boboafc Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 What's going on in england, why is eveyone afraid of insulting muslims? the bible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Until they put it in the fiction section where it belongs I'm not intereted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Until they put it in the fiction section were it belongs I'm not intereted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Until they put it in the fiction section were it belongs I'm not intereted! Either the astronomy section or a museum would be more fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Either the astronomy section or a museum would be more fitting. Astronomy? Museum? No understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Astronomy? Museum? No understand. Museum because all religions are nothing but methods of social control, which ought to be out of date by now. Astronomy because Christianity and Judasim derive from sun and star worshipping Pagan religions. The bible is nothing but personifications of astronomical occurances, and is largely plagerised. If you would like to know more the documentary 'Zeitgeist' is an excellent starting point. Zeitgeist Any bible bashers clicking the link prepare to have your faith tested.... Or maybe I'm the gullible one.... *Oh and 9/11 was clearly an inside job and our entire monetary system is flawed (to say the least) and goes some way to explaining todays economic crisis, as well as others that have taken place.* Wholesome viewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I see where you are coming from, but personally I wouldn't associate it the sciences - it's just not right... DO NOT VIEW THIS IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED! It is safe for work, but religious people will be offended very easily I imagine - It's our old friends Penn and Teller! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 What's going on in england, why is eveyone afraid of insulting muslims? the bible Bob you are being reactionary and judgemental, have you read the article? This is typical Daily Mail Islamaphobic rubbish that's done its job. The piece only just manages to provide the reader with the fact that, and I quote: "...that all holy books should be treated equally and go on the top shelf together.", but it does a better job of attracting interest from all the wrong people.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I see where you are coming from, but personally I wouldn't associate it the sciences - it's just not right... DO NOT VIEW THIS IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED! It is safe for work, but religious people will be offended very easily I imagine - It's our old friends Penn and Teller! I LOVE Penn & Teller's TV Show, it's the business... when you watch documentarys normally you (well, I) scream at the TV pointing out the stupidity of how polite the documentarian is being... He just does the screaming for me. Excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) I see where you are coming from, but personally I wouldn't associate it the sciences - it's just not right... DO NOT VIEW THIS IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED! It is safe for work, but religious people will be offended very easily I imagine - It's our old friends Penn and Teller! I shall watch it tonight Rummy, youtube is blocked at work (and I'm working ) even though google video isn't. I wasn't being deadly serious about putting the bible in an astronomy section, I suppose I was just looking for somebody to ask why I make the connection. I wouldn't even have them in libraries - there is too much sensitivity around things like that as Bob's link shows. What does it matter which shelf they are on???? If they cause a problem remove them. Edited February 18, 2009 by Stitch_KTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'm all for it, it should mean that the rhythm pamphlets are displayed at a more reachable height, thus removed the discrimination against randy but single dwarves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'm all for it, it should mean that the rhythm pamphlets are displayed at a more reachable height, thus removed the discrimination against randy but single dwarves. I had never looked at it that way - it's a valid point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killens_physio Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Bob you are being reactionary and judgemental, have you read the article? This is typical Daily Mail Islamaphobic rubbish that's done its job. The piece only just manages to provide the reader with the fact that, and I quote: "...that all holy books should be treated equally and go on the top shelf together.", but it does a better job of attracting interest from all the wrong people.... To be honest i think the Daily Mail gets a rough deal from people. It is the only paper i have read that dares to tell things like they are. I would rather read that than the rubbish you get in papers like the Guardian which is all pro Gormless Brown and is basically a mouth piece for Labour and their communist/socialist crap. Im not saying the Daily Mail is faultless as every paper has its bad points, but just anything pro-labour just happens to have more cons than any other. The Mail seems to be the only paper and perhaps maybe the Express as well that have the balls to stand up to all the PC clap trap which seems to surround us nowadays. Still my one gripe with the mail is that the sports section is still very keen to jump on the Leeds bandwagon. Its a breaking story for them......Leeds arent a big club! As for the fiction section for the bible, well that may be so but religion is not so much about praying to God everyday but a morals that this country is based on. Its no coincidence that since religion has been shunned that society has fallen apart, and for that reason (and im not a bible basher) the bible should be celebrated rather than seen as an offence to anyone else. Thing is if someone said they were sticking the Koran on the top shelf you could be sure that there would be idiots with placards saying 'Death to those in libraries who put the koran on the top shelf'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 To be honest i think the Daily Mail gets a rough deal from people. It is the only paper i have