Diego_Sideburns Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 My point was simply if Diego had his way the final would be in Paris, Wembley, Cardiff, Berlin and Barca ad nauseum... Or until Italian football gets its problems sorted just like we had to do in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 So on the one hand we have a steward at Colchester exceeding his authority and being dismissed for assaulting one of our fans. On the other hand we have the notorious Italian riot police who only 'control' visiting fans because they do not want to incur the wrath of the local Ultras. I have made up my mind. Uefa has also made up its mind, but it chooses to turn a blind eye because it's Italy's turn to host the Final. Who's to say that those coppers caught beating seven shades of you know what out of Man Ure fans weren't fired? Or how about the fact that those Man Ure fans were protesting their innocence but were they all sweetness and light I don't think so. If I was a copper or a steward and I had to 'control' one set of fans I would defiantely choose the opposition as I'm not likely to be beaten up/stabbed/worse by the opposition the next week when I'm out in the supermarket. Plus who's to say that stewards won't exceed their authority in Rome. The German's got it right with the policing of the World cup (coppers in standard police uniforms calming things down before the riot police were needed). They didn't use stewards (like we know them) all that much and because they kept it fairly quiet they didn't need riot police all that much- but when they did the riot police weren't being filmed from all angles beating the out of people who deserve it but it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I can think of at least 5 venues in the UK alone that would be preferable to both teams (and most teams in the competition). Then a few each in the Netherlands, France, Germany, even Portugal and Spain. Italy is notorius for a reason, they need to prove through events like this that they can manage it I guess. Yeah but then we would have all sorts of people complaining why is it in this stadium or that stadium where its bigger and we can have more than 10,000 seats. The final needs to be in a neutral venue if Man U are so unhappy about the final being in Rome then maybe the final should be in Barca (I'm sure if I was a Man u fan I would be more happy for it to be in Rome than Barca). People won't be pleased with whereever the final is being held and UEFA have picked a neutral venue in a neutral country which hasn't hosted one in a while. That will do for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Who's to say that those coppers caught beating seven shades of you know what out of Man Ure fans weren't fired? Those Carlsberg Police weren't riot police, they were tax police on overtime. All backs up the idea of don't mess with accountants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeykieran Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Yeah but then we would have all sorts of people complaining why is it in this stadium or that stadium where its bigger and we can have more than 10,000 seats. The final needs to be in a neutral venue if Man U are so unhappy about the final being in Rome then maybe the final should be in Barca (I'm sure if I was a Man u fan I would be more happy for it to be in Rome than Barca). People won't be pleased with whereever the final is being held and UEFA have picked a neutral venue in a neutral country which hasn't hosted one in a while. That will do for me. I know all my friends who are man u fans who are going to rome would much much much rather be going to the Nou Camp and avaoiding Italy entirely (especially after their result there last year). You're right though people will never be pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Sorry maybe I should have been clearer I was being sarcastic when I said Barca will be happy with that. Your point about the Stade De France is just an example you need a stadium of at least 70,000 to host a the Champions League cup final just because of all the tickets that don't go to fans of the two teams. My point was simply if Diego had his way the final would be in Paris, Wembley, Cardiff, Berlin and Barca ad nauseum that leaves for this final Paris or Berlin. I will admit Berlin is a better choice than Rome (but in many ways since the final needs to be decided some time ago it might not have been) but I couldn't see a final in Berlin being trouble free and the same for Paris (with the added on that Paris has hosted the final recently). People have said Rome shouldn't host the final (personally I'm more inclined to say that the Rome Ultras won't bother fighting someone that isn't playing Rome/Lazio unless they are being too aggressive) but where's the alternative? I'd take your word for it that Barca fans won't travel without a ticket (certainly not in the numbers Man U fans are supposed to be going). There won't be too many Roma/Lazio fans inside the stadium so where's the trouble going to be- with those fans who have travelled without tickets. Its quite simple if people without tickets didn't travel there would be a much greater reduced chance of trouble. This might also mean that those tickets which Uefa don't sell to the two teams which convieniently end up on the black market might just lie empty and UEFA see the folly of having so many seats for major finals given to their mates. don't you think some manu are going there to settle a few scores? don't you think the roma ultras are eagerly awaiting their arrival for a post season ruck? the trouble won't be anywhere near the ground..it'll be in the streets,on the subway/trams etc. as for the ticket issue...a large percetage of these black market tickets(or for this year, a chip and pin card) turn up from the hospitality sector.they have your name printed on,and you are supposed to have your passport/official id on you when entering the groung to prove you are the said person on the ticket.all bollocks yes,but the problem is created by uefa themselves. 