leeslover Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 More likely he still had the kind of ambitions for the club that most on here suddenly seem to regard as unrealistic. Nope. It would be like trying to compete in a big tackle fight by having one gonad swollen to twicew the normal size and having the other bit shrunk. It would just look silly. Much better just to have a well balanced threepiece with everything big enough to do what is required of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 As I pointed out yesterday, we have exceeded 13k on two occasions, and had gates between 12-13k on another seven occasion, mainly cup ties or playoffs, in a period of fifteen years. So on what basis do you argue we need 16k seats? And on the three seasons at championship level from 1994-1997 our average crowd was less than 9k, so on what basis do you suggest we need 16k? And can you point out to me when you have said to someone "fair enough i dont agree with you but thats your opinion" without talking down to them??? And whatever way you want to brush it up, several of your arguments have been proved completely wrong via use of cold, hard facts, as I have said in other threads. And what do you define as overwhelming baseless optimism? by the sounds of it its simply anyone who doesnt agree with you. So pull the other one sonny jim. How many times does it have to be pointed out that the only clubs that build stadiums with capacities that reflect their average attendances at the time are concentrated at the lower end of the Football League? Most clubs don't regularly fill their grounds to capacity and never have. Very few 'cold hard facts' have been used in this debate, in actual fact. Both sides have mostly based their arguments on speculation drawn from the limited information given to us so far. Why do you expect me to remain sarcasm free when I'm chased around the board by an assortment of pedants and morons, many of whom are not shy of using the kind of insultsI never use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 How many times does it have to be pointed out that the only clubs that build stadiums with capacities that reflect their average attendances at the time are concentrated at the lower end of the Football League? Most clubs don't regularly fill their grounds to capacity and never have. Very few 'cold hard facts' have been used in this debate, in actual fact. Both sides have mostly based their arguments on speculation drawn from the limited information given to us so far. Why do you expect me to remain sarcasm free when I'm chased around the board by an assortment of pedants and morons, many of whom are not shy of using the kind of insultsI never use? And what about the slope? Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Oh what great fun! I logged on and saw that the thread had developed from 9 pages yesterday to 16 today. I thought what could possibly have happened there? Has there been some big announcement that I had missed? Has someone dug up some previously lost information at the local interest centre? or had the Corp woken up and decided to log onto owtb? I guessed it would be the latter I thought another 7 pages, 140 posts and probably 1/2 by the Corp. Not wanting to waste my precious time (there is a game tomorrow you know) I decided not to read the Corp's posts on the basis I knew what his point (yes that 1) would be. Instead, I read all the posts in between. It's quite funny when you do that. So to sum up the answers to the Corps question (pre moving the goalposts) of "can anybody think of a club that has built onto their existing stadium (already completed stadium, I mean)? Off the top of my head, I can only think of ManUre." the answers are of course: - Sunderland Middlesboro Wycombe Blackpool (currently expanding) Ipswich Town Norwich City Newcastle United Man Yoo (your own answer pre movement of goalposts) Nottingham Forest Sheffield Wednesday Charlton Athletic Huddersfield Town (added 4th stand) Walsall Bouremouth Bradford City So in direct answer to your question - the 1 you actually asked and not your goalpost moving amendment/s when your various counter arguments were blown ourt of the water - thats 15 clubs or 1 in 6 of the 92 pro clubs in this country and that doesn't include the clubs who are in the process of doing the same. 1 further point Corp. Are you saying that the FA lacked ambition in only building the new Wembly at 90,000 capacity? Surely it would have shown true ambition if the national stadium had been built with a 120,000 capacity? Are you also saying the Man Yoo lacked ambition when they rebuilt OT in the early 90's with only a 40,000 capacity, because of the funds available at that time and only expanded it in a further 4 expansions to 76,000? Are you then saying as well that the OT board lacked ambition not completing the full expansion of the ground to 90,000 when they carried out their last expansion 2 or 3 years ago? I know I'll get an answer, becasue you always have to have the last word on any discussion (you just can't resist can you) However, I just don't expect an answer that will be to the questions I pose, because when it doesn't suit your argument, you either answer with a different point (well actually you just re-state your usual 1 point) or you move the goalposts as this thread has already proved. The words in quotes above are taken from your own post Corp. They are crystal clear and have been answered by several other posters and you don't like it so you try and change the question by saying that you meant new stadiums. When that gets answered i.e. Wycombe you say that doesn't count. So what does count? I know you want a 16,000 stadium as in your opinion that shows ambition. That is not an unreasonable request, but it is a figure that you appear to have plucked out of the air, and with no back up for your argument and particularly how the cost of the provision of an extra 4,000 seats will be funded. I want a 25,000 stadium but I know that is unrealistic and we can't afford it at this time. I do know though that when the plans are published together with the cost for construting it, be it a 12, 14 or (you hope) 16K stadium, it will be 1 we can afford and one that is capable of expansion in the future