Corporal_Jones Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 That's not very ambitious of you Corp. Quite negative if you don't mind me observing. A bit hypocritical of you. cosidering you constantly accuse the TTA of the same. Perhaps you are projecting your feelings onto other's rather than listening to what is actually being said? Wigan don't even get 18000 now (do they even average 15000?), but their stadium holds considerably more than that. I'd say that is a good thing to build a plan on, and they don't have any local competition. I do fully understand your frustrations about the seeming settling for mediocrity, even if I don't agree that the TTA actions show this. But what I still don't get, with all the info you now have (including an epxenditure of almost £27m) you still argue for building a stadium that stretches the current resources. I even think that your postings have helped ensure that the architects plans include expansion is at the forefront of people minds, though I credit the TTA will have already had that in mind. That is surely some success. I think it is time for you to move onto the next issue. Leonard Nimoy: Well, my work is done here. Barney: What do you mean your work is done? You didn't do anything! Leonard Nimoy: [bemusedly raising an eyebrow] Didn't I? [he teleports into nothingness, as on Star Trek] I haven't accused TTA of anything. Wigan have as much local competition as we do, not least from having what was, until recently, the most successful rugby league club in the country by miles. It was a rugby town. Neither my postings nor those of anybody else have 'ensured' anything. Don't be so naive. And don't be so naive as to think that an extension of capacity will ever be needed. Nor do I accept that keeping to the kind of capacity that at least shows some semblence of ambition would stretch resources that drastically. Once a little stadium is built, that's it folks. Little stadium, little club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) Does anyone feel that those who dont want to move to Failsworth will change their minds if the ground actually looks good? Of course it will probably look crap but we can live in hope! To those who say being a well run club doesnt go hand in hand with the club dying. I think SC is refering to the fact that the general apathy of our support means that if they did pull the plug the club would not be able to survive at this level because we just dont get the numbers through the turnstiles. Rather than leave the club with the budget they are running at the moment where they cover the costs which would surely put the club into administration they have said they will not leave until we can become self sufficient, which will see budgets slashed until it is covered by our crowds which will in all honesty probably see us languish in mid table in the division below. In turn this would probably lead to lower crowds and the cycle continuing which would see the club die in terms of being able to compete at a decent professional level. Edited August 11, 2009 by wozz_oafc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I have to say with the rhetoric spouted of pending doom without 'x' development going through and it's last chance saloon senerio I do lose interest. It would seem when we reach this last saloon someone from the club finds a door at the far end with another smaller saloon in which to stand. It's always smaller! why cant it ever be like the wardrobe with Narnia on the other side? (well we've had star wars today) Latics are the incredible shrinking club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I think that was £15k a week. i stand corrected. so thats a saving of £20grand a month from previous. so why the books ,as corney proposes,a sticky point to future buyers? what has this new stadium got that will claw back this £40grand a month loss? i don't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 they are businessmen,and they want their return in their investment asap-sod the consistences,sod the general feeling,sod the fans,its not what they want anymore. I think you may be right, but can you blame them? After the general apathy of the Oldham public, taking 5 years to finally win over the council and just not having a feeling of gratitude by anyone except a hardcore band of fans. I think their message regarding this is clear, but at least they're aiming to get Latics to a self-sufficiant state of affairs before they do depart for pastures new. I know of a lot of other asset-stripping types who'd have nowhere near the amount of patience that TTA are showing. I think hypothetically should we get the new stadium, albeit a small capacity at first, we'll be in a strong position for investment from somewhere else. A founder Premier League club, debt free in a brand new expendable stadium is a very attractive offer, but it's key we get past the next few hurdles and move to Failsworth. As it stands, we are dying as a club and will do unless this move happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 And Failsworth is four hundred miles from BP if you go via London! Taking the M61 is an awfully long way around. its about 7 miles the more direct route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Really? Said it beforehand...people not turning up to essentially an 'air your grievances' night is a good thing in my book. Trust me, if it was an unpopular move then the place would have been rammed. I'd say absence isn't a sign of opposition but support. Everyone knew what was said would be reported back anyway. There was no need for most to travel and pay to just to listen to the residents and Dynamos complain, and to listen to SC et al reaffirm everything we already knew. Alternatively, it could be a case of 'SP 2000, Ferney Fields, BP will be redeveloped, BP won't be redeveloped, we'll build a stadium to share with another club, oh no we won't, we'll move to Failsworth in a small stadium...heard it all before, believe it when I see it.' A bit like talk of promotion and sustaining a Championship club. Pie-in-the-sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Once a little stadium is built, that's it folks. Little stadium, little club. What happens if we break the usual trend and expand the stadium after recieving new investment into the club? Do you have an answer for that, or that just won't happen period? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 i stand corrected. so thats a saving of £20grand a month from previous. so why the books ,as corney proposes,a sticky point to future buyers? what has this new stadium got that will claw back this £40grand a month loss? i don't see it. Just 10 5-a-side pitches at £40 per hour at say four sessions per day/night at conservatively 20days per month would amount to £32k per month in rental alone. I have no idea what other facilities are planned but it would seem that there is definitely scope for making money from a new development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Give me the figures (all the figures) and I'll try. Very ambiguous question if I may say so. No fan posting on here knows what is and isn't viable, least of all attention-seeking spreaders of false rumours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 This development is not what I hoped for.... Just looks like we have little other option... TTA wont stand to keep us where we are... I honestly believe that they feel they cant support us going forward which means move or they sell up... But no new buyer is stepping forward... What to do... We have two choices... Go with the flow.. Get the new stadium and hopefully someone new takes over and builds us up or it happens under TTA... Or we fight it and take the chances of a new owner coming in and TTA not just deciding to close the club and build houses... We really dont have that many great choices... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) what has this new stadium got that will claw back this £40grand a month loss? That is the key question which I think should be focused on entirely... The rest of the issues are not as big as this one... This one is key to if we should support this or not I think... and shows the true motivations behind this move... Edited August 11, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 my point is that its becoming a little nearer than some would like to believe, in fact asap in the eyes of some. all this "latics is dying" crap is quite different to the "we are one of the best run clubs in this division" spout we were hearing this time last year. emotional blackmail. the personnel advantages far outweigh the latics advantages. And don't the lemmings on here love each wild change of direction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_tak Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 No. If you think I sound like Number Twenty you are not paying attention. In fact, I was one of those who used to argue against him from time to time. Wasn't he primarily a rugby fan? I have no real interest in rugby. I can't suggest something more viable. Then again, it isn't my role as an ordinary fan to do so. And I'm not against the development in itself, just the permanently smalltime existence that's being prepared for the club. The club is lying down with the Rochdales, Stockports and Burys of this world. The Shrewsburys and the Colchesters. You are beginning to sound like a broken record! I have tried reading all your posts, but can't seem to get over this fixation you have with the so-called level of "small-time" existence. So what? Are you seriously expecting a club the size of Oldham Athletic to ever compete with relatively near-neighbours such as Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Everton, Wigan, Leeds and even Bolton? Our catchment area is not significant enough to warrant a large-capacity stadium and, if by some sheer miracle, we get back into the Championship and the Premiership, the capacity can be extended. Why should OAFC build a stadium with, say, a capacity of 18,000, only to have it hold around 5,000 supporters every other week and having an atmosphere like a biscuit tin? Why should the Directors throw good money after bad at the club, in attempt to get Latics higher up the leagues, when the people of Oldham respond with apathy and decide to sit in front of the goggle box, preferring to watch the big fish instead? For OAFC to raise themselves above the level of the "Rochdales, Stockports and Burys of this world", we would need significant investment from a source other than the ones we have now. I don't see that happening. Do you? Oldham Athletic does not seem to have the good fortune in that department that the likes of Wigan, Fulham, Notts County etc. have had. We are a third-tier club. With a good season and a bit of luck, we could become a second-tier club, but I'll tell you now, the crowds won't increase by much because Oldham just doesn't have the fan base and we would struggle to make an impact. Add to that, entertainment streams, which have increased greatly since we graced the top two flights, plus the changing dynamics of small-town Oldham. All have made a significant impact on the sport in the area. This new stadium is a definite step in the right direction and I'm sure any loyal Latics fan would not begrudge traveling a few extra miles for the luxury of sitting in a good stadium, with good facilities and all the attendant benefits that go with it. It would also represent a better chance of increasing attendances than the current run-down shack we call home. The Directors are open to any suggestions of a viable alternative but it is obvious that OAFC can not hang around on this one. The groundwork for this site has been laid and progress needs to made. I, for one, am under no illusions that if this venture fails, OAFC will eventually disappear into the dark recesses of non-league football, being played out in a crumbling edifice of a ground, or even worse, go out of business. Where will the "hardcore fans" be then? Where will you be? One more thing, look at this picture of BP what more incentive to move could anyone need? Thanks for posting your