real Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Have it your way. But the way it's looking to me, this club seems to be having a very hard time getting out of the division. So hard that it's becoming ever clearer that it has no longer any genuine intentions of doing so. I'll take that failure to respond as an admission that you are talking rubbish. And yet again you're trying to turn a discussion towards your favourite area. I'd say that top ten finishes in the last 4 years show a clear improvment on the first 4 years in this league, exlcuding the mega-money-moore pair and the 2 years that followed them. Why do you think that shows a lack of ambition? If there was such a lack, surely we'd be seeing year upon year of mid-table/relegation flirtation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 New modern facilities for staff and fans alike? Supposed extra revenue streams? Better transport links? Surely even you can see that a new stadium has its benefits. I forget though football all depends on capacity doesnt it As enough people have already said, we know nothing so far about any extra revenue streams. And better transport links will have no effect on how many people would be prepared to come and watch third or fourth division mediocrity. Nor will modern facilities for players and fans. I presume that the facilities at the small stadiums that a number of permanently lower division clubs have built in recent years are fairly modern. When it comes to building new stadiums, capacity is about where you aim to take a club. A ceiling of 12000 suggests that the intention isn't to take this one all that far from where we are now. (Cue the usual bleating about 'extending capacity.') Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I'll take that failure to respond as an admission that you are talking rubbish. And yet again you're trying to turn a discussion towards your favourite area. I'd say that top ten finishes in the last 4 years show a clear improvment on the first 4 years in this league, exlcuding the mega-money-moore pair and the 2 years that followed them. Why do you think that shows a lack of ambition? If there was such a lack, surely we'd be seeing year upon year of mid-table/relegation flirtation? Top ten finishes do not take you out of the division. Nor do they arrest the kind of decline that sees a club putting out thoroughly mediocre teams playing in front of a declining fanbase in a deteriorating stadium, with the only ray of hope a proposal of a stadium whise capacity suggests that the best we can hope for is more top ten finishes in the third division. Apart from that, they represent progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 As enough people have already said, we know nothing so far about any extra revenue streams. And better transport links will have no effect on how many people would be prepared to come and watch third or fourth division mediocrity. Nor will modern facilities for players and fans. I presume that the facilities at the small stadiums that a number of permanently lower division clubs have built in recent years are fairly modern. When it comes to building new stadiums, capacity is about where you aim to take a club. A ceiling of 12000 suggests that the intention isn't to take this one all that far from where we are now. (Cue the usual bleating about 'extending capacity.') Oh come on ghost, you're getting silly now- transport links have no effect? better facilities will have no effect? On which planet are you living? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Some crystal ball that you have their. So you know for a FACT that this is what would happen? I presume that any false dawns which you refer to may be top half/play off spot finishes. Would that be an error on the clubs part by perhaps being a little bit too successful which they do not want to happen as they would much prefer a stagnant, oops sorry a declining lower league football club? I never said it was FACT or even fact. It was a prediction based on the trajectory the club has been on since about 1994. Dawns count for nothing if they turn out to be false. History judges them harshly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haribo_man Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Top ten finishes do not take you out of the division. Nor do they arrest the kind of decline that sees a club putting out thoroughly mediocre teams playing in front of a declining fanbase in a deteriorating stadium, with the only ray of hope a proposal of a stadium whise capacity suggests that the best we can hope for is more top ten finishes in the third division. Apart from that, they represent progress. it wouldn't be a deteriorating stadium would it though eh Corp? It would be nice and new and shiny, ooh there's a positive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 alexandra park would be crap, its right in the middle of an are where no one wants to watch oldham. and before you say the same about failsworth, i suggest you do some research before believing all you read from the loud, but small opposition group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Oh come on ghost, you're getting silly now- transport links have no effect? better facilities will have no effect? On which planet are you living? Of course they won't have any effect on progressing up the divisons if, as the small capacity being proposed suggests, there is no serious aim to do so. (Or perhaps no longer any serious belief that it can be done.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 it wouldn't be a deteriorating stadium would it though eh Corp? It would be nice and new and shiny, ooh there's a positive Think of all the 'positives' you want, Mr Credulous. The fact remains that it will (if it actually gets built and doesn't go the way of all the other nonsense we've been fed about stadiums over the years) it will be a modern stadium which is, as the proposed capacity suggests, a stadium designed for permanent lower division football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haribo_man Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Think of all the 'positives' you want, Mr Credulous. The fact remains that it will (if it actually gets built and doesn't go the way of all the other nonsense we've been fed about stadiums over the years) it will be a modern stadium which is, as the proposed capacity suggests, a stadium designed for permanent lower division football. Yes because the stadium scores the goals which get you promoted. I've got a great idea, why don't we build a stadia with the capacity of 200,000 and be the best team in England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haribo_man Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Think of all the 'positives' you want, Mr Credulous. The fact remains that it will (if it actually gets built and doesn't go the way of all the other nonsense we've been fed about stadiums over the years) it will be a modern stadium which is, as the proposed capacity suggests, a stadium designed for permanent lower division football. Yes because the stadium scores the goals which get you promoted. I've got a great idea, why don't we build a stadia with the capacity of 200,000 and be the best team in England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Corp, I like a lot of your posts, do you not think though as per my longer post above that we have a chance of attracting better players in admittedly not a 16 or 20,000 seater but neverthless well designed stadium. This coupled with better training facilities will make a difference. If we have better players the thought would be that we would see better performances on the pitch which could re-ignite interest and bring more money into the club via increased turnstile revenue.