rudemedic Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Aside from the first point which I did not mean to imply that (should have added or in the event that somebody else is elected to the role) all very good points. But as far as I know, there is nobody on the horizon who is willing to stand for election at present. But my post was not referring to Barry, it was referring to the role itself of being a fans representative sitting on a board of directors, the conflict of interests that can arise from this, and that this role as it stands is not just as straight forward as fighting for what the fans want. Indeed I wondered if you hadn't spotted that someone would take the bit I bolded the way I did and it was a genuine error. The conflict of interests is something that is going to complicate things. Especially as the discussion has mainly focused on the difference between a fans' rep and a fans' rep on the board. This doesn't really consider the potential conflicts between the trust and the fans +/- the club. In my view I think this is where Barry has struggled somewhat. It's not helped by the official supporters liaison being a club employee in another role too. Appointing someone less connected to the club to that role might improve the whole situation. But there is not really the budget for someone to be the F/T official supporters liaison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I'm not interested in Trust Politics what do the Trust stand far? What questions have they asked when fans have raised concerns? How do they allay fans concerns? How after do they publicly teport back to fans? hiw often is a newslette, email update? even the meetings are only partially open to ALL the second hour is a closed shop. I went to a few meetings when it as first formed back in 2003/04 and from the off Barry as Chairman dominated proceedings, it simply wasn't for me. I cannot join an organisation I do not believe works. Any fans rep is there first and foremost to represent the fans not a trust or the club. The fans voice has to be heard no matter how uncomfortable that makes one or two feel. I agree EVERYTHING cannot be in the public domain but there's more leaks in the club than Eliza's bucket, if some information was made more accessible I think many of the scare stories that arise will be properly challenged and dealt with. How have they brought us together by making the trust a more open organisation with one member one vote? Why should only Trust Directors be able to vote on who represents the whole of Oldham Athletic's fanbase? Any future fans rep will represent all Latics fans, after all aren't the trust members Latics fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 It's the conflict of interests that is the biggest issue and why a fans rep had to be independent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 And real it was Simon himself suggesting I get more involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 ....any form I representation I seek will not serve any organisation except the fans of Oldham Athletic - there's too many factions as it as. Any rep should represent the fans first, second and third.... Thus creating a new faction. What other factions? It's not :censored:ing historical Judea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) Thus creating a new faction. What other factions? It's not :censored:ing historical Judea. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dgb_qHP7VaZE Edited July 7, 2013 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) I'm not interested in Trust Politics what do the Trust stand far? What questions have they asked when fans have raised concerns? How do they allay fans concerns? How after do they publicly teport back to fans? hiw often is a newslette, email update? even the meetings are only partially open to ALL the second hour is a closed shop. I went to a few meetings when it as first formed back in 2003/04 and from the off Barry as Chairman dominated proceedings, it simply wasn't for me. I cannot join an organisation I do not believe works. Any fans rep is there first and foremost to represent the fans not a trust or the club. The fans voice has to be heard no matter how uncomfortable that makes one or two feel. I agree EVERYTHING cannot be in the public domain but there's more leaks in the club than Eliza's bucket, if some information was made more accessible I think many of the scare stories that arise will be properly challenged and dealt with. How have they brought us together by making the trust a more open organisation with one member one vote? Why should only Trust Directors be able to vote on who represents the whole of Oldham Athletic's fanbase? Any future fans rep will represent all Latics fans, after all aren't the trust members Latics fans? So, if I feel that you don't operate in a way that I can agree with, and do not represent my views in the way I expect, I should set up another "fans rep" role too? Let's be clear here, you will represent the fans views in the way YOU think it should be done. And part of that already involves ignoring an element of the fans current form of representation as you, without attending any recent meetings (in the last 8 years by your statement), have decided that it does not, and can never operate in the way that YOU want it to. Your ability to form an opinion on an organisation that has existed to represent latics fans for about 10 years, no matter how poorly it may do so, without you attending a meeting or giving that organisation any opportunity to demonstrate what it does for 8 years, suggests to me that you don't posses any real ability to form reasoned judgements. But hey, one conversation with SC and you're the messiah. Edited July 7, 2013 by real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 So you are going to deliberately ignore the views that are raised through the trust despite it being an organisation for latics supporters? Seems an odd way to start a campaign. You're going to stand for a post that doesn't exist, on a non-existent platform, with no clear objectives or responsibilities and with no more access to information than anyone else who speaks to simon corney? This makes me realise that it is a no win situation, whilst Barry has not endeared himself to a number of posters on here (I do believe he should answer any questions asked on here even it is only to say F off politely) who needs the :censored: that is obviously going to come your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I can see merit in somebody like Prozac representing fans' views and acting as a conduit between fans and the club. Perhaps it wouldn't be needed if the Trust was more effective. Quite how it's set up and achieved I'm not sure. But there is mileage in flagging up ideas and concerns and working through them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Why don't you put yourself forward Real? