Next England Squad

[mikejh45]

Now that Fabio is staying, this post is to see what your thoughts are to his comments about bringing young, hungry players in and who should never see an England shirt again.

 

Out of the squad who went to SA, I would keep:

GK: Hart

DEF: Cole, Dawson

MID: Gerrard, Milner

FOR: Rooney, Defoe

 

and look to bring in the likes of Huddlestone, Johnson and the Blackburn lad Jones but I'll be honest here, I can't see too many more outstanding, young players around.

 

Your thoughts please.

[garcon]

First of all, several things should happen but won't, primarily because, as Richard Caborn was quoted as saying today, the FA is unfit for purpose and incapable of meeting its responsibilities.

 

One of those things should be to have the guts to say publicly, right now, that our primary target is to have an England squad capable of winning the World Cup in 2018, with 2014 a major milestone towards that, and Euro 2012 no more than a development opportunity to blood young players (in a tournament environment if we happen to qualify).

 

Looking at the 2010 WC squad from that point of view, and primarily based on age, we can safely say the following players have played their last World Cup:

James, A Cole, Gerrard, Terry, Lampard, Crouch, Barry, Upson, SWP, Carragher, King, and Heskey.

 

One or two of the above I would retain for the 2012 campaign, purely to help develop the England future squad and provide some element of experience should we qualify for the 2012 finals.

 

Of the 23, I think the following have an England future and may be among the senior players going to Brazil 2014:

Johnson, Dawson, Lennon, Rooney, J Cole, Milner, Defoe, Hart.

 

Players who didn't make it but should be considered for involvement from September include Walcott, Bent, Agbonlahor, Richards, Adam Johnson, Downing, Bentley, Steven Taylor and Huddlestone.

 

'Development squad' players, to watch, involve in England training camps and introduce when and if they're ready include Mancienne, Smalling, Gibbs, Rose, Cattermole, Rodwell, Wilshire, Gosling, Carroll and Welbeck.

 

There's alot of names there, some of them won't make it but I'd like to think, if managed correctly, the pipeline doesn't actually look too bad.

[mikejh45]

First of all, several things should happen but won't, primarily because, as Richard Caborn was quoted as saying today, the FA is unfit for purpose and incapable of meeting its responsibilities.

 

One of those things should be to have the guts to say publicly, right now, that our primary target is to have an England squad capable of winning the World Cup in 2018, with 2014 a major milestone towards that, and Euro 2012 no more than a development opportunity to blood young players (in a tournament environment if we happen to qualify).

 

Looking at the 2010 WC squad from that point of view, and primarily based on age, we can safely say the following players have played their last World Cup:

James, A Cole, Gerrard, Terry, Lampard, Crouch, Barry, Upson, SWP, Carragher, King, and Heskey.

 

One or two of the above I would retain for the 2012 campaign, purely to help develop the England future squad and provide some element of experience should we qualify for the 2012 finals.

 

Of the 23, I think the following have an England future and may be among the senior players going to Brazil 2014:

Johnson, Dawson, Lennon, Rooney, J Cole, Milner, Defoe, Hart.

 

Players who didn't make it but should be considered for involvement from September include Walcott, Bent, Agbonlahor, Richards, Adam Johnson, Downing, Bentley, Steven Taylor and Huddlestone.

 

'Development squad' players, to watch, involve in England training camps and introduce when and if they're ready include Mancienne, Smalling, Gibbs, Rose, Cattermole, Rodwell, Wilshire, Gosling, Carroll and Welbeck.

 

There's alot of names there, some of them won't make it but I'd like to think, if managed correctly, the pipeline doesn't actually look too bad.

 

 

I agree with a fair chunk of what you are saying especially looking past the next Euros towards 2014, but some of the elder "statesmen" need to be involved over the next couple of years to bring on the next generation. Gerrard would certainly be there but definately not Terry as I think he is too "English" in his defensive capabilities....we need to be looking at a more expansive European game, as has been seen during this World Cup.

Edited July 5, 2010 by mikejh45

[Stitch_KTF]

Perhaps if the F.A got the domestic leagues in order then the national team would follow, once again as per the Germans?

 

 

As for the arguments about 'technical ability' (i.e how good a footballer one is), I believe the global patterns of different player types are the results of different environments. Coaching is a mere side issue - after all, many of the top players actually have fairly unorthadox technique.

