Ed Milibands Speech

[Lookers_Carl]

What I will say is there is no point in him coming out with policy right now... Its fruitless and pointless...

 

Anything good would just be stolen by the ConDems or balanced off with something... Making policy for three years time is so dangerous as you have no idea what situation we will be in come three years time. So anyone asking him for details right now is being totally unfair.

 

He has to sell himself and his general vision for the UK and keep well away from policy. The problem is, him and his vision ring alarm bells in me that he hasn't learnt from the last time Labour as sat in opposition in the 80s.

 

Thats pretty much what Cameron did, I don't think I actually heard anything at all on policy from him until Brown announced the general election.

 

I think that if Ed Miliband takes Labour to a general election and loses, then he will step down as leader, and in comes David. However, if he doesn't last until 2015, I can't see David Miliband running for the leadership unless he gets a good 2-3 years as leader of the opposition before the election.

 

EDIT: Just noticed this article too from 2 days ago Tories overtake Labour in comres opinion poll for first time since october 2010

 

Overall jist of the article is We are set for the worst set of strikes since the 1980's, the tory coalition government are cutting at a faster rate than thatcher, these cuts are hurting low income families and small businesses, Georgey boy still snuggled up to the bankers, yet more people according to that poll would rather see a Tory government than a Labour government.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Lookers_Carl

[leeslover]

We all knew that the tories would cut hard (well, increase spending less quickly). What they very sensibly didnt do was spell out the detail. What are the Eds going to do? They want to restore confidence after the economic mistakes - so do they support the cuts? The tories worked mostly on shedding the nasty image, i dont see how labour are going to reintent themselves economically by saying that everyone will be nicer under them.

[Monty Burns]

Cycles. This is how it works-

Labour come to power and run up massive debts, spend too much and arent generally very good at hiding the corruption, eventually the country wakes up and votes them out. So in come the tories who are proper stingey and kind of sort out the economy, and are quite good at hidng their corruption. eventually the country gets tired of the stingeyness and votes in labour cos things can only get betterTM and off we go again.

[Lookers_Carl]

Cycles. This is how it works-

Labour come to power and run up massive debts, spend too much and arent generally very good at hiding the corruption, eventually the country wakes up and votes them out. So in come the tories who are proper stingey and kind of sort out the economy, and are quite good at hidng their corruption. eventually the country gets tired of the stingeyness and votes in labour cos things can only get betterTM and off we go again.

 

Think thats actually pretty much spot on

[opinions4u]

Rank in order of popularity:

 

Estate agent

Banker

Journalist

Politician

[oafc0000]

We all knew that the tories would cut hard (well, increase spending less quickly). What they very sensibly didnt do was spell out the detail. What are the Eds going to do? They want to restore confidence after the economic mistakes - so do they support the cuts? The tories worked mostly on shedding the nasty image, i dont see how labour are going to reintent themselves economically by saying that everyone will be nicer under them.

 

The do support cutting... but say the cutting has been done too quickly. What the Tories would cut in five years they would cut over eight years. So you don't stifle growth.

 

There is now a growing consensus both in the City, Political Experts, Economic Experts that this is true and one way or the other the government will have to change direction slightly. Although for them to admit it would be suicidal so don't expect them to admit it out loud.

[leeslover]

Rank in order of popularity:

 

Estate agent

Banker

Journalist

Politician

Can we have traffic warden in there as well?

[beag_teeets]

Cycles. This is how it works-

Labour come to power and run up massive debts, spend too much and arent generally very good at hiding the corruption, eventually the country wakes up and votes them out. So in come the tories who are proper stingey and kind of sort out the economy, and are quite good at hidng their corruption. eventually the country gets tired of the stingeyness and votes in labour cos things can only get betterTM and off we go again.

 

 

It is a fallacy that the tories are good economically for example black Wednesday and the 2 recessions in the 90s. How much money was taken out of the pot when the North Sea gas contracts were sold chaeply and revenues were then used to fund tax cuts in the belief of trickle down economics? How much value was taken out during the privatisations of the 80s & 90s which has led to the crap service we get from utilities and transport.

 

Labour govts have made mistakes but to say that the tories are the party that sort the economy out is laughable.

[oafc0000]

It is a fallacy that the tories are good economically for example black Wednesday and the 2 recessions in the 90s. How much money was taken out of the pot when the North Sea gas contracts were sold chaeply and revenues were then used to fund tax cuts in the belief of trickle down economics? How much value was taken out during the privatisations of the 80s & 90s which has led to the crap service we get from utilities and transport.

 

Labour govts have made mistakes but to say that the tories are the party that sort the economy out is laughable.

 

You also have to factor in that borrowing only went nuts around 2008... Ignoring the previous 10 years of government is, lets say, convenient for the tories...

[beag_teeets]

You also have to factor in that borrowing only went nuts around 2008... Ignoring the previous 10 years of government is, lets say, convenient for the tories...

