League one forever

33 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

You're clearly not listening,

Give over.  I’m challenging your point- on a football forum. 
 

34 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

As an aside, I've noticed that you sometimes forensically dissect posts in an attempt to trip people up, claiming that they are contradicting themselves, when often they are not. If that floats your boat, so be it, but life's too short.

I have no interest in winding you or anyone up, or tripping people up. That would be sad. I do enjoy talking Latics and I come back to what people type - it’s called debate, and if you read my last post I agreed with you on a couple of points. When I didn’t agree, I said why. 
 

44 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

Anyone would think we'd been transformed overnight from 30 years of being a mis-managed basket case to a model club, which should be doing much better on the pitch. We are at the very beginning of a long road to recovery under beneficent owners who are new to football and who will not get everything right but are hopefully learning as they go along.

Fine. I think we should be further along in lots of different ways on the football side by now,  but we’ll agree to disagree. 

 

47 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

You were happy to go along with MM as we rose up the table and got as high as 5th, and now, when it looks like the playoff push may be over, you seem to want to chuck your toys out of the pram and condemn him for "treading water" - fine, but I'll be more tolerant and wait to see what he achieves next season.

Nope. What I do is follow results, and when we’re winning- I’m delighted. I even defend poor football and very poor home form if overall he’s doing well- which he was. When we can’t buy a win I start to question why- which is completely normal.
 

Did you actually read my last post? 
 

I specifically said - this isn’t a sack Mellon thing. I haven’t ‘condemned him’ or thrown my toys out about him for treading water. I said it’s a reflection on what I see as a poor football operation and Mellon is only a part of that. I then went onto say I hope they have a meeting in the summer to clear the air or reset. 
 

55 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

If you in your infinite wisdom

Never claimed to be wise, nor trying to be clever, that’s a cheap shot. I think recruitment has been largely poor since they came in, you don’t. Fine. 
 

1 hour ago, Worcester Owl said:

I am happy to give MM a full summer window, and hope he won't be too restricted by the deadweight he inherited. 

Agreed, and I do think he will be restricted by what has been a poor football operation. Hopefully he can wheel and deal. 

4 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

I wasn't making a comparison - I'm not interested in Southend's situation though

I was talking about Southend- and how they done well in difficult circumstances, and how we have done poorly in good circumstances. You then said ‘you don’t think our board had it shit with the chuckle brothers’ if that isn’t comparing then what it is? If you’re not interested in Southend, and what can be achieved on a fraction of what we have- just ignore my post?

6 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

Maybe giving a guy a sensible amount of time to build something is an idea.

You say this. 

11 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

Results will determine his fate

Then this. (Which I agree with) 
 

No manager can build anything if results don’t meet expectation. He has said himself his target was the playoffs. He hasn’t don’t it. So far he’s failed- he might yet come good. Let’s hope so. 
 

15 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

Very few people questioned player recruitment at the start of the season (under Unsworth) or in January (under Mellon).

Eh? It was all we talked about. 
 

Unsworth -

Why no right back. 
Why no cover for Kitch.

Why no wide players other than green. 
Why do we keep signing strikers when we are short in midfield. 
Do we need 6 centre backs.

Mellon. 

Why no cover for Kitch. 
Why no wide players. 
Why sign a rwb for 3-5-2 then say he doesn’t have a right back. 
Why did we sign Garner

You may agree or disagree with the above but plenty were questioning the at times nonsensical recruitment decisions. 

22 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

This is a tough league to get out of, full stop, and patience is required.

I’m very fair in my expectations- 7th this season without promotion was solid progress. I don’t think that’s unreasonable or being impatient. 
 

12th to 10th is not solid progress, it’s treading water for a club with our budget. 

Just now, Worcester Owl said:

You don't think our board/owners have been working in a shit show, given what they inherited from the Chuckle Brothers?

