De_La_Vega

Not too concerned by the sale of Smalley if it goes through, because although he has potential I've not seen too much evidence that he's ready to make use of it. Games like Stockport at home were too few and far between really. We need to be sure we get a sell-on clause in there though, because there is undoubtedly a bit of talent in the lad. Wouldn't mind seeing the back of Alessandra or Wolfenden before we'd lost him, but still he's one who's general demeanour on the pitch didn't thrill me towards the end of the season. If we get £250k for him with a sell-on clause I think we'll have done well.

Friend of a friend rumour that I was told suggested that O'Grady was on a good wage, and Alessandra has signed up for 3 years - neither of them is scoring consistently and I can't see that either will be shifted easily. Who would want to take them on? I've no issues with Latics buying quality, and I have no desire to see good players ignored in order that crap ones at the club get cozy niches and games under their belts. However I can see only bad things coming out of our having too many players to give them all a chance. Yeovil, Carlisle and others have done pretty well out of having small but good teams where everyone is involved and the spirit is there - if we have a bit of cash then I'd like to see us replicate that with a higher standard of player. Even forgetting the money issue, I'd like to see O'Grady given a fair run, because I don't think he is bereft of ability - even if he doesn't really look like a goal threat - and I thought Sheridan treated him poorly last year.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sheridan's first season see a small, tightly knit squad with a couple of real quality players get to the play-offs? Besides which, I'm not arguing that Alessandra and O'Grady are worth first team places - I'm saying that economics has to be balanced and I cannot see how we can afford to have the pair of them sat in the reserves pulling in good wages while we have 2 first team strikers playing week in, week out. Plus you keep talking about youth players who excel getting a chance but I can't see why you think that if we have several "first team" strikers playing. My basic point is that we have baggage in this team and I don't see it being a good idea to bury it beneath shiny new signings. I'd rather see us pick up a guy like Danny Graham on what one assumes would be a lucrative deal than just bring in numbers of players in the belief that a big squad will catapult us to promotion. Economics at this level of football, in my eyes, has to insist on keeping a balanced squad and I don't see that being achieved by bringing in numbers. It is quality that we need.

Where is the sentiment in all this? I'm not saying that we have to let the team pick itself but as we look at it now there are only two positions where we have a shoe-in, keeper and centre-back. Given that the initial quote was for 6 outfield players I'm discounting the first. Then the point I'm making is that if you buy two strikers then O'Grady and Alessandra can play in this wildly successful reserve team that you seem keen to lump all your faith into, but if so then where do Wolfenden, Brooke and other youth players like Eaves get the opportunity to blood themselves against a higher standard of opposition? The way I see it that leaves us with the option of either hindering the development of our better youth players, or just leaving strikers out who are being paid a first-team wage. You talk about no room for sentiment, but you might want to open your eyes to the fact that we have a 3-sided ground. We have no room for wasted wages either, and that is what having 5 professional strikers would be - and the excludes Brooke etc.

Fair enough then, each to their own. Personally I think 2 new strikers is too many unless we can offload O'Grady or Alessandra, and I'd rather see a single high-quality recruit than a couple of decent players. Besides which, by January we could have been able to write off Wolfenden and one of the other two on loan or permanently should they have not made the grade, and reinforcements either on loan or permanently at that stage could be a useful. I think a good manager gets the best out of the players at his disposal, and I look at our squad and see some decent footballers some of whom have the potential to be better than that - I'll be disappointed if Penney doesn't try and bring them on and just surplants them with new recruits.

Only thing is about players dropping straight into our starting XI is that still nobody has told me where the new players are going to fit in... For all that this chat has gone round and round the houses, I still haven't read any real plan of where we're going to fit in 3 more players to a squad that has (given the 3 signings) got a keeper, a full defence, lots of midfielders and about 5 strikers. I assume we have a finite pot to make signings from, and if that is the case then I'd rather see the money spent on getting a real quality striker and centre-half while giving the players we have a proper run out. The biggest test facing DP as far as I can see is that there seem to be attitude problems with Alessandra, Smalley (given his insipid performance last couple of times I saw him) and Eardley (so we're told). Still, we could always just have 3 or 4 more players to fill the team.

