mcgoo_84

He's :censored: just like Millar. Neither of them have any future in the professional game. When they eventually leave Latics they will tip up at Curzon Ashton. Mellor will end up the same way, in different circumstances though, he looks a decent footballer at times but there's something seriously strange going on inside his head - what was it today? 20 minutes in 'sorry gaffer I can't run' really??

You're right JLF however, these are the normal aggravating features that you see in most cases of this nature. There's nothing here that I can see that makes this an exceptional case. Especially when you consider it to some cases that I have experience of, of individuals doing exactly the same as Mike Nuttall did, forging signatures on cheques, making them payable to themselves, their kids, when in a position of trust (arguably a position to which a lot more trust was attached) to a value over 20 times that what Mike did - and walk away from the Crown Court with a suspended sentence! In the circumstance Mike was unlucky that he got DJ Qureshi, who is, as a rule, pretty strict, in all cases!

Do we know that for certain? Do we know when the last cheque was written as opposed to when it was discovered? Thought not. There are plenty of occasions where people start to offend & then stop themselves when they realise it's gone too far. Let's not be too hasty eh?!

It does happen you know! More often than people think!

Put it this way, if he has sentenced it as a banking fraud, then, on the info as I have it, I would be straight down to he Crown Court lodging an appeal!! Anyhow, best get back to defending innocent people victimised by the police :-)

For anyone who's interested, here is the Sentencing Guidelines Council Definitive Guideline for the sentencing of fraud offences. I would suggest page 24 is where you want to be looking. http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/web_sentencing_for_fraud_statutory_offences.pdf Obviously none of us have the full details of this case, be that the full prosecution case or defence case so I'm giving my opinion based solely on what I know (ie: don't shoot me if more info comes out that casts doubt on what I've said!!) It appears to me that this falls into the category of 'banking fraud', the fact that the offending involves the writing of 6 cheques is catered for in the guideline when you look at the nature of offence column. So he will have been sentenced on the basis of 1 fraud but with the aggravating feature that he did it 6 times. However, that said, the value is key. This seems to slot nicely into the 'Fraudulent from the outset, and either, fraud carried out over a significant amount of time, or, multiple frauds' bracket. Then you look at the starting points & ranges based on value. The value of £2400 puts him in the lowest category that has a starting point of a high level community order but with a range (dependent on the aggravating and mitigating features of the case) of a low level community order to 6 weeks custody. Given that these guidelines are for a 1st time offender, convicted after a trial it appears that the Judge has gone way outside these guidelines. Take into account the fact that he'll have been granted a full 3rd credit for his early guilty plea - we're effectively talking about a case that the Judge deemed worthy of 6 months after trial - which is the maximum custodial sentence you can receive in the Magistrates Court. Is this the worst fraud case ever dealt with by Magistrates? No chance, but that's how the District Judge has sentenced it, or so it appears. To me it seems that there is something that none of is know about, ie: a factor that took it away from a banking fraud, to a confidence fraud (see page 20). If he's sentenced it as a confidence fraud then it appears to be quite a top heavy sentence but within the guidelines. I hope that helps with people's understandings - I know it's quite long winded. As I often tell clients, it's difficult to give a proper comment / opinion on what you may get / what someone should have got without having all the papers in front of me.

I'll look at the guidelines. My gut reaction is that he's been hammered! When I've had 10 mins to dig the guidelines out I'll be back!

From Manchester City Mags he'll have gone to Strangeways. If he'd been dealt with at Oldham Mags it would have been Forest Bank

Exactly, Leyton Orient, club similar in size & stature to ourselves, no doubt similar budgets too yet just because they've had a decent start to the season our fans appear to be in awe of them, it's an embarrassing attitude.

I don't get this acceptance of mediocrity.

Absolutely. We had that very same discussion at the time, whether he touched it or not, he ran right into Oxley's line of vision therefore had a direct impact on any decision Oxley had to make, therefore, had to be given offside! But, you hey those bits of luck when you're at the top don't you?!

And I never said it did, I said, the fact that we dominated the game means I'm pissed off that we didn't win it. Not happy clapping about getting a point just because they were top when we happened to play them.

No - 'anyone' wouldn't have taken a point before kick off. I wouldn't. I said before the game this would happen, that we'd draw & people would be jizzing over the fact we took a point off top of the league! Boringly predictable.

PS - what's my job got to do with anything?!

I never said I wasn't happy with how we played, I think we played well for the most part. What I'm not happy with is this nonsense that because they were top of the league we should be delighted that we took a point from them, without looking at how the game itself panned out. I'm disappointed that given the way the game went & the fact that we had the better, clearer cut chances that we didn't win. Is that unreasonable? Or should I just be grateful that the mighty O's allowed us to take a point from them?

No - a point isn't a good result when the game goes like today's. It was a game we should have won. We played well, I'll give them that, but we failed to kill off a team that on the day we should have beaten. This is the point I'm trying to make. Too many people have this mentality that they are happy with a point because of the fact that they were top of the league! So what? On the day they were :censored: & we should have beaten them!

Sorry?

Could have won?? Try SHOULD have won. Whether they had won 8 out of 9 before today or not is irrelevant to today's game. You play what's in front of you, not their previous record. They were :censored:, we should have been 3 up at half time, I'm really disappointed & don't understand this 'they were top of the league, we should be happy to have taken a point from them' attitude!!

We won't improve until people stop accepting averageness!!! (If that's even a word, but you know what I'm getting at!) The whole mentality around the club & the fans is the reason we won't get anywhere ever!c Until we stop accepting 1-1 draws at home to Leyton Orient we won't improve. Yes they are top if the league, but it would only be a good result if they were better than us and / or outplayed us but they didn't. Just because they were top nobody thinks we should win these types of games & it's really really starting to get on my tits!!

Why are you pleased with a home point against Leyton Orient for Christs sake?! How far have we fallen, how bad have things got that people think a point against Leyton Orient is a good result?! They were :censored:, we dominated another game & couldn't win it!! Another 2 points pissed up the wall.

Trust me, the police need very little excuse / evidence to go through someone's door & lock them up, only to release them without charge 20 hours later! It happens all too frequently I can assure you.

:censored:e, nothing to get excited about, nothing more than a glorified friendly with a 2000 crowd! Standard 1st round exit!

This is a topic that has wound me up for a long long time! Our website is appalling, as stated above, how difficult is it to check what you've written before publishing it? It's not just words missing or spelt wrong, they get basic facts wrong, a few weeks back they referred to the great escape of 1994! Did another club make a great escape the season after us or was that just lazy?? In the same week there was a preview of Shrews away that stated how Tom Eaves would be starting against us, this being the same Tom Eaves that played for Bolton 48 hours earlier having been recalled from his loan!! For a professional football club, or any business for that matter, it is utterly embarrassing! The programme is no better either! I could go on but fear I may spontaneously combust if I do so!