lancy lad Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Does anyone know? I thought Barry was supposed to be the "fans voice" as a director, but we very rarely hear anything and when you ask questions he just disappear's. I think we need to be kept in the loop when there are potential buyer's who could take us to another town or we could be the next Wimbledon FC. I would much rather have somebody who is interested in keeping us up to date with matter's and it has made me wonder how we go about voting a reprasentative to the board? Sorry if this has been asked before, but I don't ever remember having a say in who our reprasentative is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 The place on the board goes to the Chairman of the Trust, as they were the ones who bought the 3% stake. He was voted into the position of Chairman of the Trust by its members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 The place on the board goes to the Chairman of the Trust, as they were the ones who bought the 3% stake. He was voted into the position of Chairman of the Trust by its members. Thanks Zorrro. Any idea how long his stint is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) No he wasn't voted by the Trust's members, he was voted by the Trust Directorship, that has changed significantly since 2003 and was re-elected a few years later, I think mainly because there was no real way of challenging him unless you were indeed a Trust Director. However, I do not feel the Trust is fit for purpose - people have said well join the Trust, but how can you join an Organisation you do not believe in? Simon has invited me in for a chat in the next couple of weeks once he's back from New York, if any sort of representation was outside of the umbrella of the Trust, then I'd seriously consider giving us a proper voice. Of course I can be overly emotional at times, but I have had a few constructive chats with Simon over the last few months, whilst I feel he doesn't particularly like me or much of what I have to say, he does respect the fact I am blue through and through and unlike many, I don't snipe from afar I have sought him out and aired my grievances and asked my questions. I haven't always like the answers but I do appreciate how forthright he can be. As much as I can be emotional I also capable of listening to both sides of an issue, at the end of the day we are all Latics fans and we all want what is best for the club, if that means we can improve communications between the club and the fans and on a much more regular basis then so be it. You won't find me hob-knobbing in board rooms on match-day, I'll be in the stands with my fellow fans freezing my nuts off cheering the lads on and after the game I'll be sharing a pint with my mates and moaning like hell at how bad we are. If people were to support for a change or another voice in representing the fans, I'm sure Simon would be open to someone like myself getting more involved. It will not be via the Trust though, it's up you, I think we can make this happen.... Edited July 7, 2013 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) BTW this is nothing personal against Barry, He's served the club very well but I now believe he should concentrate on what is now his primary role, as a Director of Oldham Athletic. However, I do believe we need someone who is more visible, vocal and more accessible as Fans' Rep if the club are willing to allow that. We should at the very least be looking at reforming an effective Supporters Association.... Edited July 7, 2013 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 http://www.trustoldham.co.uk/pages/about-us/note-on-elections-to-the-board.aspx ONLY the members of the trust board can vote for the Chairman. But the second to bottom point on the link above means that essentially the Chairman (i.e. Barry) has a significant control over who joins the board and he can veto people to prevent them from joining the board. So unsurprisingly the majority of the board are happy for Barry to remain as chairman as he is their mate. IIRC Hidden amongst the threads on this topic from the past is a quote from WardleLatic aka Rick Attwood, who has a board role in the trust, that essentially said that the then trust board (and presumably the current one due to the election process) feel Barry is the ONLY person capable of chairing the trust and therefore having the seat on the club's board. IIRC this was because he had developed a strong working relationship and rapport with SC, which in some ways is the antithesis of what he should be doing as the "Fans' Representative on the Club's Board". IIRC there is probably a trust AGM coming up, due to the time gap since the last one, where Barry's position as Trust Chairman is up for re-election. If it has happened recently, it kind of shows just how democratic the process is really, as it wasn't exactly well publicised, otherwise the OP wouldn't have posted his OP. http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=30653 http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=30098 Reading those two might help as well but its not as easy as it was at the time they were posted due to a formatting change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Would you listen to the fans requests, Paul... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I'd answer any complaints, queries or questions yes - as long as the club were willing to give me an answer. Then report back in due course.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 There was talk about a rebirth of The Trust a few weeks back. Any news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I'd answer any complaints, queries or questions yes - as long as the club were willing to give me an answer. Then report back in due course.... If you were a board member you wouldn't need the club to give you an answer, you'd have full access to all details about the club. So, based on that, would you answer any question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Without defending or criticising the status quo, I think there are a few important points that some are missing on here as I don't think the current role is as clear cut as 'listening to fans requests'. 