Guest sheridans_world Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Tom Bombadil is one of the most pointless literary creations ever.... it was a masterstroke to get rid of such apointless waste of about 200 pages... another pice of Tolkien over indulgence.... Why do you think the Tolkien family were always so reluctant for a film to be made??? Beacuse it would eventually show what a fraud the books are.... from a literary persective, they could be some of the worst that were ever written... why they took off was students dicovering the hidden laguage and messages of elvish... not the pathetic casing of text that surrounds this... Booo Hiss Booo it was about 65 pages, not 200. Tom Bombadil is what made LOTR what it is. The side plots and side characters are what made the books so magical and brilliant. The films are good, i will admit. But the books are a masterclass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 That was the first thing i noticed, i accidentally blurted it out during the film at the cinema too. 'where's Tom Bombadil?' I know they cant make the films too long, but i think they missed quite a few things out that should have been in, not just with LOTR but also with HP Tom Bombadill is one bit I didn't miss. What puzzled me was that if they wanted to have a prominent female character why they didn't make more use of the the horsey chick, who features prominently in the real story, rather than Tyler. They really shouldn't have cut the Scouring of the Shire at the end either, it really took the point away IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Booo Hiss Booo it was about 65 pages, not 200. Tom Bombadil is what made LOTR what it is. The side plots and side characters are what made the books so magical and brilliant. The films are good, i will admit. But the books are a masterclass. Please define it what way these collections of ramblings can in any way be a masterclass??? They are some of the most rediculed stories from a technical standpoint to ever be created - almost that bad they are a joke (and frequently argued the Tolkien intended them to be...) A masterclass in lingusitcs yes, a farce of an attempt to write a book.... you cannot enjoy these stories, they are not meant to be enjoyed... For me, a book needs to be readable - the basis of any masterpiece.... otherwise you are arguing on the basis on linguistics, and surely that is not where this thread is heading.... as that is not about enjoyment.... I cannot belive you read these books as an attempt to uncover a new language, and that is why you think they are a masterpiece? You cannot enjoy these books - fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrabanana Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Tom Bombadill is one bit I didn't miss. What puzzled me was that if they wanted to have a prominent female character why they didn't make more use of the the horsey chick, who features prominently in the real story, rather than Tyler. They really shouldn't have cut the Scouring of the Shire at the end either, it really took the point away IMO. Yeah that's actually something that really confused me as well. Like in the film it was just an endless amount of happy moments and different endings when it should have been the Scouring of the Shire. Atleast the filmmaker stayed sort of true to the book by having Wormtongue killing Saruman but if I remember rightly, Wormtongue slit his throat rather than stabbed him but I shouldn't really be too picky about the details Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Would I be correct to assume that the cack-spelling English graduate is on a windup mission here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Would I be correct to assume that the cack-spelling English graduate is on a windup mission here? Whether he is or not, he's molesting my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I saw the first film and loved it, so decided to buy to box-set of the books. Then spent 6 months torturing myself to try and read the first book. Seriously, what a bag-o-bobbins. I got 2 thirds of the way through, and they have sat on my shelf ever since. I won't ever pick them up again. The films were awsome, and, as BFL says, Jackson's skill (poor guy must have had to read all the books with a fine-tooth comb) was obvious for all to see - turning 3 dull books (with great stories but a horrendous, tortutrous way of getting to the point...or not) into 3 fantastic films - genius! I have 4 of the Harry Potter books, and may read them, as I expect I may actually be able to understand them. The films are good. I blame Wilson for making me watch them all - I resisted for as long as I could (something about me being contrary and not wanting to get caught up in the mass hysteria about a children's book). He's even roped me into going to see the new one at the cinema with him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 (edited) ...I resisted for as long as I could (something about me being contrary and not wanting to get caught