Only thing is I didn't say that I thought that guys like O'Grady, Alessandra et al are good enough - but if you bring in guys above their heads then you just have a couple of lads sat earning for doing nothing. Even if they aren't good enough, I'd rather them be given a chance to prove themselves than just bypassed and left to rot. Plus I don't think O'Grady ever got a fair run in the team, and although I am far from convinced of his ability I have seen enough hard work that I'd be willing to give him the chance to fail. To go back a couple too, the point is that I don't hink we have positions that are uncontested - we have a fair few players there already. The fact is that several are untried, but that is going to be worse if we bring in loads more players. Besides which, nobody has answered my initial question - where do these 6 players fit in? If we add a left-back, a centre-half and a striker then that still leaves 3 outfield players who we're going to sign and I'd like to know where they're going to go rather than just being told we need them. Assuming Purdie plays wide-right then we have already got a large midfield / wide / up front contingent, but given that I rate Eardley and want to see Black play some games this year then I don't see where they all go.

Premier League sides with large squads can afford to have entirely reserve teams - if we have the luxury of being able to fritter the cash on that then so be it. As for injuries and suspensions, is that not what loans are for? Why not have a strong 1st XI that you have confidence in backed by younger lads, with the possibility of bringing people in selectively on loan to plug gaps? As I see it if you buy two strikers then O'Grady, Alessandra and Wolfenden will be surplus to requirements - excepting injuries and suspensions. How better though, for Brooke to get a run in the team and play a few games than for covering just such an emergency? Alex Ferguson wanted 4 strikers back in the day - we seem to want about 6. Hmmm, but maybe it is just the way they're managed...

I think if you look across football there will be a huge number of players who never kick on from playing reserve level football, because it is no substitute for the real thing. You talk about players "learning their trade", but how are they going to learn it in reserve team football if they haven't learnt it by their early twenties? Guys like Chris Hall, Matty Barlow and all the rest of them are perfect examples - whereas look at Tierney who is now a regular League 1 left-back through playing regularly. You're kidding yourself if you think that guys like Black will come on as well through the reserves - if the lad is good enough to make it then he's good enough to be played now, or at least to be part of a squad with a realistic chance of playing. I'm not saying that these lads have to be first-team regulars, but if lads like Wolfenden, O'Grady, Alessandra, Black, Lomax and Stephens are not making a dozen or more starts in all comps across the next season then they are a waste of time. As I say, if that is the case then I'll not argue, but you are wasting money if you keep them there ad infinitum. Where exactly do you want these 6 players to play? Taking out the centre-half, striker and left-back that I assume we need; where are the other 3 guys going to fit in? Talk about getting 2 strikers in, then where does Brooke go to play when O'Grady and Alessandra are the starting pair for the reserves? Where does Eaves get his first tastes of senior football? Sorry, but 6 players is too many and you're putting too much faith in the reserves as the cure of our ills. Last year was not a mess because of the lack of a reserve team, although I'll agree that it didn't help.

Great moment, although what Jimmy Glass has to do to get into the list I'm not sure...

Last year the squad was bloated and unmanageable, and if we add another 6 or 7 players we'll have exactly the same situation again. A club in our position should be using youngsters to cover the keeping position with a loan move to cover any injuries - otherwise what is the point in these kids being at the club? As for transfers; I think that if we bring in a centre-half and a striker then we'll be looking at a decent squad - not great, but decent. On top of those two I'd like to see us bring in an experienced defender who can be a left-back but cover in the centre, but after that I'd stop unless we are going to start off-loading more players. We currently have both full-back positions filled (albeit one of them by Lomax/Black) with cover for them both (either Lomax or Purdie), we have numerous guys who can play wide (Lee, O'Grady, Taylor, Smalley, Black & Purdie), 4 centre-mids (Stephens, Lee, Whitaker & Worthington) and 4 strikers (O'Grady, Alessandra, Wolfenden & Smalley). Granted some of those are players covering multiple positions, and some are untested. However if the untested guys are so far from being ready then why are they with us, and one corrosive thing for squad morale last year seems to have been idle hands who couldn't get a game - reference Lee and Alessandra. Burnley showed the benefits of squad togetherness and a belief in quality - that is something I think we should learn from. Having a massive squad just means that you have guys who can't ever play and blocks the chances of young lads coming through. If Black, Wolfy, Lomax, Stephens, Alessandra et al aren't good enough then they shouldn't be with us, and if they have the talent then get them in the team for my money.