1) There is a difference between having 'a fans representative' and 'a fans representative on the board of Oldham Athletic (2004) Association Football Club. 2) A 'fans rep' only has the fans interest to look after. Anybody on the board of directors, fans rep or not, needs to make decisions that are in the best interests of Oldham Athletic (2004) Association Football Club. Hence a 'fans rep' on the board of directors has two sets of interests to consider. 3) Sometimes these interest may conflict with each other. There may come a scenario where what the fans want, and what is best for the club long term, are two completely different paths to choose. In this scenario, bearing in mind the first two points, would fans want a fans representative that argue for what the fans want (despite this being not in the best interests of the club long term), or do what is in the best interest for the club, going against what the fans want whilst trying to get them the best deal possible. You go with the first and it goes wrong then you have to deal with accusations that you have been just a nodding dog to the fans and lack foresight and bottle to do the right thing. you do the latter, regardless of whether this may be in the best interest of the club and trying to get the best deal out of it for the fans, you get accused of being a nodding dog to the club and not listening. So I would leave a few questions to dwell on bearing this in mind. - Do people think having a 'fans representative on the board' would represent a conflict of interest? - Would it be better to have a 'fans representative' who was not a director of Oldham Athletic (2004) Association Football Club? - Assuming the status quo is kept, would you want a fans representative on the board (either Barry or whoever succeeds him when Barry decided enough is enough) someone who simply bows to fan pressure, or someone who has the shoulders to go against the grain if it is in the best interests of Oldham Athletic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I'd answer any complaints, queries or questions yes - as long as the club were willing to give me an answer. Then report back in due course.... In that case, where is Super Seans somersault against Burnley.... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Where? Fairly sure it was on Mingebook somewhere. Talking about free membership to all who wanted it, new constitution etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 No he wasn't voted by the Trust's members, he was voted by the Trust Directorship, that has changed significantly since 2003 and was re-elected a few years later, I think mainly because there was no real way of challenging him unless you were indeed a Trust Director. However, I do not feel the Trust is fit for purpose - people have said well join the Trust, but how can you join an Organisation you do not believe in? Simon has invited me in for a chat in the next couple of weeks once he's back from New York, if any sort of representation was outside of the umbrella of the Trust, then I'd seriously consider giving us a proper voice. Of course I can be overly emotional at times, but I have had a few constructive chats with Simon over the last few months, whilst I feel he doesn't particularly like me or much of what I have to say, he does respect the fact I am blue through and through and unlike many, I don't snipe from afar I have sought him out and aired my grievances and asked my questions. I haven't always like the answers but I do appreciate how forthright he can be. As much as I can be emotional I also capable of listening to both sides of an issue, at the end of the day we are all Latics fans and we all want what is best for the club, if that means we can improve communications between the club and the fans and on a much more regular basis then so be it. You won't find me hob-knobbing in board rooms on match-day, I'll be in the stands with my fellow fans freezing my nuts off cheering the lads on and after the game I'll be sharing a pint with my mates and moaning like hell at how bad we are. If people were to support for a change or another voice in representing the fans, I'm sure Simon would be open to someone like myself getting more involved. It will not be via the Trust though, it's up you, I think we can make this happen.... That is exactly what I wanted Prozac. Thanks for your answer. While I also have nothing against Barry, I feel that his continued silence makes his role very redundant (he is there as a voice of the fans, yet his communication is pathetic). I think you would be the perfect candidate to be the voice of the fans and nobody could ever doubt your passion for Latics! So, how do we go about asking for your representation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) - Do people think having a 'fans representative on the board' would represent a conflict of interest? - Would it be better to have a 'fans representative' who was not a director of Oldham Athletic (2004) Association Football Club? - Assuming the status quo is kept, would you want a fans representative on the board (either Barry or whoever succeeds him when Barry decided enough is enough) someone who simply bows to fan pressure, or someone who has the shoulders to go against the grain if it is in the best interests of Oldham Athletic? All very good points, however what I was looking for with the thread is, if SC can tell Prozac what has been going on, then why has Bazza been keeping it all to himself? You don't have to search OWTB with a fine tooth comb to realise, it is full of unanswered questions by Barry and I feel that he is no longer offering enough for the "fans voice". Edited July 7, 2013 by rummytheowl Quote formatting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 A fans rep or