read that dares to tell things like they are. ... the bible should be celebrated rather than seen as an offence to anyone else. Thing is if someone said they were sticking the Koran on the top shelf you could be sure that there would be idiots with placards saying 'Death to those in libraries who put the koran on the top shelf'! Ah. You see, this puts your liking of the Daily Mail into context. Because like everyone else who likes the Daily Mail because it "dares to tell things how they are" you seem incapable of getting beyond the headline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Museum because all religions are nothing but methods of social control, which ought to be out of date by now. Astronomy because Christianity and Judasim derive from sun and star worshipping Pagan religions. The bible is nothing but personifications of astronomical occurances, and is largely plagerised. If you would like to know more the documentary 'Zeitgeist' is an excellent starting point. Zeitgeist Any bible bashers clicking the link prepare to have your faith tested.... Or maybe I'm the gullible one.... *Oh and 9/11 was clearly an inside job and our entire monetary system is flawed (to say the least) and goes some way to explaining todays economic crisis, as well as others that have taken place.* Wholesome viewing. Zeitgeist is very poor and has a million holes in it. They don’t cite where they get their information from in most parts which makes it about as credible as a flying armadillo. My favourite bit is the claim that the twin towers fell at free fall speed yet you can clearly see debris falling faster than the floors falling down??? How does that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Zeitgeist is very poor and has a million holes in it. They don’t cite where they get their information from in most parts which makes it about as credible as a flying armadillo. My favourite bit is the claim that the twin towers fell at free fall speed yet you can clearly see debris falling faster than the floors falling down??? How does that work? They cite many sources, and you can research others yourself. A lot of the sources are presented directly as the point, and to reference all of them would make what is already a two hour documentary a lot longer! Different things have different free fall speeds.....go and look up 'terminal velocity'. Also, if what they are preaching is to be believed, other forces other than gravity were acting on what was falling. Anyway, you're being pedantic.....it's near enough free fall speed FFS. Go and find another favourite hole out of the million. I'd genuinelly be interested to find some good counter arguments/explantions but despite trawling the internet haven't yet found any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Ah. You see, this puts your liking of the Daily Mail into context. Because like everyone else who likes the Daily Mail because it "dares to tell things how they are" you seem incapable of getting beyond the headline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chaplain Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Museum because all religions are nothing but methods of social control, which ought to be out of date by now. Astronomy because Christianity and Judasim derive from sun and star worshipping Pagan religions. The bible is nothing but personifications of astronomical occurances, and is largely plagerised. If you would like to know more the documentary 'Zeitgeist' is an excellent starting point. Zeitgeist Any bible bashers clicking the link prepare to have your faith tested.... Or maybe I'm the gullible one.... Hey, thanks for the link to this. I needed a good laugh! It's great. I've only had time to listen to the first 15 minutes or so, but just to keep you going: "This is Horus. He is the Sun God of Egypt of around 3000 BC" - they say. No. Ra was the sun god of Egypt around 3000 BC, not Horus. I think Horus was the god of the sky. And the way they change "Sun God" to "Sun of God" to make it sound like something to do with Jesus as "Son of God" is very funny. The implication is clear. All ancient Egyptians clearly spoke English. "Horus was born on December 25th of the virgin Isis-Meri. His birth was accompanied by a star in the east, which in turn, three kings followed to locate and adorn the new-born saviour." - they say. No. He was said to be born in August not December - using the modern calendar. His mother was not a virgin, he was conceived when Isis (his mum) and Osiris "consorted together" according to Plutarch. And the star in the east and the three kings are found in no ancient Egyptian manuscripts that I am aware of. They cite no sources in the film, so we are left deciding whether to believe them or not. Dare I suggest you might be right about being gullible? No offence intended. By the way the Bible never calls the magi kings, nor does it tell us how many there were. I think the writer of the film has made up a "fact" which he thinks is in the Bible in order to debunk it. He should have read his Bible more carefully. Maybe he couldn't reach it off the top shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 And anyway, historians generally tend to agree that Jesus of Nazareth was probably born in October... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Let's not degenerate this into a Christian bashing free-for-all, okay I posted the Penn & Teller BS piece, and to be truthful it is spot on from a skeptics point of view. However, I think this discussion should be a commentary on the pathetic piece of journalism that we've read at the top of the post. It was interesting that Killens_physio presumably read the article from top to bottom, and read the post on the thread before comment. Even then Killens_physio did not pick up on the line (in fact I had to read it again to make sure I didn't imagine it) about all holy works being equal and will be placed on an equal level. For the skeptics (US.sp) out there like me or those who would like to know more about critical thinking and skepticism, you can do no better than visiting my favourite website Skeptics Guide to the Universe - Google it now and download some of the podcasts. It's chaired and produced by a nuerologist Dr. Steven Novella and regularly has articles on from other scientists, sometimes they even go head to head with a creationist, or somebody flogging homeopathy - it really is very interesting. Those who prefer to watch go to youtube and watch all the Penn & Teller BS clips, these guys take no prisoners... With reference to the 9/11 debate - Ackey knows what I'm going to say now - use Occam's Razor, all things being equal, the simplest solution is usually the correct one. There is no conspiracy, there is no dark secret in the US Government, it was a bunch of fired up Arabs making a massive religious/politcal statement - and it worked. With 9/11 I'll let Penn and Teller hav the last word... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) Well said rummy. I'm an atheist these days, but I grew up in a church going Methodist family and held on to my faith until my mid twenties. So I have the utmost respect for The Chaplain and his beliefs, and those of Christians and Muslims alike. As for the Daily Mail, this article is the perfect example of why I hold it in such complete contempt. It appeals to the lowest common denominator both in terms of morals and intellect. Edited February 18, 2009 by garcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Hey, thanks for the link to this. I needed a good laugh! It's great. I've only had time to listen to the first 15 minutes or so, but just to keep you going: "This is Horus. He is the Sun God of Egypt of around 3000 BC" - they say. No. Ra was the sun god of Egypt around 3000 BC, not Horus. I think Horus was the god of the sky. And the way they change "Sun God" to "Sun of God" to make it sound like something to do with Jesus as "Son of God" is very funny. The implication is clear. All ancient Egyptians clearly spoke English. "Horus was born on December 25th of the virgin Isis-Meri. His birth was accompanied by a star in the east, which in turn, three kings followed to locate and adorn the new-born saviour." - they say. No. He was said to be born in August not December - using the modern calendar. His mother was not a virgin, he was conceived when Isis (his mum) and Osiris "consorted together" according to Plutarch. And the star in the east and the three kings are found in no ancient Egyptian manuscripts that I am aware of. They cite no sources in the film, so we are left deciding whether to believe them or not. Dare I suggest you might be right about being gullible? No offence intended. By the way the Bible never calls the magi kings, nor does it tell us how many there were. I think the writer of the film has made up a "fact" which he thinks is in the Bible in order to debunk it. He should have read his Bible more carefully. Maybe he couldn't reach it off the top shelf. I was wondering if you would pop up. I appreciate your input especially, you should continue to watch (if I remember correctly the first ten minutes or so was a rubbish introduction anyway ) and debunk the rest of it for us, as opposed to only a tiny part of the 'evidence'. It would be good if you could rather than just focusing on the small 'mistake' of Horus being the sun god. He was the sky god yes, but this meant he 'contained' the sun god (Ra lived within him) and he still fought Set, which I remember being the point? I haven't watched it in a while..... I remember it likening the life pattern of Jesus to a staggering number of similar characters, not just Horus which you say is innacurate. In fact it likens him to so many others that I would say it becomes a dubiously laboured point. However it quotes a historian (name begins with a P I think) from circa 100-150AD as recognising the massive similarities between Jesus and another, but he writes it off as work of the devil. Incidently there are no references to Jesus from any of the many historians of the day.....somewhat surprising. I too have an issue with sun/son pun, and agree they should have left it out as it is clearly just that, a pun, and so devalues the credibility of an otherwise excellent argument. No comment on the star/three kings part - I'll watch it again soon and see if this changes, but doesn't the film show the hyrogliphics?? Did you watch far enough? Again I cant quite remember..... So I assume you believe everything in the bible? What do you make of the Pagan connections and the theory of the 'ages'? No offence taken on the gullible jibe. As long as religion is based on nothing but faith, and continues to ignore scientific facts, we will never know who is the gullible one, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) Incidently there are no references to Jesus from any of the many historians of the day.....somewhat surprising. Not true. You just have to know what to look for (not always easy with translations, local names etc). It is widely documented historical fact that some bloke probably called Jesus lived at about the right time and was known to have preached to groups of people. Edited February 18, 2009 by garcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Not true. You just have to know what to look for (not always easy with translations, local names etc). It is widely documented historical fact that some bloke probably called Jesus lived at about the right time and was known to have preached to groups of people. Is it? I can't even find any claims that evidence from his time exists, nevermind actual evidence. Can you? What few references there are come from people who weren't even alive when he was, and some are proven fakes! I can only find references to 'the christ' (meaning 'the anointed'), which isn't quite the same. Apparently lot's of people were professing to be Jesus type characters in those days. I found this discussion which, although hardly the finest source , has many posters backing up my claim that there is no evidence of his existance and providing their own sources. Jesus? I have uncovered a reason/excuse for the staggering lack of historical evidence of a man who could perform impossible feats......Roman invasion and destruction of Israel in 70AD. Anyway........this is a Latics board. Let's stick to the important stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 As for the Daily Mail, this article is the perfect example of why I hold it in such complete contempt. It appeals to the lowest common denominator both in terms of morals and intellect. What!!! Lower than Sun, Sport, Star and Mirror readers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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