slurms mckenzie Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 The owners. I don't even know where to start. They're absolute morons. Like Sheridan, they've out-stayed their welcome. They've took us as far as they possibly can. They're out of their depths here. Simple. The clangers they've dropped are laughable. I imagine they've got a team around them - they're berks too! Start with the commercial side of things. I've seen a few lambast that area. My personal favourite is the fact they call themselves buisnessmen; a recession doens't just happen over night. Go to bed, wake up and bang. Financial meltdown. So what did they do? I think we all know. It involves £100,000 and a stand being levelled. I think they're actually embarassed. They were giving a bit of mouth a year ago. They've gone very quiet now. Laurel and Hardy would be proud. Well said. However good their intentions, their incompetence knows no bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Bar the big boys in this division, we're no different to any other club. Tranmere - Sack a manager who nearly got them to the play-offs and replace him with a joke Stockport - Still in big financial problems and have had to call off the last two homes games because of the state of their pitch Southend - Financial problems and have faced a winding up order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Obviously, few on here know what's going on properly at other clubs, but I honestly think we're the Laurel and Hardy of League One. We're a joke. The whole set-up is an utter balls-up. The fans, players, manager, and the owners. I say Penney's a joke. He's the one I sympathise with. He's scraped together a side which has got so many confidence players it defies belief. His luck has been unreal. The injuries has clearly effected us massively. My main gripe with him: the final third. I haven't seen us this bad in front of goal since I've been going. On Tuesday we had Parker drifting left and Heffernan drifting right. Who's in the box? Nobody. It doesn't take a bleedin' genius to see it. When Abbott returns I wouldn't mind seeing them all up top and use three in midfield, because there's about as much point in a circle as us having wingers out there. And are we still talking about Sheridan? Why? He had to go. I don't know what was worse, the results or the football. I didn't call for his head, but the Dons disaster was the final straw. Shame, but he had to go. Get over it. The owners. I don't even know where to start. They're absolute morons. Like Sheridan, they've out-stayed their welcome. They've took us as far as they possibly can. They're out of their depths here. Simple. The clangers they've dropped are laughable. I imagine they've got a team around them - they're berks too! Start with the commercial side of things. I've seen a few lambast that area. My personal favourite is the fact they call themselves buisnessmen; a recession doens't just happen over night. Go to bed, wake up and bang. Financial meltdown. So what did they do? I think we all know. It involves £100,000 and a stand being levelled. I think they're actually embarassed. They were giving a bit of mouth a year ago. They've gone very quiet now. Laurel and Hardy would be proud. We deserve relegation to be blunt. I'd agree with most of that, but he has shelled out 100k more in transfer fees than a lot of other clubs have. His negative tactics are woeful. Even when we had Abbott we never had anyone in he box. Worrying times. We deserve relegation? We're certainly in for a battle anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Bar the big boys in this division, we're no different to any other club. Tranmere - Sack a manager who nearly got them to the play-offs and replace him with a joke Stockport - Still in big financial problems and have had to call off the last two homes games because of the state of their pitch Southend - Financial problems and have faced a winding up order. There is a difference though....Despite opinions to the contrary TTA have got a few bob...They are multimillionaires and bought this football club knowing full well all the implications. The three clubs you use as examples are all skint....we/TTA are definitely not!!! If the TTA had concentrated on the team more when they first arrived we would probably be in the championship now and 3/4 way through the BP development. The only way to increase revenue and fanbase is by having a successful team out on the pitch and if they had addressed that problem at the start we wouldn't be in this mess!! It's not rocket science....Fans come to watch their team play football....the better the team the better the crowd.......If you have a successful side out on the pitch everything else will kook after itself!!! They say we are on a far better financial footing than when they took over......How exactly can that be the case? If they left tomorrow we would fold before the end of the season!!! I don't know who drafted their business plan but it seems to me that they have just stumbled from one disaster to another!