voice of the fans is such a difficult position to fill though... Every fan is different, feels different things and views all things Latics differently. It's no slight on Barry, or on Prozac in trying to get himself this role, but neither speak for me. No-one would do; other than me. Short of having 3/4 thousand fan reps; you're never going to fill the role correctly. All we need IMO is better communication from the club. And they can easily do that internally with miminal fuss. Whether they will do is another matter though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 A fans rep or voice of the fans is such a difficult position to fill though... Every fan is different, feels different things and views all things Latics differently. It's no slight on Barry, or on Prozac in trying to get himself this role, but neither speak for me. No-one would do; other than me. Short of having 3/4 thousand fan reps; you're never going to fill the role correctly. All we need IMO is better communication from the club. And they can easily do that internally with miminal fuss. Whether they will do is another matter though I understand what you are saying sly, but it isn't just about posing questions on behalf of people, its about offering some sort of communication, which I don't think Barry is currently offering. If SC can just come out and give prozac the info, why is Barry not doing that first? We need somebody with the balls to discuss matters and then let us know what is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I agree with Sly. You also have to remember that once somebody is on the Board of a limited company a director cannot say what they want to in public. There are issues of commercial confidentiality, confidential matters relating to individuals' terms and conditions, etc I think Barry is constrained by some of this even though communications, and the frequency of them, could be significantly improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Without defending or criticising the status quo, I think there are a few important points that some are missing on here as I don't think the current role is as clear cut as 'listening to fans requests'. 1) There is a difference between having 'a fans representative' and 'a fans representative on the board of Oldham Athletic (2004) Association Football Club. 2) A 'fans rep' only has the fans interest to look after. Anybody on the board of directors, fans rep or not, needs to make decisions that are in the best interests of Oldham Athletic (2004) Association Football Club. Hence a 'fans rep' on the board of directors has two sets of interests to consider. 3) Sometimes these interest may conflict with each other. There may come a scenario where what the fans want, and what is best for the club long term, are two completely different paths to choose. In this scenario, bearing in mind the first two points, would fans want a fans representative that argue for what the fans want (despite this being not in the best interests of the club long term), or do what is in the best interest for the club, going against what the fans want whilst trying to get them the best deal possible. You go with the first and it goes wrong then you have to deal with accusations that you have been just a nodding dog to the fans and lack foresight and bottle to do the right thing. you do the latter, regardless of whether this may be in the best interest of the club and trying to get the best deal out of it for the fans, you get accused of being a nodding dog to the club and not listening. So I would leave a few questions to dwell on bearing this in mind. - Do people think having a 'fans representative on the board' would represent a conflict of interest? - Would it be better to have a 'fans representative' who was not a director of Oldham Athletic (2004) Association Football Club? - Assuming the status quo is kept, would you want a fans representative on the board (either Barry or whoever succeeds him when Barry decided enough is enough) someone who simply bows to fan pressure, or someone who has the shoulders to go against the grain if it is in the best interests of Oldham Athletic? 1.) The point in bold is very worrying for me. Essentially it seems to be you saying that Barry is the trust chairman until he decides to step down and there is no hope of anyone else getting that position until then, that sounds worryingly like a dictatorship for a process that is supposed to be democratic. 2.) A fans' representative should always have the club's best interest to heart because the fans deep down always have the best interests of the club to heart. If the fans want something but the fans' representative on the board (FROB) doesn't think it is in the best interests of the club they should know how to communicate that to the rest of the fans. As presumably the FROB is in knowledge of additional crucial information that isn't known by the majority of fans and that information accounts for the difference of opinion. If it is just the view of the FROB that it is better for the club without any evidence, then perhaps the FROB should be mature enough to vote with the majority of the fans. 3.) Barry has in past admitted that he only puts across his view as to what the fans want. Whilst I'm not overly concerned about that (see above as I believe Barry does do what HE believes to be in the best interests of the club), perhaps a process which would in turn make the election of the FROB to be more democratic, (see my other post above) would make it possible for Barry to put across a majority view every time. Also see Sly's post #17 4.) There is definitely a view from some (see Lancy's post #16) and I include myself in that is that Barry only answers the questions he wants to and ignores any follow up responses when he questions others. This is compounded by the impression that although we have an Official Fans Liaison at the club, she is too busy with her F/T role to do much with it and it seems like it is fulfilling a tick box exercise. Perhaps it would be better to have a fully democratic process with all the fans voting to organise a committee of Fans Liaisons and have a member of that committee on call for EVERY game to help to facilitate the solving of any at game issues, like hundreds of our fans getting locked out at Bury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I'd be interested to know how many other clubs' fans know the daily machinations of their team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) 1.) The point in bold is very worrying for me. Essentially it seems to be you saying that Barry is the trust chairman until he decides to step down and there is no hope of anyone else getting that position until then, that sounds worryingly like a dictatorship for a process that is supposed to be democratic. 