BigfinLatic Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 right.. before I start.. lets put a few disclaimers in place... 1. We have no players 2. Shez is still learning... and i'm fully behind him... he is the manager to take us formard next season... 3. greagn and liddell are just back from injury and we shouldnt expect much... 4. I'm a little drunk.. but this would be far worse if you had spoken to me leaving the ground.... BUT ... That was abolutely discraceful... not the performance from the players.. but why, please why, did one of the most terrible tactical decisions happen in the second half... one of the worst I have ever seen... The first half... fine... some good passing football, good movement and we looked like a good team.. we compensated for the lack of midfield movement by the fact we had three in the centre... we looked solid, comfortable, and Taylor and smalley did a good job providing an outlet... we were the better side.. the 4-5-1 suited us, and we utterly outplayed swindon in ever position... fair enough, no goals... but we were the better side, and would have broken them down... Then Jarrett got an injury.. shame he went clean through at the end of the first half and was too injured to shoot properly but fair enough.... BUT.. why oh, why, do you bring on Liddell and rip the formation apart that had worked so well the first half.. and play 4-4-2! We had utterly bossed the game, by playing formation football.. and then you put Gregan and Allott in the centre and get totally overun... plus, you put smalley (our best outlet on the wing) and Leon up-front who never even see the ball... i'm sorry, but fit or not, Lids can play behind the front two... we have all seen this, so why rip apart a formation that had worked so well, and suddenly hand the game to a much inferior side, but a side that had a much higher workrate! We were pitiful in the second half from the start.. they worked Harder, and beat our side that couldnt cope (when we had survived in the first half by more numbers in midfield).. and then because of a stupid decision by shez we were overun... you just dont change a working system... it was so obvious, and the second half was just terrible... I have never, ever been so angry by a tactical decision.. it was just utter stupidity... how can you have an unfit Gregan and Lids in the same midfield 4... it made us look pathetic, and utterly overun, when in the first half we looked composed and comfortable... just bring Lids on in the centre for gods sake, dont strip the team to pieces to accomodate 1 player... The worst one half performance i have ever seen... including luton... and i have to say the blame is at Shez's door - I hope he learns from that.. because the only positive I can see for that is that it will be a learning experience... ... oh... and Liddell was awful.. I have never been his biggest fan, but if he is not fit he shouldnt be in the squad... I would rather have seen a youth player who would work his backside off... that was pitifull... We will win the league next season... but that was awful sheridan.. live an learn! And Gregan is back.. so that is a massive positive!!!! KTF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 so that is a massive positive!!!! KTF! Not wrong there! Sounds like a bad day at the office. It happens. Blood the kids now, (whichever ones we have left that are not injured!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takemeanywhere Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Blood the kids now We've been doing that all season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted April 5, 2008 Author Share Posted April 5, 2008 Not wrong there! Sounds like a bad day at the office. It happens. Blood the kids now, (whichever ones we have left that are not injured!) Mate... you know me, i'm as positive as they come, Luton was a bad day at the office...but that was terrible Tactics.... Fully with you on blooding the kids... but I fully believe that terrible tactics cost us the game today... and the season.... I hope I never, ever see anything as poor as that again... from the players or the manager... I can take a bad day at the office, but poor performace consistently equals losing your job... and I do not want to see that happen...... Time will tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Maybe should have brought Wolfy on ;) Seriously though, sounds like Shez handed them the game. I still think he should be given next season at least, we now have a really good base to build on (Yes I know we did after his first season but Prter and Wellens both went which was beyond our control). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 right.. before I start..... ...And Gregan is back.. so that is a massive positive!!!! KTF! I'd agree with most of that. First half was very even, both sides created a couple of chances, neither side was brilliant but neither were terrible. 