[Stitch_KTF]

I agree with a fair chunk of what you are saying especially looking past the next Euros towards 2014, but some of the elder "statesmen" need to be involved over the next couple of years to bring on the next generation. Gerrard would certainly be there but definately not Terry as I think he is too "English" in his defensive capabilities....we need to be looking at a more expansive European game, as has been seen during this World Cup.

 

 

Nah, stick to what you're good at and do it to the best of your ability. If that ain't good enough, which it invariably isn't, then so be it. We've tried to be something we're not, done worse than usual and devoided ourselves of any pride in the process.

 

If our best players suited a 'more expansive European game' then there wouldn't be so few English players to have moved abroad and succeeded since, forever.

[rudemedic]

First of all, several things should happen but won't, primarily because, as Richard Caborn was quoted as saying today, the FA is unfit for purpose and incapable of meeting its responsibilities.

 

One of those things should be to have the guts to say publicly, right now, that our primary target is to have an England squad capable of winning the World Cup in 2018, with 2014 a major milestone towards that, and Euro 2012 no more than a development opportunity to blood young players (in a tournament environment if we happen to qualify).

 

Looking at the 2010 WC squad from that point of view, and primarily based on age, we can safely say the following players have played their last World Cup:

James, A Cole, Gerrard, Terry, Lampard, Crouch, Barry, Upson, SWP, Carragher, King, and Heskey.

 

One or two of the above I would retain for the 2012 campaign, purely to help develop the England future squad and provide some element of experience should we qualify for the 2012 finals.

 

Of the 23, I think the following have an England future and may be among the senior players going to Brazil 2014:

Johnson, Dawson, Lennon, Rooney, J Cole, Milner, Defoe, Hart.

 

Players who didn't make it but should be considered for involvement from September include Walcott, Bent, Agbonlahor, Richards, Adam Johnson, Downing, Bentley, Steven Taylor and Huddlestone.

 

'Development squad' players, to watch, involve in England training camps and introduce when and if they're ready include Mancienne, Smalling, Gibbs, Rose, Cattermole, Rodwell, Wilshire, Gosling, Carroll and Welbeck.

 

There's alot of names there, some of them won't make it but I'd like to think, if managed correctly, the pipeline doesn't actually look too bad.

 

I'm not quite sure of your logic, you say SWP has played his last world cup, but Joe Cole who is younger by 2 weeks can still play in the next one, despite having had a serious injury. I'd keep Ashley Cole on board (although he might struggle to make 2014) as IMHO he is the best left back in the world. I'm also not too sure I'd want Andy Carroll anywhere near the national squad for a major tournament, he is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

 

If you look at the Spanish for example, their squad (and their first team) isn't too much different to the one that played in 2006. One big difference is Raul- he is thought to have been a disruptive influence in the camp especially involving the difficulties between the Madristas and the rest. Find out who our Raul is and don't let him near the team again (even if it was say Rooney). At major tournaments the squad is together for ages and the players have to get along to a certain extent- maybe the coaching team should be asking the likes of the rugby and cricket coaches how they dealt with it, if that is the case my first port of call would be Sir Ian McGeechan (the last Lions coach)..

[sjk2008]

I'm not quite sure of your logic, you say SWP has played his last world cup, but Joe Cole who is younger by 2 weeks can still play in the next one, despite having had a serious injury. I'd keep Ashley Cole on board (although he might struggle to make 2014) as IMHO he is the best left back in the world. I'm also not too sure I'd want Andy Carroll anywhere near the national squad for a major tournament, he is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

 

If you look at the Spanish for example, their squad (and their first team) isn't too much different to the one that played in 2006. One big difference is Raul- he is thought to have been a disruptive influence in the camp especially involving the difficulties between the Madristas and the rest. Find out who our Raul is and don't let him near the team again (even if it was say Rooney). At major tournaments the squad is together for ages and the players have to get along to a certain extent- maybe the coaching team should be asking the likes of the rugby and cricket coaches how they dealt with it, if that is the case my first port of call would be Sir Ian McGeechan (the last Lions coach)..

