards and his own publicly admitted expectations. He needs to rectify that quickly.

Mmmm. I think he’s started to unravel, but let’s hope a break does him good.

Good post. Mellon said that Lundy has struggled playing for a big club in the division, and he wasn’t alone. I think you’re right and that applies to managers as well. The challenge of big club in a small pond is too big for a lot of them. I know wasn’t this division. But the only two managers who I’ve felt didn’t seem fazed or under pressure, and consistently looked to galvanise was Dowie and Johnson, surprise surprise both left for bigger jobs. The rest fall into- come in with varying past records - look full promise, then quickly unravel citing- budgets, false promises, what they inherited, defending poor runs. After a while longer they look completely haunted in post match pressers. The closet I’ve seen to Dowie or LJ down here is Williamson, I don’t think anyone else touches him. (For up and coming, can handle a big club, doesn’t seem fazed)

Note to all. Eyrsey loved David Dunn because he was young and progressive. Rumour has it, he set up the first Oldham Athletic Ritchie Wellens Fan Club- but it was disbanded after relegation. His record on knowing a manager and getting the big calls right is unprecedented.

Yeah. What’s your point. . ?

All I’m saying is- it’s easy to advocate for time- until results are poor.

For all those saying give him time- I will await your response if it’s piss poor after ten games next season. . . We all want continuity - but it must come with something tangible. No manager can sustain poor results in the name of ‘give it time’

Re - writing history there. What you had, was posters offering balance to poor football at home. We talked about away form - because it was very good at that time. We talked about the form table- because at that time it was very good.

Yep- totally agree. You’ve then got the new guy - who can say, none of these are my players. .

It’s easy to be wise after the event. . At the time you posted that, we were in the playoffs and the away form was propping up the very poor home form. In numerous games we created chances and played some decent stuff at times- especially away from home. His PPG was good, and overall he was doing well. Since then our form has completely collapsed, we don’t look like scoring, we create very little, and the football is getting worse. I didn’t agree with you then, for the reasons above. But things have changed, and at this time I now agree with you that he has failed this season. If he moulds things in the summer and we start like a house of fire, he gets more time and my backing. If this form carried on- he goes. Opinions change on results.

Yeah, this is where I am. I’m saying giving him the summer - more out of hope than belief.

Yeah, it’s a good point. Take out whether Mellon should stay or go. The next guy is left with same problems. I suppose it comes down to, do we believe that with a summer to mould things Mellon will kick us on. . . ?

I agree with you- no manager can ask for time if results aren’t good enough against the agreed expectation. However, I still think he gets the summer and then we look at it again after ten games. Are you saying- sack him now?

You said it with conviction - which as anyone knows- is all that matters. The actual meaning is irrelevant.

Good post- very balanced. I don’t think expecting playoffs with our budget is unrealistic though. The standard to finish 7th isn’t great, Unsworth took us from bottom four to top half after 3 wins in 17. We’ve had two awful runs this season and can still mathematically get in the playoffs. As you say- reality is a harsh mistress. No manager gets time if they don’t get results or you see progress. He has 1 win in 11. If we start poorly next season, he’s rightly under massive pressure.