to take us either at 1 go or in stages (likeOT has been done over a period of time) to upto 20K. Right back to I'll log back on tomorrow to see if this thread has got to 25 pages and see how many other owtb members you have I'm not into insults, but I do know that you can't help replying to those who insert the various smilies so :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: Cheers, Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Oh, that's a pity. I was looking forward to the added quality you'd bring to the table. Possibly later when I have finished work.....if i can keep up with the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Oh what great fun! I logged on and saw that the thread had developed from 9 pages yesterday to 16 today. I thought what could possibly have happened there? Has there been some big announcement that I had missed? Has someone dug up some previously lost information at the local interest centre? or had the Corp woken up and decided to log onto owtb? I guessed it would be the latter I thought another 7 pages, 140 posts and probably 1/2 by the Corp. Not wanting to waste my precious time (there is a game tomorrow you know) I decided not to read the Corp's posts on the basis I knew what his point (yes that 1) would be. Instead, I read all the posts in between. It's quite funny when you do that. So to sum up the answers to the Corps question (pre moving the goalposts) of "can anybody think of a club that has built onto their existing stadium (already completed stadium, I mean)? Off the top of my head, I can only think of ManUre." the answers are of course: - Sunderland Middlesboro Wycombe Blackpool (currently expanding) Ipswich Town Norwich City Newcastle United Man Yoo (your own answer pre movement of goalposts) Nottingham Forest Sheffield Wednesday Charlton Athletic Huddersfield Town (added 4th stand) Walsall Bouremouth Bradford City So in direct answer to your question - the 1 you actually asked and not your goalpost moving amendment/s when your various counter arguments were blown ourt of the water - thats 15 clubs or 1 in 6 of the 92 pro clubs in this country and that doesn't include the clubs who are in the process of doing the same. 1 further point Corp. Are you saying that the FA lacked ambition in only building the new Wembly at 90,000 capacity? Surely it would have shown true ambition if the national stadium had been built with a 120,000 capacity? Are you also saying the Man Yoo lacked ambition when they rebuilt OT in the early 90's with only a 40,000 capacity, because of the funds available at that time and only expanded it in a further 4 expansions to 76,000? Are you then saying as well that the OT board lacked ambition not completing the full expansion of the ground to 90,000 when they carried out their last expansion 2 or 3 years ago? I know I'll get an answer, becasue you always have to have the last word on any discussion (you just can't resist can you) However, I just don't expect an answer that will be to the questions I pose, because when it doesn't suit your argument, you either answer with a different point (well actually you just re-state your usual 1 point) or you move the goalposts as this thread has already proved. The words in quotes above are taken from your own post Corp. They are crystal clear and have been answered by several other posters and you don't like it so you try and change the question by saying that you meant new stadiums. When that gets answered i.e. Wycombe you say that doesn't count. So what does count? I know you want a 16,000 stadium as in your opinion that shows ambition. That is not an unreasonable request, but it is a figure that you appear to have plucked out of the air, and with no back up for your argument and particularly how the cost of the provision of an extra 4,000 seats will be funded. I want a 25,000 stadium but I know that is unrealistic and we can't afford it at this time. I do know though that when the plans are published together with the cost for construting it, be it a 12, 14 or (you hope) 16K stadium, it will be 1 we can afford and one that is capable of expansion in the future to take us either at 1 go or in stages (likeOT has been done over a period of time) to upto 20K. Right back to I'll log back on tomorrow to see if this thread has got to 25 pages and see how many other owtb members you have I'm not into insults, but I do know that you can't help replying to those who insert the various smilies so :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: Cheers, Harry Thankyou harry I rest my case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Oh what great fun! So to sum up the answers to the Corps question (pre moving the goalposts) of "can anybody think of a club that has built onto their existing stadium (already completed stadium, I mean)? Off the top of my head, I can only think of ManUre." the answers are of course: - Sunderland Middlesboro Wycombe Blackpool (currently expanding) Ipswich Town Norwich City Newcastle United Man Yoo (your own answer pre movement of goalposts) Nottingham Forest Sheffield Wednesday Charlton Athletic Huddersfield Town (added 4th stand) Walsall Bouremouth Bradford City Does Leyton Orient count as it was a three sided ground for a few years now back to a four sided ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertie_Dugger Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Does that indicate the mods can close this thread now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshaw Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Is it not past your bed time? hey up corp, you missed one. You,ve got to keep up with the thread. Or maybe the last couple of posts have said it all. Goodnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Oh what great fun! I logged on and saw that the thread had developed from 9 pages yesterday to 16 today. I thought what could possibly have happened there? Has there been some big announcement that I had missed? Has someone dug up some previously lost information at the local interest centre? or had the Corp woken up and decided to log onto owtb? I guessed it would be the latter I thought another 7 pages, 140 posts and probably 1/2 by the Corp. Not wanting to waste my precious time (there is a game