up in the mass hysteria about a children's book)... I've tried to stay out of this one, but I can't. Lord of the Rings is rubbish: anyone who fails to realise that is an eejit. Lees has been reading that drivel since he was a child, and he won't be told how actually rubbish it is. I don't mind children reading it, but grown-ups really ought to know better. The same goes for Harry Bloody Potter. Do yourself a favour, Maddog, and burn them there books, or take them to Oxfam. I could be wrong about Harry Potter, of course. In fact, my needs are the same as the nation's. What I need is to sit down for six weeks to read about the trials and tribulations of kids who go to an exclusive school, as related by a school-marmy do-gooding zillionaire. I need to know that, by means of a clever plot device, anyone who does not go to such a school is a bit crap, and that I should yield to their de facto superiority. When I've finished reading, I could go and watch (for how many hours?) people who used to go to such exclusive schools act out the scenes. A more realistic portrayal of life in exclusive schools would involve soggy buscuits, fagging, and sodomy. Where are they in Harry Potter? Where? It's hard to know what's in worse taste: Harry Potter or the nation's infatuation. The whole thing is totally corrupt, it stinks, and it's ugly. And as for all that dungeons and dragons baloney in Lord of the Frigging Rings... If Tolkein weren't such a blatant fraud, he would have written something decent about modernity and the yearning for an England that never existed. Instead, you get some dork wanting to find some pointless symbolic object, having to talk to some other dorks and pricks along the way. Big deal. Fake fake fake. Here's ten absolutely cracking books for grown ups, if read books ye must: 1. Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut 2. Anna Karenina by Tolstoy 3. White Noise by Don DeLillo 4. Bleak House by Charles Dickens 5. Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert 6. Lolita by Vladimir Navokov 7. For Esme - with love and squalor by JD Salinger 8. Money by Martin Amis 9. One day in the life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexandr Solzenhitsyn 10. Crash by JG Ballard There is absolutely no need for grown-ups to read children's books or to watch children's films. It drives me fully bananas. Edited July 16, 2007 by 24hoursfromtulsehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I've ...... nas You are actually living in your own world arnt you! Either that or you refuse to conform to the normal socially acceptable practices and rebel at every possible chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 (edited) You are actually living in your own world arnt you! Either that or you refuse to conform to the normal socially acceptable practices and rebel at every possible chance. I am under a lot of pressure. You would not seriously defend reading children's books though, would you? What about kids TV? Should we all watch that, too? I watched lord of the rings once and it was torture. I'm glad they left the scouring of the shires out, but why couldn't they leave the rest out, too. Why couldn't we have sat and watched the test card for the best part of a day? I was so horrified by that film that I wanted to smash lees' television in with a big stick. They might have left the scouring of the shires out, but when the credits rolled, I swear to god that I felt so bad that I was () that far away from riot and revolution, and the pursuit of death on some unbelievable scale. I know what you Tolkein and Potter fans are really about. You spent god-knows-how-much cash on the fad, and you can't bring yourselves to admit that it was a load of old pony. It's alright: everyone's wasted time and money at some point, so you can all come out now and admit that that's what happened. You don't have to pretend any more, just come out and hold your hands up and say "I wuz robbed". No one will blame you. It's okay. Edited July 16, 2007 by 24hoursfromtulsehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 (edited) Soooooo wrong. The LOTRs films are total cack compared to the books. They could have actually told the story properly in the final one if they'd cut out an hour and a half of hobbit homo-eroticism between Sam and Frodo. And as for inventing a much bigger part for Arwen just because they'd paid Liv Tyler bucketloads to play her.... I am very disappointed that you seem to have found new lotr "friends". I thought that you would be on the verge of dropping it, but that's obviously not the case. One mere mention of dorks and you're off again! Honestly, Andrew: people were impressed that you were a dorks and pricks and baloney fan in primary school; after all, who doesn't warm instantly and permanently to a child prodigy? Those glory days were 25 years ago. Please let it drop now. There's no need... Edited July 16, 2007 by 24hoursfromtulsehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I am very disappointed that you seem to have found new lotr "friends". I thought that you would be on the verge of dropping it, but that's obviously not the case. One mere mention of dorks and you're off again! Honestly, Andrew: people were impressed that you were a dorks and pricks and baloney fan in primary school; after all, who doesn't warm instantly and permanently to a child prodigy? Those glory days were 25 years ago. Please let it drop now. There's no need... Hark at him, going on like he's some sort of English student... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I am very disappointed that you seem to have found new lotr "friends". I thought that you would be on the verge of dropping it, but that's obviously not the case. One mere mention of dorks and you're off again! Honestly, Andrew: people were impressed that you were a dorks and pricks and baloney fan in primary school; after all, who doesn't warm instantly and permanently to a child prodigy? Those glory days were 25 years ago. Please let it drop now. There's no need... Oh dear... a nerve seems to have been touched as always happens when you bring up LOTR - Lees, in answer to your question of if this is a wind up from me... slightly, my opinions are being slightly exaggerated for the purpose of the arguement... however I strongly believe that LOTR is one of the most overrated and pathetic books ever to be written... and my spelling is cack andy... no need to point it out.. I do however disagree with your fimic onslaught 24H... and your attack on harry Potter - I acn gurantee in the future the Potter novels will be some of the most studied in universities, they are technically brilliant, amazing stories, and genuninely revolutionise the genre of childrens story telling - the levels of subtext, and intricacy of the story is truly stunning..... and also, as a piece of imagination, and creation of linguistic advancement (new words, concepts etc...) are probably easily on par with LOTR... I have honestly even seen articles comparing Rowling to Shakespeare! Your reading list is great though, Don Delillo and JG Ballard are 2 of my favourite authors, along with Philip Roth, Mao 2, Underworld and Cocaine Nights are superb.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Oh dear... a nerve seems to have been touched as always happens when you bring up LOTR - Lees, in answer to your question of if this is a wind up from me... slightly, my opinions are being slightly exaggerated for the purpose of the arguement... Wait till me and Tulse Hill start on about the plain fact that Michael Owen is destined to be England's all-time greatest goalscorer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 anyone heard from ritchie wardle last few days? not run off with that air stewardess has he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 anyone heard from ritchie wardle last few days? not run off with that air stewardess has he? He's in Majorca sunning himself.... well he was at least. Think he flys back this afternoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 anyone heard from ritchie wardle last few days? not run off with that air stewardess has he? Yep, he's back today. Think he has been having phone battery problems if you've been trying to get hold of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Yep, he's back today. Think he has been having phone battery problems if you've been trying to get hold of him. lol What from his Special "All singing All dancing" Nokia N95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Dont know what the weather is like in your "neck of the woods" but its pretty bad here in Costa del Southport It was cracking the flags at 10:00 and now................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Dont know what the weather is like in your "neck of the woods" but its pretty bad here in Costa del Southport It was cracking the flags at 10:00 and now................... Yep. Been lovely and sunny up to about the last hour or so - thundery showers and dark now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) lol What from his Special "All singing All dancing" Nokia N95 proberbly got no credit either ringing sexy sadie + randy rita ! or that lama again! Edited July 17, 2007 by johnny punkster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Yep. Been lovely and sunny up to about the last hour or so - thundery showers and dark now! That'll be the Pagans aiming for Dorset but missing. *Link contains graphic images of male nudity!