 

They got the Unsworth appointment wrong, for which we can probably blame the Royles. They have now gone for an experienced manager, who has so far had just 28 league games - hardly more than half a season with no proper transfer window and a legacy squad that is clearly not one he would have wanted - to show what he can do. We were 22nd in the league when Unsworth left, and plenty on here said Thompson and Redfearn weren't the answer after three poor draws in a row. MM at least threatened to get us into the play-offs, and may still do.

 

But fine, sack him and let's start all over again next season. I sometimes wonder if as fans we get the performances we deserve.

Poor comparison.  Our owners moved us away from what Southend are still going through. . . 
 

The equivalent to Southend and Maher would be AL still being here and someone like Pete wild doing great job in horrible circumstances. 
 

Both our last two managers work for fabulous owners and a settled club. 
 

On your last paragraph - I wasn’t make a sack him point. Mellon is just a moving part in what has been a poor football operation for two seasons. 
 

Board decisions. 
Recruitmemt. 
Player performance. 
 

In my view things are disjointed on the football operation. With lots of contradictions. I hope in the summer there is a big meeting between the family, the board,  Mellon, and senior players to hold each other to account and have some honest conversations about where mistakes have been made. 
 

4 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

His post certainly is. Even by his standards, it's as nonsensical as it is doom-ridden.

Yeah,  I was specifically talking about his point regarding Southend. 
 

We keep hearing that it takes time, mistakes will be made, we can’t expect to much. . despite the club being in a fantastic position for success. And yet they’re working in an absolute shit show. . but have recruited well on a shoe string, have a good manager, and got the most from their tiny squad. What they achieved this season given the circumstances is excellent. 
 

Meanwhile we are aimlessly throwing money at the wall to see what sticks, and in comparison to them our whole structure of recruitment/getting the best from the players/consistency of performance put us to shame. 
 

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

You forgot to mention they’ve had the same manager since October 2021

Knew that was coming.

Southend really have embarrassed us. 
 

Awful owner.

Club in turmoil. 
 

Transfer embargo. 
 

Tiny squad, sometimes not able to name a full bench. 

Above us in the table 

Would be 5th without the point deduction. 

Us.

Brilliant owner.
 

Takeover nearly two years ago. 

Big budget - and spent a relative fortune. 
 

Massive squad that doesn’t have one contracted professional in certain positions. 
 

Finished 12th and now sat 10th. 
 

We are massively underachieving. 
 

14 minutes ago, GKing521 said:

It's totally and utterly embarrassing.

Shambles from board level to the playing staff. Everyone involved needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

The fact that numerous bin man teams are comfortably above us genuinely makes me feel unwell with the amount of cash we've thrown at these rank losers.

What's the solution? I have no idea, but I fear we will be at this level for many years and could become quickly comfortable as a non-league outfit. 

There’s no denying, that is embarrassing. 

Just now, League one forever said:

Yeah, good shout. 
 

Is there a way of protecting 16 - 18 years olds? The modern day equivalent of YTS? 
 

If not,  I’d give them all a small contract for a year. £150 a week or something. If they’re under contract we can protect the investment. 

If memory serves I think they can sign professional terms at 16. . . 

59 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

In terms of academy, I think we'd keep the Under 18's. It's likely to be the younger age group (U9-U16) that go surely...

Yeah, good shout. 
 

Is there a way of protecting 16 - 18 years olds? The modern day equivalent of YTS? 
 

If not,  I’d give them all a small contract for a year. £150 a week or something. If they’re under contract we can protect the investment. 

2 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

That's not just here, it's everywhere. Every manager in the modern day who has been given "time" has been given the time because they've gone in and won football matches. Wild was mentioned earlier - people point out he was given 3 years at Halifax. The reason he got 3 years is because he went in and immediately won games of football.

 

Flip side of that is Noble at Wealdstone. Gone in there, can't buy a win. Sacked. It isn't just an Oldham issue...

Bang on Paddy. 
 

We’re not impatient or strange or weird. 
 