Whatever happens we can't let Eardley leave for nothing, so if we get only £300k for the lad then at least it is something. However, if we get less than half a million then I'll feel aggrieved with the world because he is clearly worth at least that. Should he go then the boo boys will have nobody to blame but themselves, although given the stories about his attitude during the season that have been circulating on here lately, it may well be that the damage is already done...

Half-decent? Gregan was the best footballing centre-half at this level, just too slow and not quite tall enough to boss it. As for Allott; not the greatest in the world but I'd have no qualms about seeing him start the season as one of our first-choice midfield. Tremendous last year don't forget.

I'm not convinced that the ripping up of the squad is a particularly good idea; it hasn't worked for us before when we've brought in large numbers of players over the summer. Absolutely gutted at the loss of the Staminator - that man was a legend and on the sly a quality player when fit. Bit confused as to how we're going to play high quality football when we're releasing footballing centre-halves of the calibre of Stam and Gregan, but we'll see what we get in I guess. The only hope I have is that we'll build on the elements already in place at the club - and if we bring in "8 or 9" first-teamers then I can't see how that can be. A centre-half, a centre-forward, a winger and a reserve keeper would give us a useful team and squad for next year, with probably a left-back needed unless Black is going to be good enough. That is 5 - where are the other 3 going to fit into the squad unless more leave?

Stefan Stam is a quality player - the season before this he proved it by putting in the majority of the year alongside Hazell who (while beastly and passionate) is not great as a footballer or defender, and yet together the pair of them were the real success story of our season. They kept the defence tight, and it was really our lack of goals that cost us then - so why is all this forgotten after a season in which he's hardly had a run of two games together? The only things the mighty Stam lacks are; a real physical edge (but if you can put him next to a meathead then he can use his quality on the ball to best effect) and he isn't vocal and dominant enough. Similar story here to the Eardley one - good player for some reason hated by fans who don't know a footballer when they see one.

Shez had a good start, but increasingly his signings were questionable and this season has been steadily drifting away since long before he got the chop. The guy is a legend for his playing performances, and I remember his first couple of seasons fondly. You can't ignore the fact though that this season has been appalling and the most corrosive in terms of the club's support that I can ever remember. That said though I don't just blame Shez - so-called senior players look to have let him down badly, and I'd question the support he received from Dux and Tommy Wright. A sad end to a club legend, but had to be done for mine...

Who is this Andrew Whitehead? I've heard him mentioned a couple of times in the "World's Greatest Players" list, but i've never had the good fortune to hear him talk solid good sense about the world in general. Unlike Ryan "The Wankster" Cartwright, who a man so bad at football that he actually had to move down South to find somewhere his infamy had yet to pierce. Now he is regularly employed by some dirt-bags in the wilds of dirty London as a specialist in giving hand-jobs to the referee before the game - they'll do anything to win those cheating shandy drinkers... My next mission is to find said Whitehead, and laud him with great praise for being an all-English leader.

Dave Penney, Paul Jewell, Paul Ince, Mickey Adams and Colin Calderwood. I will cry if we get any of them! All :censored:e I'm afraid and especially the last two. Penney had so much money it is scary, what would he make of our budget? Have Doncaster ever produced a player of their own? Woe is me... Richard Money would be an interesting shout, did a good job helping youth through at Walsall and even seemed capable of getting a footballer out of Ricketts. Apart from that though Gannon then Robins. Please God, not Calderwood...