70,000 capacity ground 38,000 to to the teams apporox 10,000 from the uefa public applications which leaves approx 22,000 tickets going to sponsors ,local sales etc. remember also,of the clubs allocation,this season,barca got approx 19,000 tickets(there were over 67,000 applications)only 15,000 were available for its members..the rest have gone to staff,sponsors etc. the same situation will apply at manu. manu fans who really want a ticket,will get one if they are prepared to pay the top wedge. barca fans just ain't stupid enough to pay 1000 euros for a game. cheeaper on tv in their local...with beer . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Who's to say that those coppers caught beating seven shades of you know what out of Man Ure fans weren't fired? Or how about the fact that those Man Ure fans were protesting their innocence but were they all sweetness and light I don't think so. If I was a copper or a steward and I had to 'control' one set of fans I would defiantely choose the opposition as I'm not likely to be beaten up/stabbed/worse by the opposition the next week when I'm out in the supermarket. Plus who's to say that stewards won't exceed their authority in Rome. The German's got it right with the policing of the World cup (coppers in standard police uniforms calming things down before the riot police were needed). They didn't use stewards (like we know them) all that much and because they kept it fairly quiet they didn't need riot police all that much- but when they did the riot police weren't being filmed from all angles beating the out of people who deserve it but it happened. I hadn't realised tthat: the Rome cops might have been fired for beating the :censored: out of ManUre fans; the ManUre fans were guilty and deserved to have the :censored: beat out of 'em; if trained stewards were used in Italy, they would exceed their authority; Italian police are so afraid of being beat up/stabbed/worse by the home fans that they choose to assault innocent visitors. You've convinced me - we must hold every Final, including the F.A. Cup, in Germany! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I hadn't realised tthat: the Rome cops might have been fired for beating the :censored: out of ManUre fans; the ManUre fans were guilty and deserved to have the :censored: beat out of 'em; if trained stewards were used in Italy, they would exceed their authority; Italian police are so afraid of being beat up/stabbed/worse by the home fans that they choose to assault innocent visitors. You've convinced me - we must hold every Final, including the F.A. Cup, in Germany! Sarcasm doesn't suit you Diego- all I was saying is that you don't know the full facts of the case. You appear to have gone off the way it was reported in the British Press (who are going to be biased against the Italians). The British press got the majority of their info from man utd fans who aren't likely to say 'Yeah I was acting up and got what I deserved.' I'm not aware if any Rome cops got into trouble for what they did but neither are you that they didn't. (That sort of thing rarely gets reported). I'm not saying that trained stewards will exceed their authority in Rome but what I am saying is that a trained steward exceeded his authority in an incident that you saw in Essex and were up on your high horse about for ages. What happened in Essex could happen in Rome (after all you wouldn't exactly say it was likely to happen in Essex are you). Stewards are not the definitive answer- (especially where they exceed their authority)- but you seem to think so, despite evidence otherwise. I will admit backed by some opinion from UEFA. If stewards are that important why is it that every time I see footage of a UEFA game (be it Champions league, UEFA cup, European championships whatever) I see coppers as much as I see stewards. Why is it the coppers always appear at the first sign of trouble (as opposed to more stewards) even at a lowly game like one of Oldhams? Stewards are great if there isn't any trouble but if there is you need coppers (trust me the first thing a steward is trained to do if they feel unable to calm things down is get the coppers)- so with all this supposed trouble from the Ultras in rome why should stewards be used. If chaos ensues in Rome and there is footage (not just the word of Man U fans) of coppers letting the locals have their way then I will hold my hands up and say hosting the final in Rome wasn't appropriate. But I honestly don't think that is likely to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Sarcasm doesn't suit you Diego- all I was saying is that you don't know the full facts of the case. You appear to have gone off the way it was reported in the British Press (who are going to be biased against the Italians). The British press got the majority of their info from man utd fans who aren't likely to say 'Yeah I was acting up and got what I deserved.' I'm not aware if any Rome cops got into trouble for what they did but neither are you that they didn't. (That sort of thing rarely gets reported). I'm not saying that trained stewards will exceed their authority in Rome but what I am saying is that a trained steward exceeded his authority in an incident that you saw in Essex and were up on your high horse about for ages. What happened in Essex could happen in Rome (after all you wouldn't exactly say it was likely to happen in Essex are you). Stewards are not the definitive answer- (especially where they exceed their authority)- but you seem to think so, despite evidence otherwise. I will admit backed by some opinion from UEFA. If stewards are that important why is it that every time I see footage of a UEFA game (be it Champions league, UEFA cup, European championships whatever) I see coppers as much as I see stewards. Why is it the coppers always appear at the first sign of trouble (as opposed to more stewards) even at a lowly game like one of Oldhams? Stewards are great if there isn't any trouble but if there is you need coppers (trust me the first thing a steward is trained to do if they feel unable to calm things down is get the coppers)- so with all this supposed trouble from the Ultras in rome why should stewards be used. If chaos ensues