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Can you tell me some more about simon colebrook? http://www.trustoldham.co.uk/pages/the-team/simon-colebrook.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Why don't you put yourself forward Real? Steady on its easier to give someone else a load of :censored: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 If taking fellows fans' concerns to the heart of the club and reporting back to those same fans is a self serving agenda then i'm guilty as charged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I vote for Derek Wilson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 If taking fellows fans' concerns to the heart of the club and reporting back to those same fans is a self serving agenda then i'm guilty as charged This isn't criticism but if you are going to put yourself forward I'd suggest your real name would be helpful. Obviously plenty of people on here know you - but not everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) Why don't you put yourself forward Real? How to join; http://www.trustoldham.co.uk/pages/joining-trust-oldham/joiningtrustoldham.aspx Constitution; http://www.trustoldham.co.uk/pages/about-us/constitution-and-aims.aspx Edited July 7, 2013 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I can see merit in somebody like Prozac representing fans' views and acting as a conduit between fans and the club. Perhaps it wouldn't be needed if the Trust was more effective. Quite how it's set up and achieved I'm not sure. But there is mileage in flagging up ideas and concerns and working through them. I don't. It's adding an extra level to something it doesn't really need because it actually operates now, badly. The who thing sounds like it's just something less :censored: than the processes that currently exist. The Trust have everything in place, and all the experience, and they do inform the supporters what it's actually doing albeit with varying amounts of success and much irregularity. Hey, Barry might actually be doing everything he can, if that's the case then telling the fans what it can and can not do might help. A review and of the constitution and clarification of the role of the Trust could be all that is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 We can leave things as they are with the majority of fans feeling like they have no voice and their concerns are not taken seriously whilst the club becomes more detached or we can ask, demand or campaign for change. I've simply suggested I would be willing to press for a more transparent relationship between the club and the fans. If others want to put themselves forward that's fine by me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Okay, we'll agree to disagree on this one. I don't believe the owner SHOULD be telling us all. By extension I don't think Barry should either. Nor do I. However, I do believe that the figurehead of a Supporters' Trust should keep the people he represents updated, on a fairly regular basis, as to how he is doing just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) I think it's fair to say that the Trust isn't operating in the manner expected, or achieving the initial objectives set out, as John and I imagined when we set it up all those years ago. I have sympathy with those who are anti-Barry, and I suspect others may have played it differently - Barry has done things his way and we are where we are. In my view, those who desire things to change should do so by getting involved and changing it from the inside. Anyone can stand for directorship, and it'd only take a couple of new directors with common goals to start making a real difference. Prozac's assertion that he can't join an organisation he doesn't agree with doesn't wash with me - it's a democratic body which represents all fans, whether they like the Trust or not. If you don't like how it's working, step up and make things better. Reminds me of colonel jessop's rant: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honour, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to. Edited July 7, 2013 by oafcmetty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 We've asked for that for a few years Rummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Why don't you put yourself forward Real? I see you've fallen at the first hurdle in the how to join the fans under one banner stakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Why don't you put yourself forward Real? 1. don't want to commit the time 2. don't think it'll achieve anything Steady on its easier to give someone else a load of :censored: Where have I given anyone :censored:? I've asked questions - none have involved any sort of accusation, in fact the ":censored:" I have given is nothing comparted to the ":censored:" thrown at barry. Aren't people allowed to ask questions? http://www.trustoldham.co.uk/pages/the-team/simon-colebrook.aspx And what is there on that resume that makes him emminently suitable to be chairman of the trust in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithybridgeblue Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 After the length of time on "The Board" that Barry has had, you cease to become The Voice of the fans and more a Spokesman to the Fans. Never been an Ultra myself, but was never quite comfortable that a retired Police Officer would be the best Fans' Representative. If the Trust Rep is to mean anything, they should change every couple of years. To be fair, I also think Corney communicates better with fans than Barry ever could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I vote for Derek Wilson... I vote for Senor Coconut, I want a 20.000 capacity stadium in line with an ambitious club Also RoyleArmy as transfer market spokesman.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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