report, sheridans_world, you've obviously put a great deal of work into it and it is much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Well from what we have heard so far - 2 3G Pitches - 2 Grass Pitches - 10 5 a side pitches - conferencing facilities - IH said there would also be potential for 1 or 2 other commercial ventures? But would this pull in 40k a month profit, after decucting the cost of maintenance, wages etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 The credit crunch. Hammered the TTA in America, where they're money comes from. So they have not got as much money as thy did have. I am not saying they are on the breadline, but chucking away 1/2m a years is to tought to take. Don;t forget we wou.ld now be well on our way to building all the flats and the other self sustaining developments. The TTA was always making a self sustaining busines then exit. Of course they would make money, but who would begrudge them that after investing 27million. There are not enough Jack Walkers in Oldham to just put allth eir money into LAtics. and how much are they worth? an half a million hit short term isn't going to affect their long term goal,as you say,to make cash and exit. but they have hit the point where they are rushing this through -because they want out. tell them to publicly put the club up for sale then..with the land they have purchased ...and who says they have to be in oldham? would any potential new owner look at the failsworth proposal and think.."yep,its the only option.."? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 i stand corrected. so thats a saving of £20grand a month from previous. so why the books ,as corney proposes,a sticky point to future buyers? what has this new stadium got that will claw back this £40grand a month loss? i don't see it. I think that is the $6m question. At the moment,, that would be an awful lot of money to make up from Sport facilities hier, but it is only £1k a day approx. Funnily enough, the TTA have said they are spending £1k a dt if you get £500 per day from Sport facility and £500 per day less mainteance costs then you are sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 TTA did not offer an opportunity for the average joe to see the accounts. They said that if someone was willing to submit a serious offer to buy the club then they would let them see the accounts and Simon Corney gave the impression that said "new owner" would run a mile after seeing the accounts. This idea that the club, or any club, is run with consideration for the opinions of fans is simply childish. No wonder we get the politicians we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Are you seriously expecting a club the size of Oldham Athletic to ever compete with relatively near-neighbours such as Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Everton, Wigan, Leeds and even Bolton? Oh no, you'll set him off now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Well from what we have heard so far - 2 3G Pitches - 2 Grass Pitches - 10 5 a side pitches - conferencing facilities - IH said there would also be potential for 1 or 2 other commercial ventures? But would this pull in 40k a month profit, after decucting the cost of maintenance, wages etc? That is presuming that OAFC owns these pitches and will actually receive the profits. We will own the "ground" I am lead to believe... But what about the rest of the site ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downender2 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I think you may be right, but can you blame them? After the general apathy of the Oldham public, taking 5 years to finally win over the council and just not having a feeling of gratitude by anyone except a hardcore band of fans. I think their message regarding this is clear, but at least they're aiming to get Latics to a self-sufficiant state of affairs before they do depart for pastures new. I know of a lot of other asset-stripping types who'd have nowhere near the amount of patience that TTA are showing. I think hypothetically should we get the new stadium, albeit a small capacity at first, we'll be in a strong position for investment from somewhere else. A founder Premier League club, debt free in a brand new expendable stadium is a very attractive offer, but it's key we get past the next few hurdles and move to Failsworth. As it stands, we are dying as a club and will do unless this move happens. As it stands, we are dying as a club and will do unless this move happens. I totally agree with this....time to stop pontificating and secure the future of the club...this is what is important, number one priority imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Sometimes I think what you are saying... Other times I think they are just trying to do the best of a bad situation... To all intents and purposes it's the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 That is presuming that OAFC owns these pitches and will actually receive the profits. We will own the "ground" I am lead to believe... But what about the rest of the site ? Well SC quoted last night the revenue generated from these facilities "would be put back into the club" although again, that does not necessarily mean that Oldham Athletic (2004) association Football Club will 'own' the facilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 To all intents and purposes it's the same thing. Quite possibly... Made its time to just accept the reality of the situation... Survival is more important than ambition when push comes to shove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 i thought he stated he had this down to £15 grand a month? so,what went wrong? they knock the broadway stand down to stop expenses it was causing,they let BP fall into a state of disrepair,yet we are still £40 grand a month down? I'm sure that we were told it was down to £10-15 grand a month not long ago. £40,000 a month isn't far from what we were said to be losing under Chris Moore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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