 

A World cup 2014 possible team:

 

****************HART****************

 

JOHNSON**CAHILL*****DAWSON****COLE

 

************HUDDLESTONE************

 

***LENNON****************MILNER*****

 

**************WILSHERE**************

 

*********ROONEY******AGBONLAHOR***

[sjk2008]

I'm not quite sure of your logic, you say SWP has played his last world cup, but Joe Cole who is younger by 2 weeks can still play in the next one, despite having had a serious injury. I'd keep Ashley Cole on board (although he might struggle to make 2014) as IMHO he is the best left back in the world. I'm also not too sure I'd want Andy Carroll anywhere near the national squad for a major tournament, he is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

 

If you look at the Spanish for example, their squad (and their first team) isn't too much different to the one that played in 2006. One big difference is Raul- he is thought to have been a disruptive influence in the camp especially involving the difficulties between the Madristas and the rest. Find out who our Raul is and don't let him near the team again (even if it was say Rooney). At major tournaments the squad is together for ages and the players have to get along to a certain extent- maybe the coaching team should be asking the likes of the rugby and cricket coaches how they dealt with it, if that is the case my first port of call would be Sir Ian McGeechan (the last Lions coach)..

 

A World cup 2014 possible team:

 

****************HART****************

 

JOHNSON**CAHILL*****DAWSON****COLE

 

************HUDDLESTONE************

 

***LENNON****************MILNER*****

 

**************WILSHERE**************

 

*********ROONEY******AGBONLAHOR***

[garcon]

SWP has had plenty of opportunity to prove he isn't good enough, and relies on pace which at 32 in 2014 will be on the wain.

 

Joe Cole has the ability to unlock a defence, and there were many, many voices expressing surprise at his lack of involvement in SA. He has a chance, which he may not prove good enough to take, and could anyway be scuppered by injury. have to admit he's the most borderline name on that list of those who might figure in 2014.

 

Cashley is another borderline case - I can't stand the little runt, but accept he is clearly our best left back and that his replacement may be some time in development (Gibbs??).

 

Spain are at a different point in their cycle, are looking good, and will probably have alot of this year's best players in their 2014 squad. Ideally our personnel changes would also be more gradual, but I feel we need something of a revolution to get to that point.

 

There is absolutely no reason to assume that we have a "Raul", i.e. a single disruptive influence. However, take note that Terry is in my discard list.

[Zorrro]

A World cup 2014 possible team:

 

****************HART****************

 

JOHNSON**CAHILL*****DAWSON****COLE

 

************HUDDLESTONE************

 

***LENNON****************MILNER*****

 

**************WILSHERE**************

 

*********ROONEY******AGBONLAHOR***

 

Get rid of Huddlestone for Rodwell, and Lennon for Walcott, and Wickham for Agbonlahor and you've got yourself a deal.

 

And, if someone can give his head a wobble, Richards for Dawson.

[garcon]

One name I didn't have on my list - Gary Cahill. Jagielka and Lescott might have a chance to be involved again too, at 28 they could make 2014.

[Zorrro]

Lescott's garbage. Jagielka I'll agree with, though.

[garcon]

Lescott's garbage.

But he was one of the Great Hopes when he was at Everton. Granted he's been rubbish since he moved.

[Zorrro]

He was famed for his goalscoring prowess, rather than his defensive capabilities (Jagielka was the one who stood out on that front).

[Ackey]

Lescott's garbage. Jagielka I'll agree with, though.

Four years of fitness and Jagielka will show just how 'world class' John Terry really was!

[rudemedic]

Four years of fitness and Jagielka will show just how 'world class' John Terry really was!

 

+1000000

 

Jagielka would have gone to SA for me- I would definately have taken him to the Swiss thing, 2 extra weeks to improve his fitness and Robert is your mother's brother. When Torres was going rampant 15 months ago, he gave Terry, Rio, Vidic (I know he ain't English but he makes Rio look reasonable), King and Dawson (if they were fit) trouble. Phil Jagielka had him in his pocket.

[rudemedic]

SWP has had plenty of opportunity to prove he isn't good enough, and relies on pace which at 32 in 2014 will be on the wain.

 

Joe Cole has the ability to unlock a defence, and there were many, many voices expressing surprise at his lack of involvement in SA. He has a chance, which he may not prove good enough to take, and could anyway be scuppered by injury. have to admit he's the most borderline name on that list of those who might figure in 2014.

 

Cashley is another borderline case - I can't stand the little runt, but accept he is clearly our best left back and that his replacement may be some time in development (Gibbs??).

 

Spain are at a different point in their cycle, are looking good, and will probably have alot of this year's best players in their 2014 squad. Ideally our personnel changes would also be more gradual, but I feel we need something of a revolution to get to that point.