tomorrow you know) I decided not to read the Corp's posts on the basis I knew what his point (yes that 1) would be. Instead, I read all the posts in between. It's quite funny when you do that. So to sum up the answers to the Corps question (pre moving the goalposts) of "can anybody think of a club that has built onto their existing stadium (already completed stadium, I mean)? Off the top of my head, I can only think of ManUre." the answers are of course: - Sunderland Middlesboro Wycombe Blackpool (currently expanding) Ipswich Town Norwich City Newcastle United Man Yoo (your own answer pre movement of goalposts) Nottingham Forest Sheffield Wednesday Charlton Athletic Huddersfield Town (added 4th stand) Walsall Bouremouth Bradford City So in direct answer to your question - the 1 you actually asked and not your goalpost moving amendment/s when your various counter arguments were blown ourt of the water - thats 15 clubs or 1 in 6 of the 92 pro clubs in this country and that doesn't include the clubs who are in the process of doing the same. 1 further point Corp. Are you saying that the FA lacked ambition in only building the new Wembly at 90,000 capacity? Surely it would have shown true ambition if the national stadium had been built with a 120,000 capacity? Are you also saying the Man Yoo lacked ambition when they rebuilt OT in the early 90's with only a 40,000 capacity, because of the funds available at that time and only expanded it in a further 4 expansions to 76,000? Are you then saying as well that the OT board lacked ambition not completing the full expansion of the ground to 90,000 when they carried out their last expansion 2 or 3 years ago? I know I'll get an answer, becasue you always have to have the last word on any discussion (you just can't resist can you) However, I just don't expect an answer that will be to the questions I pose, because when it doesn't suit your argument, you either answer with a different point (well actually you just re-state your usual 1 point) or you move the goalposts as this thread has already proved. The words in quotes above are taken from your own post Corp. They are crystal clear and have been answered by several other posters and you don't like it so you try and change the question by saying that you meant new stadiums. When that gets answered i.e. Wycombe you say that doesn't count. So what does count? I know you want a 16,000 stadium as in your opinion that shows ambition. That is not an unreasonable request, but it is a figure that you appear to have plucked out of the air, and with no back up for your argument and particularly how the cost of the provision of an extra 4,000 seats will be funded. I want a 25,000 stadium but I know that is unrealistic and we can't afford it at this time. I do know though that when the plans are published together with the cost for construting it, be it a 12, 14 or (you hope) 16K stadium, it will be 1 we can afford and one that is capable of expansion in the future to take us either at 1 go or in stages (likeOT has been done over a period of time) to upto 20K. Right back to I'll log back on tomorrow to see if this thread has got to 25 pages and see how many other owtb members you have I'm not into insults, but I do know that you can't help replying to those who insert the various smilies so :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: :dedhrse: Cheers, Harry The Wise One has spoken again. This means that the debate is at an end. Funny how he always turns up wherever I am even though he claims to have me on ignore. I've already answered all the points about other clubs' grounds and pointed out the reason for asking for examples (as I said, it wasn't a trick question.) Few of them have any relevance to Latics's situation, and the bit about Wembley and OT is a red herring. Anything to blur the issue and justify why Latics always have to be third rate. Similarly, the stuff about financing is also spurious, used by those who like to hint that they're in the know about the club's internal situation. In reality I suspect they're told sweet FA. All we need to know is that all of a sudden an extra 4000 seats is beyond the wildest dreams of a club like Latics according to the Happy Clappers and Sycophants Glee Club. Can't resist replying to smilies? No-just puzzled as to why you wish to make yourself look about thirteen. What do you do in facre-to-face conversation? Do you turn cartwheels or play with yourself or something? Why does it bother you how long a thread goes on, by the way? You are into insults, though, aren't you. It's just that, like MarkOasis, you do it in a sneaky, roundabout way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 hey up corp, you missed one. You,ve got to keep up with the thread. Or maybe the last couple of posts have said it all. Goodnight. Has this one given his carer the slip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Does that indicate the mods can close this thread now? Why do you want to close threads the content of which you disapprove of? Do you want to close the 99% of threads on here in which I don't feature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertie_Dugger Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Why don't you take the hint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshaw Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Has this one given his carer the slip? Dissapointed, not up to your usual standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) So nobody else tries to have the last word? What's somebody supposed to do if they are answered with either new or repeated points? Is it only the self-styled optimists (by whom I'm heavily outnumbered) who can legitimately have the last word? I have never said that it doesn't matter what's affordable. Nor did I say anything about making us the envy of Blackburn or Bolton. I said, one time only, that 16000 just about keeps them in sight while 12000 places us alongside the likes of Bury, Rochdale and Macclesfield. Stop making things up. Of course Blackpool's doesn't count as an expanded ground. They're merely finishing off work that was halted. They didn't plan a two or three sided ground and then see how it goes. They ran out of money to complete the job in one go. And