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Do you know the extent of the TTA's finances then? Do you know how said finances were affected by the recession/credit crunch? And for the muppet who says didn't you spot the recession coming, does he not realise that it caught the majority of Capitalist economies cold as it was induced by regulation that led to an almost overnight drying up of credit availability or is that the TTA's fault to. Yes they have made mistakes, and yes the manager isn't currently setting the world alight with his tactics, however to blame the tta for all our ills. BTW if they did leave it may be easier to save the club because the debts and running costs are signifcantly lower than they were before hence we are on a far better financial footing than we were before. Lastly I don't think getting it right on the pitch in recent years has helped Portsmouth(more trouble to come), Leeds, Southampton(how many years in the Prem), Coventry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 There is a difference though....Despite opinions to the contrary TTA have got a few bob...They are multimillionaires and bought this football club knowing full well all the implications. The three clubs you use as examples are all skint....we/TTA are definitely not!!! If the TTA had concentrated on the team more when they first arrived we would probably be in the championship now and 3/4 way through the BP development. The only way to increase revenue and fanbase is by having a successful team out on the pitch and if they had addressed that problem at the start we wouldn't be in this mess!! It's not rocket science....Fans come to watch their team play football....the better the team the better the crowd.......If you have a successful side out on the pitch everything else will kook after itself!!! They say we are on a far better financial footing than when they took over......How exactly can that be the case? If they left tomorrow we would fold before the end of the season!!! I don't know who drafted their business plan but it seems to me that they have just stumbled from one disaster to another!! Sad how a bad start to a season and a planned move which some are against clouds what has gone before. We tried throwing money at promotion, it nearly caused the club to fold. We've had some fantastic players here during TTA's reign, Ritchie Wellens, Luke Beckett, Lee Hughes, Chris Porter, Sean Gregan and brought in top class loan signings in Lee Croft, Neil Kilkenny and Lee Grant only to be let down by the managers for one reason or another. They've listened to the fans on numerous times when it should have been wise to ignore them but all of a sudden they've become shysters who's sole intention 6 seasons ago was to lead us up to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Either I went drinking at lunchtime without realising it, or Coco just referred to Lee Hughes as a fantastic player... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Do you know the extent of the TTA's finances then? Do you know how said finances were affected by the recession/credit crunch? And for the muppet who says didn't you spot the recession coming, does he not realise that it caught the majority of Capitalist economies cold as it was induced by regulation that led to an almost overnight drying up of credit availability or is that the TTA's fault to. Yes they have made mistakes, and yes the manager isn't currently setting the world alight with his tactics, however to blame the tta for all our ills. BTW if they did leave it may be easier to save the club because the debts and running costs are signifcantly lower than they were before hence we are on a far better financial footing than we were before. Lastly I don't think getting it right on the pitch in recent years has helped Portsmouth(more trouble to come), Leeds, Southampton(how many years in the Prem), Coventry But there was no credit crunch when they arrived .......All I'm saying is if they had invested a little bit more on the playing side all these problems brought on by the credit crunch would have been much less severe and we would have been in a better position as far as income from fans! As it is, the hardcore fanbase has probably reduced by as much as 40% over the last 5 years and that it is almost entirely due to the quality out on the pitch!!! We should have gone for a little more quality rather than quantity....The amount of money they have wasted on loanees and has beens over the last few seasons has been criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Sad how a bad start to a season and a planned move which some are against clouds what has gone before. We tried throwing money at promotion, it nearly caused the club to fold. We've had some fantastic players here during TTA's reign, Ritchie Wellens, Luke Beckett, Lee Hughes, Chris Porter, Sean Gregan and brought in top class loan signings in Lee Croft, Neil Kilkenny and Lee Grant only to be let down by the managers for one reason or another. They've listened to the fans on numerous times when it should have been wise to ignore them but all of a sudden they've become shysters who's sole intention 6 seasons ago was to lead us up to this point. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLatics Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Do you know the extent of the TTA's finances then? Do you know how said finances were affected by the recession/credit crunch? And for the muppet who says didn't you spot the recession coming, does he not realise that it caught the majority of Capitalist economies cold as it was induced by regulation that led to an almost overnight drying up of credit availability or is that the TTA's fault to. Yes they have made mistakes, and yes the manager isn't currently setting the world alight with his tactics, however to blame the tta for all our ills. BTW if they did leave it may be easier to save the club because the debts and running costs are signifcantly lower than they were before hence we are on a far better financial footing than we were before. Lastly I don't think getting it right on the pitch in recent years has helped Portsmouth(more trouble to come), Leeds, Southampton(how many years in the Prem), Coventry The recession point: it was foreseen, but TTA probably was doing what everyone seemed to be doing, spending and borrowing willy-nilly and being too ignorant to actually take note. Not TTA's fault, no, but a major factor in our rapid