Any club has a level of expectation- meet it and you get more time. 
 

Don’t and you’re under pressure. 
 

I’ll never understand give him time without merit. 
 

5 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

I'm not saying they aren't. He's been given time and patience at Altrincham. He wouldn't get that here

You can’t compare Guy. 
 

Alty and us have two totally different expectations and rightly so. 
 

Parky got time, because they were happy to consolidate for a few years. We want promotion asap. 
 

The better comparison is to say- would Mellon get time if he finished 7th 5th 3rd- and the answer is unequivocally- yes. 

This season he has failed to meet the boards and his own publicly admitted expectations. He needs to rectify that quickly. 

1 minute ago, nzlatic said:

Mellon should have enough behind him to not be fazed by the job. Might just need…. time!

Mmmm. 
 

I think he’s started to unravel, but let’s hope a break does him good. 

1 minute ago, nzlatic said:

This is Parkinson’s 4th season in the national league. He’s finished 17th, 14th, 17th and is now in the play offs. At a club that was part time til recently and probably had very little expectation from the fans or the board. 
 

Would he get that sort of time here? Would he be able to handle the pressure of a big club at this level? It’d be a massive punt. 

Good post. 
 

Mellon said that Lundy has struggled playing for a big club in the division, and he wasn’t alone. I think you’re right and that applies to managers as well. The challenge of big club in a small pond is too big for a lot of them. 
 

I know wasn’t this division. But the only two managers who I’ve felt didn’t seem fazed or under pressure, and consistently looked to galvanise was Dowie and Johnson, surprise surprise both left for bigger jobs. 
 

The rest fall into- come in with varying past records - look full promise, then quickly unravel citing- budgets, false promises, what they inherited, defending poor runs. After a while longer they look completely haunted in post match pressers. 
 

The closet I’ve seen to Dowie or LJ down here is Williamson, I don’t think anyone else touches him. (For up and coming, can handle a big club, doesn’t seem fazed) 

Note to all.
 

Eyrsey loved David Dunn because he was young and progressive. Rumour has it, he set up the first Oldham Athletic Ritchie Wellens Fan Club- but it was disbanded after relegation. 
 

His record on knowing a manager and getting the big calls right is unprecedented. 

25 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

You sound like an average bloke who's demanding the perfect blonde with big tits who will do all the housework and pay half the bills and will blow you off everyday to just drop in your lap.

Yeah. What’s your point. . ? 

3 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

No shit. 

All I’m saying is- it’s easy to advocate for time-  until results are poor. 

For all those saying give him time-

I will await your response if it’s piss poor after ten games next season. . . 
 

We all want continuity - but it must come with something tangible. No manager can sustain poor results in the name of ‘give it time’ 

11 minutes ago, spanishfly said:

Certain posters on here had me questioning whether I still knew anything about football with their ultra positive view of things. I could not see anything promising on the pitch. "You need to watch us away, look at the form table " etc. etc

Re - writing history there. 
 

What you had, was posters offering balance to poor football at home. 
 

We talked about away form - because it was very good at that time. 
 

We talked about the form table- because at that time it was very good. 

2 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

The problem is if he spends the money available in the summer and this form continues we are in even deeper shit aren’t we?

I’m glad I’m not making the decision!

Yep- totally agree. 
 

You’ve then got the new guy - who can say, none of these are my players. .

16 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Does everyone remember when I got pelters on here for complaining about our home form and the negative 7-1-2 formations Mellon sent out to try and nick   draw, I was shouted down on the basis we were fluking 1-0 wins at Dorking, everyone still happy with the shite we've been served up at BP because I certainly ain't, advice I was given at the time was to look at the bigger picture and the progress we've made, what happens now that we are going backwards?.