stop trying to use a tragedy to bring to an end an entirely unrelated topic. Firstly I am not making things up. You said it is about keeping up with the Jones's (see what I did there) with a bold statement no capacity. You have already stated you do not want us to drop to Bury Rochdale and Macclesfield level. We can't hope to keep up with Man City and Man Utd. That pretty much leaves Blackburn and Bolton, and possibly Stockport. Whom you also subsequently mentioned. I do not pick and choose your posts Corp, I look at them in entirety and in context of each other. Blackpool IS important, What if we ran out of money? And the Liddell tragedy was to subtly try and persuade you to restrain things a little bit, as the issue is not the greatest in the world in comparison. I would not expect you to stop discussion because of that, just temper it from getting personal as your frustration of dealing with us Pedants (or people with facts to counter your generalisations as I prefer to be called) spills over into an increasingly bitter tirade. Indeed, the issue is vital to Oldham's future so needs discussing in full. Edited July 28, 2009 by singe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticsmad Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I don't agree with half the points Corps makes, or in the manner in which he presents them. However, I do disagree with the bully boy tactics and put-downs. Don't let them pull you down mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I don't agree with half the points Corps makes, or in the manner in which he presents them. However, I do disagree with the bully boy tactics and put-downs. Don't let them pull you down mate! its just another thread hijacked by corp still beating his 1 point drum in everybodys ear until we are all tone deaf by it. absolutely no need to keep giving him amunition to carry on his 1 man crusade of differing his opinion/s as and when he gets hauled over the coals and shot down in flames,like has just happened by one or two more articulated people on the board. well done corp.the amount of crap n tripe you constantly spout on here is having a great effect,and earning the club lots of money in the process.....whatever will you do when they have enough and build everything you want...what will you moan about then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 well done corp.the amount of crap n tripe you constantly spout on here is having a great effect,and earning the club lots of money in the process.....whatever will you do when they have enough and build everything you want...what will you moan about then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 its just another thread hijacked by corp still beating his 1 point drum in everybodys ear until we are all tone deaf by it. absolutely no need to keep giving him amunition to carry on his 1 man crusade of differing his opinion/s as and when he gets hauled over the coals and shot down in flames,like has just happened by one or two more articulated people on the board. well done corp.the amount of crap n tripe you constantly spout on here is having a great effect,and earning the club lots of money in the process.....whatever will you do when they have enough and build everything you want...what will you moan about then.... A correlation that has struck me more than once As mentioned the contrary line taken so often, that he has almost argued against his original point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 He'll have earn't the club that money for the extra 4k seats he wants before you know it. Lets hope Corp as 4,000 friends to fill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticsmad Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 its just another thread hijacked by corp still beating his 1 point drum in everybodys ear until we are all tone deaf by it. absolutely no need to keep giving him amunition to carry on his 1 man crusade of differing his opinion/s as and when he gets hauled over the coals and shot down in flames,like has just happened by one or two more articulated people on the board. well done corp.the amount of crap n tripe you constantly spout on here is having a great effect,and earning the club lots of money in the process.....whatever will you do when they have enough and build everything you want...what will you moan about then.... Like it or lump it, it is his opinion! IMO I am very happy to be moving but it does feel abit similar to 'downsizing'. You know like a person does when close to retirment and has settled for what they have. Just an observation really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticsmad Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 He'll have earn't the club that money for the extra 4k seats he wants before you know it. Lets hope Corp as 4,000 friends to fill them. hmm I thought mods were suppose to stay neutral instead of joining the bandwagon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) Like it or lump it, it is his opinion! IMO I am very happy to be moving but it does feel abit similar to 'downsizing'. You know like a person does when close to retirment and has settled for what they have. Just an observation really! Of course it is and he is perfectly entitled to it But corp seems to define a happy clapper as anyone who doesnt agree with every word he says, and antagonises them by talking down to them. He bases his argument on generalisation and tries to move the goalposts when elements of his opinion have been proven wrong, this thread a blatant example. Others such as myself base counter arguments on facts, cold and hard, and I will gladly hold my hands up when I'm wrong, and I certainly dont consider everyone who has different, more negative views a doom and gloomer. Thats the difference here Edited July 28, 2009 by Lookers_Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertie_Dugger Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Don't mods have opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 hmm I thought mods were suppose to stay neutral instead of joining the bandwagon! what made you think that ? Am I not a member of this forum ?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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