(As well as other add ons which I believe would be revenue generators though this is anecdotal not proven). This may help pay for future ground development and help us look upwards rather than accepting our current position at BP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Corp, I like a lot of your posts, do you not think though as per my longer post above that we have a chance of attracting better players in admittedly not a 16 or 20,000 seater but neverthless well designed stadium. This coupled with better training facilities will make a difference. If we have better players the thought would be that we would see better performances on the pitch which could re-ignite interest and bring more money into the club via increased turnstile revenue.(As well as other add ons which I believe would be revenue generators though this is anecdotal not proven). This may help pay for future ground development and help us look upwards rather than accepting our current position at BP. I don't believe that we can attract significantly better players if the aim is to be a well run lower division club (they won't be needed.) The small capacity being proposed suggests to me that this is indeed the aim. After all, as it keeps having to be pointed out, until the demolition of the Lookers we were still occasionally able to attract more than 12000 to a game. Aside from the fact that players don't generally come to clubs primarily because they admire the stadiums, we know absolutely nothing about the design. It might be very nice. On the other hand it might be one of those cheap-looking, typically lower league boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Yes because the stadium scores the goals which get you promoted. I've got a great idea, why don't we build a stadia with the capacity of 200,000 and be the best team in England Like I say, have it your way. But I think you're going to be a very disappointed man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OminousPoultry Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Like I say, have it your way. But I think you're going to be a very disappointed man. Is the library closed today Corp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Is the library closed today Corp? Obviously Paltry never actually writes anything on here unless it's about me. Clearly, I find this highly discouraging to posting on here. I wish I could be one of the credulous 'optimists.' I think they might be happier on the whole despite the inevitable feeling of constant disappointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Top ten finishes do not take you out of the division. Nor do they arrest the kind of decline that sees a club putting out thoroughly mediocre teams playing in front of a declining fanbase in a deteriorating stadium, with the only ray of hope a proposal of a stadium whise capacity suggests that the best we can hope for is more top ten finishes in the third division. Apart from that, they represent progress. Good god, i thought we'd sorted out the attendance thing out yonks ago. 2002, new owner, bigger spending, premier league era boost to gates across all divisions, finished 9th; 5800 average attendance. 2009, 12 years in the same division, decline after decline, stagnation upon stagnation, declining fanbase, we're all doomed, no-one want to turn up at latics, finished 10th; 5636 average attendance. How will we cope without the missing 164 fans? (note- huge decline in economy, job losses, possible recession, housing crisis). Come on, try to work with facts, rather than just plugging the same old tired arguments based on nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Good god, i thought we'd sorted out the attendance thing out yonks ago. 2002, new owner, bigger spending, premier league era boost to gates across all divisions, finished 9th; 5800 average attendance. 2009, 12 years in the same division, decline after decline, stagnation upon stagnation, declining fanbase, we're all doomed, no-one want to turn up at latics, finished 10th; 5636 average attendance. How will we cope without the missing 164 fans? (note- huge decline in economy, job losses, possible recession, housing crisis). Come on, try to work with facts, rather than just plugging the same old tired arguments based on nothing. If you want to witness what a declining fanbase looks like, keep watching. Apart from that, I'm glad that you think that sticking to the same basic 5000-odd represents, like several top ten finishes, some kind of progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 If you want to witness what a declining fanbase looks like, keep watching. Apart from that, I'm glad that you think that sticking to the same basic 5000-odd represents, like several top ten finishes, some kind of progress. I could be wrong, as I was only 11 or 12 when we dropped to this level, but I am pretty sure after Warnocks first half a season I saw not getting relegated as a good season. In my memory the teams that Ritchie was putting out were awful and were lucky to not get relegated. I was always waiting for the inevitable to happen luckily it didnt. Now I see us as a team who can hold their own with the teams at the right end of the table so some progress has been made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Mark Oasis almost only ever posts to reproach me, as well (usually when a 'gang' is beginning to form.) The difference between him and Poultry seems to be that Polutry makes an effort to actually write something, whereas Marky is one of those grown adults who seems to think that smilies actually have an effect on who they're directed at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I could be wrong, as I was only 11 or 12 when we dropped to this level, but I am pretty sure after Warnocks first half a season I saw not getting relegated as a good season. In my memory the teams that Ritchie was putting out were awful and were lucky to not get relegated. I was always waiting for the inevitable to happen luckily it didnt. Now I see us as a team who can hold their own with the teams at the right end of the table so some progress has been made. Personally, I fail to see how hanging around the same division for thirteen or more seasons, at whatever level, as progress. I thought progress was when you move up the divisions, rather than have a resonable season followed by a slightly less reasonable one, then another ad infinitum. And having a few top ten finishes doesn't mean that, as budgets are cut as fans get disappointed and stop buying season tickets etc, you won't eventually be fighting relegation again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Mark will be smiling and waving his flag all the way to the Conference. Some people are just happy daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 If you want to witness what a declining fanbase looks like, keep watching. Apart from that, I'm glad that you think that sticking to the same basic 5000-odd represents, like several top ten finishes, some kind of progress. I didn't say it was progress, YOU said it was a decline. You really are a repetitive, self-absorbed individual. You think facts are interchangeable with fiction and fail to use either in an effective way. In the latter part of the 90s we were a club in very serious decline, only saved by a fool with a lot of money that was quickly parted from him. We are now much more solid both financially, and on a football level than we were at the end of 2000/01 season when we finished 15th with gates of under 5000. Come on ghost, give it a proper go at putting a convincing, fact based point into the discussion, rather than this dull dishwater you're slopping out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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