2nd half I thought we missed Jarrett when he went off and strangely I think we started with Liddell playing off Constantine for the 1st couple of minutes of the 2nd half and for some reason we switched Liddell and Smalley and it started going wrong! A big gap between the centre midfielders and forwards opened up and we were forced into going long, which didn't work at all. Swindon took their goals well and always had an outlet in McNamee on the left who eventually got the better of Eardley in the second half. Cox took his goals well after an awful miss in the 1st half but our defending slackened in the 2nd half. Crossley was ok, made a good save in the 1st and couldn't do much about the goals. From the matches I've seen he's my player of the season. Eardley had a tough job against McNamee but did fairly well defensively, when people he had the short option his passing was good but it didn't happen often and his punts forward were never going to stick up top. Lomax didn't have much to do but he was tidy. Hazell, apart from maybe doing better for their 1st goal, was his usual self but Stam didn't impress me today, he plays well on decent pitches but if he's going to play in league one he's got to adapt better to the crap ones, often today he dithered on the ball and panicked when under pressure. He's got worse since last year but I still wouldn't mind keeping him on for another year as a squad player as long as he's behind Gregan and Rubes in the pecking order. Smalley was ok in the 1st half but when he was put up front in the 2nd he was blunt and weak, not entirely his fault as he's been thrown in at the deep end this year. I'm not entirely convinced yet but I think he'll do well next year. Taylor didn't have one of his best games today and got a stupid booking after being wound up by their fans, he had two excellent chances at the back post in either half which he should've taken after great crosses from Eardley then Liddell. Allott was, as usual, dogged and quick to close down the man on the ball but he did look slightly uncomfortable when further up the pitch. Gregan did well in his first match for ages and out of position and as soon as we get more personnel on board in midfield he'll be taking Stam's place at the back, loved his first touch back when the ball was in the air with a couple of players battling for it as hung in the air he stormed in and powered the ball forward as if to say "The Gregan has returned!!". Jarrett wasn't very effective when he played alongside Constantine but as the half went on he dropped deeper and burst forward from midfield making himself more of a threat, if he wasn't injured when he had his chance at the end of the half we would've gone in 1-0 up, I think he would help the squad if we signed him next season. On todays evidence there's no way I would try to bring in Constantine for next season. In his defence the service he got was to his head or over the top which was pointless and the pitch was rubbish so holding up play on the ground was difficult but he doesn't put anywhere near enough effort into closing down defenders and moving back with play when the ball is cleared. But the worst thing for me today was when he got his chance at the end he tamely put it into the 'keeper's hands in a lazy fashion, if he's not going to do the dirty work up front he has to make up for it with his finishing and that convinced me that what we have is better than him. Although he may be better player if he played alongside Hughes I'd still rather gamble with (a much cheaper) Wolfy as 4th choice striker for next season because that's all I see Constantine being. Obviously losing him now for this season would be bad because we have absolutely no-one else but that would be as far as it would go for me. Liddell did well when he got the ball and he seemed fitter than I expected him to be considering it was his 1st game back, although as Bigfin said he would have been more effective through the middle. I also think Shez was right not to put on either of the two apprentices as it would definitely be too early but not playing Kelly surely means that Shez doesn't rate him. Negatives today and injuries have definitely taken their toll on our squad but my expectations for next season are huge. Barring a couple of players going I'm convinced that adding 3/4 more players to our existing squad will get us into the top 6 at the very least. The majority of the youngsters that have been blooded this year look very useful and they now know that they have nothing to fear from this league next year especially as the more experienced players will be used more frequently so they will get more rest time. The summer transfer window is massive for Shez and if he orchestrates a clearout then he will start to lose my backing. I don't believe that we will have a better chance to get into the Championship than 08/09 and since I've started supporting Latics the future has never looked brighter! Onwards and Upwards KtF P.S. Good to see BristolLatic and co. outside the chippy today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLatics Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Well, I