decline over the last year or so. I don't blame TTA for everything. Sheridan lost the dressing-room, which despite the change in manager, doesn't seem to be recaptured. I do, however, blame TTA for taking the atmosphere and optimism from the club. You can sense it. Add all our problems up and it doesn't look to clever. Obviously, 2 wins on the spin and we're certs for promotion again... It's forced me to write tear-provoking stuff such as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Bar the big boys in this division, we're no different to any other club. Which is why we're staying here and planning a stadium to fit. And for the muppet who says didn't you spot the recession coming, does he not realise that it caught the majority of Capitalist economies cold as it was induced by regulation that led to an almost overnight drying up of credit availability or is that the TTA's fault to. No it wasn't. It was 'induced' by lack of regulation that encouraged reckless financial gambling, and the encouragement by the so-called financial industry of unprecedented levels of debt at all levels of society. A hell of a lot of people saw what was coming-they just don't have much access to the mainstream media, which means that you remain marginalised. all of a sudden they've become shysters who's sole intention 6 seasons ago was to lead us up to this point. Nobody has said that. As it is, the hardcore fanbase has probably reduced by as much as 40% over the last 5 years and that it is almost entirely due to the quality out on the pitch!!! The response to the £2 offer game will be an indication of just how close to the point of no return this club has been brought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 The recession point: it was foreseen, but TTA probably was doing what everyone seemed to be doing, spending and borrowing willy-nilly and being too ignorant to actually take note. Not TTA's fault, no, but a major factor in our rapid decline over the last year or so. I don't blame TTA for everything. Sheridan lost the dressing-room, which despite the change in manager, doesn't seem to be recaptured. I do, however, blame TTA for taking the atmosphere and optimism from the club. You can sense it. Add all our problems up and it doesn't look to clever. Obviously, 2 wins on the spin and we're certs for promotion again... It's forced me to write tear-provoking stuff such as this. I accept a few analysts saw the debt issue mounting, however my understanding only is that it was the way the US regulators(SARBOX anyone) then changed the way that debts(toxic assets was the new term)could be valued causing financial institutions to loose billions off their value due to stockmarket panic. This badly injured(killed is to strong a word as thanks to external funding they continue to operate)the financial markets, froze liquidity and cash lending meaning that credit that had been in place for many years was removed in an instant causing viable buisnesses to fail. My two penneth is that we had a team that had a chance to succeed but failed due to a number of reasons including player power, bad loan decisions and maybe a reduction in available cash. How important does that £600k for Porter seem now! I personally don't blame the TTA just think that they are reducing investments/moving the club because the siz of their own fortunes have decreased and they need to balance what they can afford with keeping the club running at the moment. However I think the decline this year has been worse than they forecast hence the need to bring in Guy and the PR company to help the club to a more even keel. I do think DP's tactics are too cautious at the mo, the only time(admittedly against 10 men)that we had adventure and overlapping fullbacks was Colchester and that was good. The rest has been overly cautious and devoid of attacking flair IMO. However this doesn't mean it can't get better nor does it mean DP isn't a good manager, he just needs to move us forward and lastly it does sadden me that people with vicious tongues and short memories think they can have a pop at the suitability to run the club of the guys who history says kept the club going. Thats where I am(that last comment is not aimed at you personally btw to clarify, it is generic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I accept a few analysts saw the debt issue mounting, however my understanding only is that it was the way the US regulators(SARBOX anyone) then changed the way that debts(toxic assets was the new term)could be valued causing financial institutions to loose billions off their value due to stockmarket panic. This badly injured(killed is to strong a word as thanks to external funding they continue to operate)the financial markets, froze liquidity and cash lending meaning that credit that had been in place for many years was removed in an instant causing viable buisnesses to fail. My two penneth is that we had a team that had a chance to succeed but failed due to a number of reasons including player power, bad loan decisions and maybe a reduction in available cash. How important does that £600k for Porter seem now! I personally don't blame the TTA just think that they are reducing investments/moving the club because the siz of their own fortunes have decreased and they need to balance what they can afford with keeping the club running at the moment. However I think the decline this year has been worse than they forecast hence the need to bring in Guy and the PR company to help the club to a more even keel. I do think DP's tactics are too cautious at the mo, the only time(admittedly against 10 men)that we had adventure and overlapping fullbacks was Colchester and that was good. The rest has been overly cautious and devoid of attacking flair IMO. However