in Rome and there is footage (not just the word of Man U fans) of coppers letting the locals have their way then I will hold my hands up and say hosting the final in Rome wasn't appropriate. But I honestly don't think that is likely to happen. Stewarding in this country has been proved to be the way forward inside stadia. The fact that I got "on my high horse" about the one bad apple at Colchester proves the point that he was the exception to the rule. Any innocent fan attending a prestige Final should be able to enjoy their time in the host city and inside the stadium, without fear of stabbing or being beaten up by the poilce. Experience by fans of Liverpool, 'Boro, Arsenal and ManUre has shown that this was not possible when they went to Rome. No doubt you say they were probably all guilty anyway. We can argue all day but the fact remains that Rome is sufficiently unsafe for visiting fans that the FCO has had to issue safety advice and Uefa is holding its breath that past incidents are not repeated, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 not in the least surprised about this,and i fear it won't be the last report.. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090527/tuk-m...me-6323e80.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 not in the least surprised about this,and i fear it won't be the last report.. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090527/tuk-m...me-6323e80.html Was always going to happen wasn't it? Thankfully seems to have been reasonably minor so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeykieran Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 not in the least surprised about this,and i fear it won't be the last report.. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090527/tuk-m...me-6323e80.html Lets hope the headlines are football related tomorrow ey?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 not in the least surprised about this,and i fear it won't be the last report.. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090527/tuk-m...me-6323e80.html Johnny, you may like to tune in to Hawksbee & Jacobs on TalkSport as they're doing a feature on the ritish brnch of the Barca supporters' club this afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Johnny, you may like to tune in to Hawksbee & Jacobs on TalkSport as they're doing a feature on the ritish brnch of the Barca supporters' club this afternoon. already know mate! its tony,our treasurer,who is in desperate need of cheering up(he's toon army !!) TBH they haven't been too kind to us in the past(he's been on a few times),basically propping the penya (supporters club) up for its cheap gags and digs...i know he's on edge,so hopefully he'll twist it back at em! side note: seen one of the oldham councils dustbin wagons in royton today with a barca flag fluttering on the front! the lads have class! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 any idea what time he could be on...? listening to this bias :censored:e is making my ears bleed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 its the london penya who is on... seems tony wasn't interested! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 already know mate! its tony,our treasurer,who is in desperate need of cheering up(he's toon army !!) TBH they haven't been too kind to us in the past(he's been on a few times),basically propping the penya (supporters club) up for its cheap gags and digs...i know he's on edge,so hopefully he'll twist it back at em! side note: seen one of the oldham councils dustbin wagons in royton today with a barca flag fluttering on the front! the lads have class! Don't know what time it's on. I've just retrieved my Barca shirt from my ABU shirt collection in the loft to wear tonight. I know it's probably going to end in tears - in fact I still haven't recovered from Bayern throwing it away after George Best had given up on ManUre and left the stadium - but one of these days..... I see the pro-Spanish Swiss ref is in charge tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 been on terry. yep the catalan speaking swiss ref is very happy because his luxury apartment in barcelona has suddenly now been fully paid for .. he has also been supplied a private phone number to the best escort agency in the whole of europe,with free "services" for the next 10 years,to satisfy his every....whim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 been on terry. yep the catalan speaking swiss ref is very happy because his luxury apartment in barcelona has suddenly now been fully paid for .. he has also been supplied a private phone number to the best escort agency in the whole of europe,with free "services" for the next 10 years,to satisfy his every....whim. But can all that compete with what Taggart can offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martjs Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Don't know what time it's on. I've just retrieved my Barca shirt from my ABU shirt collection in the loft to wear tonight. I know it's probably going to end in tears - in fact I still haven't recovered from Bayern throwing it away after George Best had given up on ManUre and left the stadium - but one of these days..... I could have written that Terry. Great minds and all that, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 pasión...estilo...unidad...fuerza...deseo...puro fútbol...barca! VISCA BARCA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 i see Scholes' tackling's as woeful as ever, i'm glad we signed Worthington instead of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takemeanywhere Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Beautiful. Just beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Champions of eeeeeeeengland champions of eeeeeeeu........ Oh where did that go wrong United were completely outclassed. Completely and utterly outclassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I could have written that Terry. Great minds and all that, eh? Everything comes to he who waits long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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