look at Bigfin's post and would love to tear some of those points made apart. However, he made some valid points. The Jarrett injury was the turning point, however he did nothing to get me going. I wouldn't blame Shez for that loss, but I ask why on God's green earth why didn't we just go there with the "to hell with it" attitude, and attack. We held back. It was 4-5-1 today, not 4-3-3, if we had gone with the latter, we woulda have got 2 goals in the first-half and we woulda been able to see the game out. And, yes, the 4-4-2 cost us. Then again, 4-5-1 was gonna get us no more than a 0-0 draw, and at least Shez wanted to get forward. Don't dent him that, please. I disagree with this first half 'good' performance. It was dull, slow, and wasteful. As was Swindon's. We, however, lacked effort all game, barring a few players. The lads didn't believe in theirselves. Simple. It's a shame it had to end with such a disappointing performance. But that is exactly what it is; the end. The attack on Liddell is frankly ludicrous. What did he do wrong exactly? He was firing dangerous balls into the box, but sadly nobody was there. He wanted the ball on the floor, but the likes of Eardley (oh dear Lord), just punted it upfield. He had a poor game for me. Then again, not a single soul out there deserved much credit, I'll be fair. But Eardley's continuous lobbing on the ball gets us nowhere. Yada ya. Gregan doesn't belong in the centre. He was sound with his leadership qualities, his work rate, he general defensive duties. But the guy just can't play football - he was effective, but he made us pay for silly play for their 2nd. Allott got the blame from the cocky little Welshman at right back. I don't want this to be a moan at the players, even Shez, but today we have to say we lost this game by ourselves. Our fault. Too many players went missing more times than Wally. I'm simply disappointed with the whole team - that includes Shez. We didn't look much of a side, but the fact that we gave their goals to Swindon leaves me furious, but moreso baffled. We've been defensively sound all season, but the lads have just not done their jobs during these past weeks. Why? This has to be answered for me. Let me end with a wonderful quote by Friedrich Nietzsche: "Hope is the worst of all evils, because it prolongs man's torments". Beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 It was 4-5-1 today, not 4-3-3, if we had gone with the latter, we woulda have got 2 goals in the first-half and we woulda been able to see the game out. Not being funny, but how on earth can you predict that outcome just from a formation change. Don't get me wrong, I've said that I'd be happy seeing this formation and that and we'd have more chance to win if we'd adopted this and that but to state we'dve scored 2 goals in the first half from the formation you'd like to have seen.....just isn't anything you can predict like that, I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted April 6, 2008 Author Share Posted April 6, 2008 The attack on Liddell is frankly ludicrous. What did he do wrong exactly? He was firing dangerous balls into the box, but sadly nobody was there. He wanted the ball on the floor, but the likes of Eardley (oh dear Lord), just punted it upfield. He had a poor game for me. Then again, not a single soul out there deserved much credit, I'll be fair. But Eardley's continuous lobbing on the ball gets us nowhere. Yada ya. I was very drunk, and he was an easy target! Didnt see him do anything again yesterday though.. other than stand on the wing and not get the ball, must have missed these dangerous balls, however if they happened after the third goal I was probably looking at the floor, or stand, or anywhere but the pitch.... will let him off today as he blatantly shouldnt be on the pitch, however it was just a stark rmeinder as to how little he contributes to the team nowadays.... ... but as you say, no-one really deserved any credit.... Mark Allott tried hard again... as did ruubes to cover for Stams lack of concentration, and I thought Smalley was good in the first half.... thats about it really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLatics Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Not being funny, but how on earth can you predict that outcome just from a formation change. Don't get me wrong, I've said that I'd be happy seeing this formation and that and we'd have more chance to win if we'd adopted this and that but to state we'dve scored 2 goals in the first half from the formation you'd like to have seen.....just isn't anything you can predict like that, I'm afraid. Well, for starters, Swindon hardly did anything in the first half. They looked a poor side considering they were playing at home. If we had gone into them early on, picked the tempo up, got the ball out wide, and on the floor, we would've created a lot more chances, and more than likely would've made our pressure count. I simply look at how we played at Doncaster and Huddersfield and