this doesn't mean it can't get better nor does it mean DP isn't a good manager, he just needs to move us forward and lastly it does sadden me that people with vicious tongues and short memories think they can have a pop at the suitability to run the club of the guys who history says kept the club going. Thats where I am(that last comment is not aimed at you personally btw to clarify, it is generic) Anyway, isn't the reason it's said that the club can no longer afford the redevelopment of BP simply what the recession has done to the value of the land whose sale was supposed to be funding the project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 And for the muppet who says didn't you spot the recession coming, does he not realise that it caught the majority of Capitalist economies cold as it was induced by regulation that led to an almost overnight drying up of credit availability or is that the TTA's fault to. I have seen tidal waves less obvious than the current recession... If you want to re-write history then fine BUT the recession was well on the agenda BEFORE the lookers was dropped... I have proven this in other threads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Anyway, isn't the reason it's said that the club can no longer afford the redevelopment of BP simply what the recession has done to the value of the land whose sale was supposed to be funding the project? I agree with that but if the overall cedit crunch hadn't happened then I have a feeling the TTA may have put more of their own/investors money into the redevelopment of BP. But then the land price wouldn't have fallen anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I have seen tidal waves less obvious than the current recession... If you want to re-write history then fine BUT the recession was well on the agenda BEFORE the lookers was dropped... I have proven this in other threads... Lehmans and Behr(?) Sterns didn't. Apparently the cost of keeping the Lookers standing/open was prohibitive. They have 3 stands that are not full and weren't before it was knocked down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I have seen tidal waves less obvious than the current recession... If you want to re-write history then fine BUT the recession was well on the agenda BEFORE the lookers was dropped... I have proven this in other threads... Exactly. Anybody who can't see that a society where borrowing without end is actively encouraged is going to hit a brick wall at some point is either a moron, a charlaton or a swivel-eyed market fundamentalist dogmatist. For too long governement and corporations the world over have been dominated by a mixture of all three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Lehmans and Behr(?) Sterns didn't. The hitherto much-lauded Alan Greenspan, market fundamentalist par excellence said, 'There was a flaw in the system that we overlooked.' Or words to that effect. Bless him. Nobel Prizes? I wouldn't trust his kind to do our weekly shop at Morrison's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Lehmans and Behr(?) Sterns didn't. Apparently the cost of keeping the Lookers standing/open was prohibitive. They have 3 stands that are not full and weren't before it was knocked down! i know the real reason behind the demolition...its nothing to do with maintainable cost or them not being full. hint..guess why the rugby aren't at BP anymore.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 i know the real reason behind the demolition...its nothing to do with maintainable cost or them not being full. hint..guess why the rugby aren't at BP anymore.... Can you expand on that a little? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 i know the real reason behind the demolition...its nothing to do with maintainable cost or them not being full. hint..guess why the rugby aren't at BP anymore.... Go on then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Lehmans and Behr(?) Sterns didn't. Apparently the cost of keeping the Lookers standing/open was prohibitive. They have 3 stands that are not full and weren't before it was knocked down! Of course they saw it coming!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 The credit crunch or the recession? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 The credit crunch or the recession? It's all one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Exactly. Anybody who can't see that a society where borrowing without end is actively encouraged is going to hit a brick wall at some point is either a moron, a charlaton or a swivel-eyed market fundamentalist dogmatist. For too long governement and corporations the world over have been dominated by a mixture of all three. It may have been coming as may global warming when we had an ice age but no-one foresaw that it was imminent and no-one saw the scale of the "Toxic Debt" in the US. The system in the UK would not have fallen over at that moment if it wasn't for the sub-prime mortagages in the US. BTW Borrowing is fine if you can repay even if it takes 50 years to do so. The issue starts when repayments stop. The amount of repossesions increased after the crunch hit because availability of money was/is restricted(pre fiscal stimulus). This issue was caused in the sudden upward spike in the cost of borrowing due to the remaining lenders' suspicion of the ability of institutions they had trusted previously ability to repay. The UK market was not ready to go and the recession was brought forward due to events overseas mystic megs. Unless you had a view of the US sub prime market you would not have foreseen the credit crunch. The recession that has followed is another matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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