Why the anti-Gannon lobby?

Oh, and Ince and Jewell are non-starters. You'd have more chance of Boothroyd, and he'd be infinitely preferrable. Guys who have had big moves in the past aren't going to want to risk their reputations slumming it with us, they'll want to hold their lustre as long as possible in the hope of getting a move back to the Prem where all the cash is. You can be a millionaire in one season...

Some silly attacks in there on Craig Davies I see - proof that Latics fans really do never learn... The man scored about a goal every other game at Stockport didn't he? Jim Gannon brings with him the assumption that he'll work with young lads and get the best out of them, and if all went well then him and Philiskirk at the club could be a match made in heaven. That said though, there have been doubts raised about his ability to handle experienced players in much the same way as they were raised about Sheridan - if we get him then I hope that we don't have a similar disaster on our hands. No reason to think that though, so Gannon gets my vote. That said though, I'd also be interested in Mark Robbins who has done a cracking job at Rotherham. I am not convinced that the side we could start next year with is a disaster either. So my criteria for choosing the boss have to be; - We need to get the players fitter, too much playing for only 20 minute spells this year. Replicate Dowie's greatest asset. - Get the ball on the floor, and play with width. All our aces are out wide, so we have to use them properly. - Use the youth team well, both in bringing through future players and progressing the guys in the team. - Be a disciplinarian. The Davies situation (allegedly falling out with team-mates), the Taylor issue (allegedly Gregan and Hughes bullying him: leading to...), the Belle Vue fiasco and the seemingly poor attitude to training of Lee / Alessandra or Smalley's current lack of interest - they all need to be stamped out. It is a lot to deal with, but we have a few decent players at the club so it should tempt ambitious, young managers. Plus if we start well then I would not be surprised if the owners sanctioned signings in January - they've always backed their managers...

Don't like having a go at Latics players, but I thought Smalley was very poor on Saturday. He looks to be off the pace, and with no real desire to get back on it - which is worrying from a young lad who should be hungry for games. For a while I've thought his best position is through the middle, because he doesn't have the out of the ordinary skills that a winger needs - both with his positioning but also the willingness to work with his full-back. It is no surprise that Eardley offered more of a threat when he had Liddell in front of him - a guy that both Taylor and Smalley could learn a lot from. Alessandra was poor, but he's a link man for other strikers - the sort who looks to get on the ball deep rather than pick it up over the top. My biggest criticism of him is that he hasn't really got a goal threat, but he's young and still learning the game at this level. His performances early season were winning him fulsome praise, so I won't damn him just yet. He needs to keep improving though, and he and Smalley must learn from this season to improve next year - if they keep doing that then they'll be fine.

Yeah, not a bad effort today. Still looks painfully short of confidence, but it is hard to pick out players when the whole team seems to be stuck in a real malaise. Besides which, I was sat behind a woman who knew his mum - she was texting her during the game and knew all about his brother's circumstances so I took her at her word - and she was saying that he's been in physio all week due to a back problem that he's been carrying for a couple of weeks. If true then it could help explain why he looks less sharp and dynamic than he can...

Propping up League 1? Hmmm, I think you over-estimate the ability of the average team in this division... The fact of our situation is that Eardley, Fleming, Taylor, Lee and Smalley are talented youngsters who we need to build around. That back 3 mirrors very closely the one that did so well the season before last, and the midfield has a fair bit going for it - our problem would be goals. Hence you bring in a striker. As the Meerkat says, "simples". Stop being so negative; the awful performances of a team low on confidence and morale are not always the best indication of the talent within a side.

Smalley was poor yesterday - I seriously wonder about his attitude. He looked uninterested for large parts of the game, and coming after rumours about this text message it makes me wonder whether he doesn't need a rocket up the ass pretty sharpish. However, if someone has thrown something at him then that is unacceptable - but no grounds to show that level of disrespect to the paying fans who've funded their highly average performances this season. Poor no show from the players...