see that the formation fitted us very well, and we did the things what I mentioned above. Unfortunately, we didn't yesterday. I was very drunk, and he was an easy target! Didnt see him do anything again yesterday though.. other than stand on the wing and not get the ball, must have missed these dangerous balls, however if they happened after the third goal I was probably looking at the floor, or stand, or anywhere but the pitch.... will let him off today as he blatantly shouldnt be on the pitch, however it was just a stark rmeinder as to how little he contributes to the team nowadays.... ... but as you say, no-one really deserved any credit.... Mark Allott tried hard again... as did ruubes to cover for Stams lack of concentration, and I thought Smalley was good in the first half.... thats about it really... Probably walked out after 60 minutes. Not that I blame you. I'd look at 2 of his corners for starters, and I'm sure you'd be happier with a proper ball into the box, rather than the Lomax-to-Taylor short'un? Liddell doesn't have the pace nowadays, so you wouldn't see him repeatedly taking on the full-back. No, I saw him get the ball into the box, from out wide, on numerous occasions. Always a deep ball, seeing as Constantine couldn't be arsed yesterday, to Taylor who was trying to get into the box. If we had someone in there to meet these, you'd notice the danger these balls could create. I've also heard that Smalley was ill during the week with flu, so credit for him. His fitness and stamina wouldn't be there if true, and he didn't stop running, to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted April 6, 2008 Author Share Posted April 6, 2008 Probably walked out after 60 minutes. Not that I blame you. I'd look at 2 of his corners for starters, and I'm sure you'd be happier with a proper ball into the box, rather than the Lomax-to-Taylor short'un? Liddell doesn't have the pace nowadays, so you wouldn't see him repeatedly taking on the full-back. No, I saw him get the ball into the box, from out wide, on numerous occasions. Always a deep ball, seeing as Constantine couldn't be arsed yesterday, to Taylor who was trying to get into the box. If we had someone in there to meet these, you'd notice the danger these balls could create. I've also heard that Smalley was ill during the week with flu, so credit for him. His fitness and stamina wouldn't be there if true, and he didn't stop running, to be fair. Nope - stuck it out until the end... however dont blame anyone who beat the rush to the bar in the local boozers!! Can't disagree with anything you say... however the arguement is not about what Lids can offer nowadays, its whether someone else will contribute more to the team. For me, a quick, direct, skillful wide player who commits defenders (Smalley, or a.n.other) offers far more than the static crossing of Lids.... especially when you have Gregan and Allott in Centre mid.... Lids will never lose his ability to put a ball on a sixpence.... however until the rules are changed to similar to Hockey's, where you can bring on players just for set-pieces... he will never be in my first choice Oldham team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbaines_971 Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 right.. before I start.. lets put a few disclaimers in place... 1. We have no players 2. Shez is still learning... and i'm fully behind him... he is the manager to take us formard next season... 3. greagn and liddell are just back from injury and we shouldnt expect much... 4. I'm a little drunk.. but this would be far worse if you had spoken to me leaving the ground.... BUT ... That was abolutely discraceful... not the performance from the players.. but why, please why, did one of the most terrible tactical decisions happen in the second half... one of the worst I have ever seen... The first half... fine... some good passing football, good movement and we looked like a good team.. we compensated for the lack of midfield movement by the fact we had three in the centre... we looked solid, comfortable, and Taylor and smalley did a good job providing an outlet... we were the better side.. the 4-5-1 suited us, and we utterly outplayed swindon in ever position... fair enough, no goals... but we were the better side, and would have broken them down... Then Jarrett got an injury.. shame he went clean through at the end of the first half and was too injured to shoot properly but fair enough.... BUT.. why oh, why, do you bring on Liddell and rip the formation apart that had worked so well the first half.. and play 4-4-2! We had utterly bossed the game, by playing formation football.. and then you put Gregan and Allott in the centre and get totally overun... plus, you put smalley (our best outlet on the wing) and Leon up-front who never even see the ball... i'm sorry, but fit or not, Lids can play behind the front two... we have all seen this, so why rip apart a formation that had worked so well, and suddenly hand the game to a much inferior side, but a side that