2.) A fans' representative should always have the club's best interest to heart because the fans deep down always have the best interests of the club to heart. If the fans want something but the fans' representative on the board (FROB) doesn't think it is in the best interests of the club they should know how to communicate that to the rest of the fans. As presumably the FROB is in knowledge of additional crucial information that isn't known by the majority of fans and that information accounts for the difference of opinion. If it is just the view of the FROB that it is better for the club without any evidence, then perhaps the FROB should be mature enough to vote with the majority of the fans. 3.) Barry has in past admitted that he only puts across his view as to what the fans want. Whilst I'm not overly concerned about that (see above as I believe Barry does do what HE believes to be in the best interests of the club), perhaps a process which would in turn make the election of the FROB to be more democratic, (see my other post above) would make it possible for Barry to put across a majority view every time. Also see Sly's post #17 4.) There is definitely a view from some (see Lancy's post #16) and I include myself in that is that Barry only answers the questions he wants to and ignores any follow up responses when he questions others. This is compounded by the impression that although we have an Official Fans Liaison at the club, she is too busy with her F/T role to do much with it and it seems like it is fulfilling a tick box exercise. Perhaps it would be better to have a fully democratic process with all the fans voting to organise a committee of Fans Liaisons and have a member of that committee on call for EVERY game to help to facilitate the solving of any at game issues, like hundreds of our fans getting locked out at Bury. Aside from the first point which I did not mean to imply that (should have added or in the event that somebody else is elected to the role) all very good points. But as far as I know, there is nobody on the horizon who is willing to stand for election at present. But my post was not referring to Barry, it was referring to the role itself of being a fans representative sitting on a board of directors, the conflict of interests that can arise from this, and that this role as it stands is not just as straight forward as fighting for what the fans want. Edited July 7, 2013 by Lookers_Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) I'd be interested to know how many other clubs' fans know the daily machinations of their team. You need to look closer to home. A supporter's trust is about communication (which we are not currently receiving from the correct source), this was taken from the Crystal Palace Supporter's Trust............ In summary, the five objects of the Trust are: (i) to develop and strengthen the bonds between Crystal Palace Football Club and the local community; (ii) to promote the constructive involvement of supporters in the running and direction of the Club; (iii) to benefit present and future members of the community by promoting, encouraging and furthering the game of football; (iv) to assist CPFC in any way agreed by Trust membership, including financially, in kind, and in developing partnerships to further the interests of CPFC; (v) to maintain membership of Supporters Direct and develop links with the supporters of other clubs. Edited July 7, 2013 by lancy lad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ33 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) I'd be interested to know how many other clubs' fans know the daily machinations of their team. Me too, all to often on this site i read why are we not being told, whether it be about new manager, new stand, or takeovers. im sure other clubs dont have a monthly briefing from the board, why do we feel that we should. chris moore, whist a tw8t, never spoke to us, neither did stott, why should corney be different? We have far more communication than most Edited July 7, 2013 by NJ33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 You need to look closer to home. A supporter's trust is about communication (which we are not currently receiving from the correct source), this was taken from the Crystal Palace Supporter's Trust............ In summary, the five objects of the Trust are: (i) to develop and strengthen the bonds between Crystal Palace Football Club and the local community; (ii) to promote the constructive involvement of supporters in the running and direction of the Club; (iii) to benefit present and future members of the community by promoting, encouraging and furthering the game of football; (iv) to assist CPFC in any way agreed by Trust membership, including financially, in kind, and in developing partnerships to further the interests of CPFC; (v) to maintain membership of Supporters Direct and develop links with the supporters of other clubs. So, what actual information and communication has resulted from those objectives? Objectives mean nothing unless their fulfilment can be demonstrated. You haven't really provided anything more than an aspirational statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.