 

There is absolutely no reason to assume that we have a "Raul", i.e. a single disruptive influence. However, take note that Terry is in my discard list.

 

I'd drop SWP now, nevermind in 4 years, I was just pointing out the fact. I'm not sure if we do have a "Raul", but if we do he needs dropping. I think you may be right Terry is the obvious candidate but I wouldn't put it past quite a few players to be disruptive.

[Roger Ritchie]

Adam Johnson could be well up there.

 

 

[rudemedic]

A World cup 2014 possible team:

 

****************HART****************

 

JOHNSON**CAHILL*****DAWSON****COLE

 

************HUDDLESTONE************

 

***LENNON****************MILNER*****

 

**************WILSHERE**************

 

*********ROONEY******AGBONLAHOR***

 

That plus the players Zorrro mentions, and one or two others (Dan Gosling and Adam Johnson for instance) shows that we have the nucleus of a reasonable squad in 4 years. Am I right in thinking Rooney is the captain?

[sjk2008]

That plus the players Zorrro mentions, and one or two others (Dan Gosling and Adam Johnson for instance) shows that we have the nucleus of a reasonable squad in 4 years. Am I right in thinking Rooney is the captain?

 

Maybe this then?

 

***************HART****************

 

*RICHARDS**JAGIELKA***CAHILL***COLE*

 

 

*************RODWELL***************

 

 

********MILNER*******WILSHERE*******

 

 

*WALCOTT*****************A. JOHNSON*

 

 

**************ROONEY****************

 

This team could has extreme potential, one of which i see apart from A. Hole seems to be made up of players who genuinely play for the love of the game and not for the publicity or money (Gerrard, Rio, Terry)

 

[sjk2008]

That plus the players Zorrro mentions, and one or two others (Dan Gosling and Adam Johnson for instance) shows that we have the nucleus of a reasonable squad in 4 years. Am I right in thinking Rooney is the captain?

 

And yes, Rooney followed by Jags as el capitano.

[Zorrro]

Maybe this then?

 

***************HART****************

 

*RICHARDS**JAGIELKA***CAHILL***COLE*

 

 

*************RODWELL***************

 

 

********MILNER*******WILSHERE*******

 

 

*WALCOTT*****************A. JOHNSON*

 

 

**************ROONEY****************

 

This team could has extreme potential, one of which i see apart from A. Hole seems to be made up of players who genuinely play for the love of the game and not for the publicity or money (Gerrard, Rio, Terry)

 

Looks alright to me. Get 'em in!

[BigfinLatic]

Looks alright to me. Get 'em in!

 

The only problem for me, is that it seems essentially you are playing 5 wingers infront of Rodwell (ok, you could argue against Milner...)

 

I'd be looking for someone like Delph, or Noble to step up. Delph potentially could become the other holding midfielder in the lovely 4-2-3-1 that has become so popular. Gosling is also potentially a good shout.

 

I also firmly believe that Connor Wickham will be quality from what I have seen of him... 6'4'' at 17, and already banging goals in. Virtualy won the U-18 european cup on his own allegedly... this kid could be the return of the proper English centre forward. If he comes off, I can see Rooney moving back to the heart of the supporting '3' - where he can be more involved in the game, and probably where his best position will be...

 

Also Kieran Gibbs will be a starter head of cashley... will be Arsenals first choice LB next year... and Englands in 4 years..

Edited July 6, 2010 by BigfinLatic

[Zorrro]

Wilshere's never a winger, you mentalist. The lack of sleep is clearly affecting your judgement.

 

(But good shout with Gibbs )

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Maybe this then?

 

***************HART****************

 

*RICHARDS**JAGIELKA***CAHILL***COLE*

 

 

*************RODWELL***************

 

 

********MILNER*******WILSHERE*******

 

 

*WALCOTT*****************A. JOHNSON*

 

 

**************ROONEY****************

 

This team could has extreme potential, one of which i see apart from A. Hole seems to be made up of players who genuinely play for the love of the game and not for the publicity or money (Gerrard, Rio, Terry)

 

Liking that team. Pace, nous and a left footer on the left wing. I might get rid of Cole though, and go for someone (anyone) who isn't constantly wondering where his next blow job is coming from. Someone who doesn't feel a sense of grievance if they're not surrounded by brain-dead dollys. We've got plenty to choose from and don't need to go back to the likes of Terry, Gerrard and Lampard, who had a go, but just were not good enough.