had a much higher workrate! We were pitiful in the second half from the start.. they worked Harder, and beat our side that couldnt cope (when we had survived in the first half by more numbers in midfield).. and then because of a stupid decision by shez we were overun... you just dont change a working system... it was so obvious, and the second half was just terrible... I have never, ever been so angry by a tactical decision.. it was just utter stupidity... how can you have an unfit Gregan and Lids in the same midfield 4... it made us look pathetic, and utterly overun, when in the first half we looked composed and comfortable... just bring Lids on in the centre for gods sake, dont strip the team to pieces to accomodate 1 player... The worst one half performance i have ever seen... including luton... and i have to say the blame is at Shez's door - I hope he learns from that.. because the only positive I can see for that is that it will be a learning experience... ... oh... and Liddell was awful.. I have never been his biggest fan, but if he is not fit he shouldnt be in the squad... I would rather have seen a youth player who would work his backside off... that was pitifull... We will win the league next season... but that was awful sheridan.. live an learn! And Gregan is back.. so that is a massive positive!!!! KTF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics Lady Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Some valid points made. Disagre about Liddell - he had a go, unlike most of the others. Also, as much as I love Chris Taylor, thought he was an idiot to let the Swindon fans wind him up, then get a yellow card. Thought we missed Jarrett when he went off - hope he is OK for next week. Think they are just going to amble through the rest of the season, knowing there is nothing to play for. Disappointed they did not put any effort in, being as 300 or so of us made the long trip. Also, Gregan did not work in that position - seemed to be trying to defend as well. I actually felt sorry for John Sheridan - he did a lot of shouting and arm waving, but they were obviously not listening, so he just stood there and let us get slaughtered. I would have given them a rocket in the dressing room - professional footballers, what a laugh. I also predict that Constantine knew it was his last game, before the match started, as he purposely turned to the fans and clapped. Good riddance - he is lazy, never ran for the ball and Craig Davies is 10 times the man Leon is. That tannoy in the away end was gradually turned up to a "perforating eardrum" level, the toilets were diabolical and the seats were cr**. What a waste of money and effort on the fan's part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I had to force myself to stay to the end yesterday, it's a point of principle with me that I don't leave early, but I really did want to. After the second goal it was like sticking pins in my eyes. It summed it up for me that when we heard that other results meant that we were still far from mathematically out of it the general reaction was that it meant we had to put up with more of it. As Basil Fawlty put it, it;'s not the despair I can't handle, it's the hope. Absolutely agree that the tactical change was mystifying, it was crying out for a like for like swap when JJ came off. I felt that we were looking like really getting on top of a poor side and honestly believed that we could have pulled them apart if we'd kept it as it was. Ho hum, this is the downside of being a football fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Some valid points made. Disagre about Liddell - he had a go, unlike most of the others. Also, as much as I love Chris Taylor, thought he was an idiot to let the Swindon fans wind him up, then get a yellow card. A swindon fan's posted on the wsc boards saying that the abuse Taylor got was the worst he's ever heard. Was it really as bad as that? (Sorry to only drag this up a week later, i've only just got proper internet access) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyldelatic Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 A swindon fan's posted on the wsc boards saying that the abuse Taylor got was the worst he's ever heard. Was it really as bad as that? (Sorry to only drag this up a week later, i've only just got proper internet access) In the second half, when we were attacking the home end, he showed a bit of frustration at some of the non-decisions given against their right back. From that moment, every time he touched the ball there were boos, name-calling and what have you, and constant chant of 'Taylor, Taylor what's the score'. It wasn't that bad, something we often do to away teams at BP. Sadly, Taylor got himself wound up and received a silly booking for dissent towards the end, which gave further ammunition to home crowd. Glad he and the team got over it quickly, and Taylor took his goal well against Leyton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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