 

 

And that that borrowing had been borrowed against future revenue streams that only started to dry up once the global credit crunch hit. It could be argued that Labour's crystal ball should have predicted the credit crunch but at the same time Cameron was backing ever single aspect of Brown's economic policy. (Just going back to the crystal ball, regulation on the banks should have been tighter but if this had been done it would have to have been done globally or trades would have been done on foreign markets and not under the jurisdiction of any UK legislation.)

 

Cameron's response to the global credit crunch and banking crisis would have been different to Brown's, whilst several big US institutions did go belly up no British did. I had a mortgage at the time with Northern Rock, I would have loved them to go tits up, yay! free mortgage! But I doubt if letting UK banks going under would have done anyone any favours.

 

We are now lumbered with a massive deficit that the tories are paying off with massive cuts that are "too far, too fast" and are already having a poor effect on the UK economy even though most of the cuts haven't even hit yet! It is going to be pretty ugly once they do start to bite, as much as it will wreck this country I can not wait to see Osborne's hideous face when he is forced to announce some economic failure on a pavement somewhere with his advisers skulking behind him, just like Lamont had to with David Cameron skulking behind.....

 

Edited September 29, 2011 by beag_teeets

[oafc0000]

It is also a fact that Labours borrowing was lower against GDP than under the Tories before the global crash...

 

People also forget the reasons who so much money had to be spent on public services... People sat on waiting lists for 18 months and dying before they could get treatment... One small example..

[beag_teeets]

It is also a fact that Labours borrowing was lower against GDP than under the Tories before the global crash...

 

People also forget the reasons who so much money had to be spent on public services... People sat on waiting lists for 18 months and dying before they could get treatment... One small example..

 

 

Nah, it's all those "non jobs" in the public sector being given £50,000 a year to push pens and feast on the hog of ALL MY TAX MONEY!!!.....

[leeslover]

I agree with BT.

[beag_teeets]

Interesting take on Ed's speech from the Telegraph's Peter Oborne:

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100108299/labour-party-conference-like-it-or-not-ed-miliband-has-redefined-the-future-of-politics/

 

I like the bit:

 

"For many years – and particularly during the long and now widely exposed Murdoch ascendancy – political reporting has suffered from a shameful defect. Lobby correspondents have regarded themselves as courtiers, aligning themselves with the gang in power rather than searching out the underlying truths. Hence so much of the foolish sneering and mockery of Miliband’s personal appearance, mannerisms and method of speaking."

 

And:

 

The Left, led by the brilliant Michael Foot (it is only because he ultimately failed that he has been written off as a useless eccentric: history is always on the side of the winners), argued very powerfully that the failure of the Attlee settlement showed that the time had come for a move towards thoroughgoing socialism.

 

Amazing to think this is from someone who is diametrically opposed to everything Foot stood for!

 

I really do wish more journalists were like Oborne, rather than just :censored:ting out the first populist thing that comes into their heads. It has been one of the many failings of our time the way that many in the media became lapdogs of the establishment, not wanting to bite the hand that fed them. Likewise, the establishment withdrawing access to those who wrote or reported unfavourable things.

[leeslover]

Interesting take on Ed's speech from the Telegraph's Peter Oborne:

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100108299/labour-party-conference-like-it-or-not-ed-miliband-has-redefined-the-future-of-politics/

 

I like the bit:

 

 

 

And:

 

 

 

Amazing to think this is from someone who is diametrically opposed to everything Foot stood for!

 

I really do wish more journalists were like Oborne, rather than just :censored:ting out the first populist thing that comes into their heads. It has been one of the many failings of our time the way that many in the media became lapdogs of the establishment, not wanting to bite the hand that fed them. Likewise, the establishment withdrawing access to those who wrote or reported unfavourable things.

Did you see Oborne on Newsnight on Wednesday? He kept referring to some EU Commission lackey as, "the idiot from Brussels," until he stormed off. Going off that and his Question Time last night I suspect that he enjoys a glass of claret in the evening... He is good value though and doesn't toe a party line.

[oafc0000]

I saw him on Newsnight... His tone was disgraceful to be frank... To call someone an idiot before you let them speak is to be frank disgusting... I don't respect him...

[beag_teeets]

I tuned in just to see him call him "idiot" and Paxo say that he had left the video link.

 

You don't get more euro-sceptic than Oborne and it could be argued that he was right to vigorously oppose us joining the euro. He did a good Dispatches programme on phone hacking in October last year, here's a crap review - http://www.metro.co.uk/tv/reviews/842980-dispatches-tabloids-tories-and-telephone-hacking-was-a-good-call

 

I disagree with him on many things but also agree with him on many things, he did a fantastic piece on the riots too.

[Monty Burns]

 

 

to say that the tories are the party that sort the economy out is laughable.

 

I didnt go that far mate.