* link There's no rain in London at the moment, it all fell on my head this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) Oh dear... a nerve seems to have been touched as always happens when you bring up LOTR - Lees, in answer to your question of if this is a wind up from me... slightly, my opinions are being slightly exaggerated for the purpose of the arguement... however I strongly believe that LOTR is one of the most overrated and pathetic books ever to be written... and my spelling is cack andy... no need to point it out.. I do however disagree with your fimic onslaught 24H... and your attack on harry Potter - I acn gurantee in the future the Potter novels will be some of the most studied in universities, they are technically brilliant, amazing stories, and genuninely revolutionise the genre of childrens story telling - the levels of subtext, and intricacy of the story is truly stunning..... and also, as a piece of imagination, and creation of linguistic advancement (new words, concepts etc...) are probably easily on par with LOTR... I have honestly even seen articles comparing Rowling to Shakespeare! Your reading list is great though, Don Delillo and JG Ballard are 2 of my favourite authors, along with Philip Roth, Mao 2, Underworld and Cocaine Nights are superb.... I'm short on time. 1. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Potter is studied in universities. The Government want 50% of people to go to them, and more means worse... 2. Technically brilliant? I might take that from someone who could spell. 3. Revolutionise the genre of children's story telling. Again, doubtful. People have been flogging baloney to children for well over a century. Anyway, doesn't "revolutionising the genre" mean that any two-bit hack with an eye for a quid will now try to write something similar? Big deal. 4. Subtext? The subtext is uglier than the actual text: like I say, the fact that adults become so happy that they do little wees because of a children's book is utterly and incontrovertably grotesque. 5. Intricacy of the story? BS. 6. Piece of imagination? I heard that someone wrote a book about a school for wizards years ago, and that rowling had read that book. Imagination or flat out desperation and plagiarism? 7. Linguistic advancement? New words and concepts? Such as? Any you know of made it into every day usage? Hear these words down the pub, do we? Thought not. 8. Rowling and Shakespeare? Now I know you're having a laugh. I've seen "articles" by those hacks too. They say things like "Tony Blair is just like Hitler", "The Streets is the modern Bunyon", or "Freddie Star ate my hamster". The books might be on a par with lotr (lower case, counter-honorifically), but to compare sheet with manure is really stretching one's appetite for pedantry. I haven't read Underworld or Mao II yet, but they're on my shelf. If only I could get a job that gave me three months off in the summer so that I could really get down to some serious reading... Funnily enough, I haven't read Coacaine Nights either, but I've read some of the early ones and quite a lot of the short stories. (BTW, I got Super Cannes and Cocaine Nights last week at Oxfam for 40p the pair! They're going to charge £18 for Harry Potter. A fool and his money...) Edited July 17, 2007 by 24hoursfromtulsehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeTripe Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Wow I post about Fanny a mere few days ago and an explosion of posting occurs here within. Well a few observations, no I don't get HP either, although JKR had a very acceptable cleveage on view on Jonathan Ross t'other week, imho like. LOTR, who knew, who cares! Tanks, ohhhhhhhhhh I been to the Tank museum in Dorset, they got lots of, well, tanks its a thrill a minute. Oh IM lent me a good book "Pies and Prejudice: In Search of the North" - Stuart Maconie, which is very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm short on time. 1. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Potter is studied in universities. The Government want 50% of people to go to them, and more means worse... 2. Technically brilliant? A fool and his money...) Wow, its like speaking to Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.... there is obviously something deep rooted bugging you about this, so i will let it drop.... but as you say, who am I to have an opinion??? I obviously know nothing at all, after studying the said subject at one of our nations finest universities.... but as you say, perhaps I am one of the "more means worse" lot, education obviously has not served me in good enough stead to be able to spell accurately whilst typing quickly on a chatboard..... Damn, its a fair kop.... better get down the pub.... as you say, that is where all the finest linguistic advancements of our time are discussed..... "Shakespeare, LOTR (or is it lotr...??? damn my pedantry) & Harry Potter... thus shalt be our dicussion my learned friends, over thou Pork Scratchings and pint of mild...." Give me a break mate.... please, you say your time is short - yet you have time for that.... I'd get down to reading your illustrious library assembled for a pittance..... however this fool is off to read some Potter.... only slow mind as my brain cant take the long words ( I may ask work for some time off to learn how to speak, read and spell, I obviously need it), then i'm off down the pub with the boys for a game of Quidditch, to chat about Horcruxes, and ask some muggles about the smoking ban.... Please..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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