 

Four points in our last six home games is pitiful and I know we've played huge teams like Kidderminster and Fylde in that run but still, we shouldn't be making any excuses for Mellon, Gateshead for instance lost their manager and half a dozen players six month ago plus their best player and captain at Christmas Greg Olley yet they've managed to consolidate a place in the playoffs on 69 points with five still to play. That's on a fraction of our budget and one of the smallest squads, this leagues piss poor and we are paying the majority of our players and manager for that matter League 1 or 2 money.

 

This seasons a huge fucking failure, let the post mortem begin but don't tell me Mellon didn't have enough to get this team in the playoffs because that's just bollocks, it's all gone a bit Richie Wellens for me when he managed to get us relegated after he gave up and I'd suggest Mellons done the same because if he hasn't he's incompetent or incapable and needs removing, why give him another 10 games that some are asking for I've seen enough in 30 odd to tell me somethings not right.

It’s easy to be wise after the event. .

At the time you posted that, we were in the playoffs and the away form was propping up the very poor home form. In numerous games we created chances and played some decent stuff at times- especially away from home. 
 

His PPG was good, and overall he was doing well. 
 

Since then our form has completely collapsed, we don’t look like scoring,  we create very little, and the football is getting worse. 
 

I didn’t agree with you then, for the reasons above. But things have changed, and at this time I now agree with you that he has failed this season.  

If he moulds things in the summer and we start like a house of fire, he gets more time and my backing. If this form carried on- he goes. Opinions change on results. 

2 minutes ago, Londonboy said:

I've been supporting Latics for close on 50 years now and I know changing the manager every 12 months is not the answer. The 2 most successful managers in my era were Frizzel and Big Joe and both were given the time to make their mark and they did.

However what's most important is we have the right manager in place to give time...and resources too, and I'm not convinced yet this is Mellon even with his track record. 

Are his tactics outdated in the modern game? Is he prepared to take more risks? 

His previous success' were a bit turgid by all accounts, and as can be seen in recent seasons, the teams that succeed like Stockport, Wrexham, Notts County, Chesterfield all score goals by the hateful with an attractive, pacey brand of football, and with a nice mixture of experience and youth. It's questionable I think if this is something Mellon deliver.

We missed out on Williamson which was a big mistake, and opted for Mellon so he deserves the chance I guess to put things right next season, however I have a horrible feeling that it may be a similar story and we are saying the same things again next April

Yeah, this is where I am. 
 

I’m saying giving him the summer - more out of hope than belief.

2 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

The problem is it's still largely "Unsworth's shit" until the end of next season, unless we can find some gullible clubs to take a few of them off our hands (which is at the point they turn into world-beaters, probably..).

 

Mellon needs more time to sort us out.  If not, it'll just be a different manager with the same players and probably the same outcome.  It'll be more of the same next season I fear, whoever the manager is.  Then a summer of rebuilding.  Then a season to gel, with the prospect of getting up the season after.

 

Could take a while, this...

Yeah, it’s a good point. Take out whether Mellon should stay or go.

The next guy is left with same problems. 
 

I suppose it comes down to, do we believe that with a summer to mould things Mellon will kick us on. . . ? 
 

3 minutes ago, Londonboy said:

It's abysmal Bosh and has got embarrassingly worse under Mellon unfortunately.

3 wins in 16 games and this includes trophy games against tin pot teams.

Some on here think this is progress....not sure what drugs they are on but I'll have some please!

He picks the team, he dictates the tactics so the book stops with him.

It's just not good enough.

I agree with you- no manager can ask for time if results aren’t good enough against the agreed expectation. However, I still think he gets the summer and then we look at it again after ten games. 
 

Are you saying- sack him now? 

19 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said:

I realised that after I’d said it (I’ve done it before) but couldn’t be arsed going back and correcting myself. Thanks.

You said it with conviction - which as anyone knows- is all that matters. The actual meaning is irrelevant.

4 minutes ago, oafcmetty said:

That huge expectation was foolish though. We ended last season with DU fluking his way to a decent run of results, but at no stage did we look like real contenders, and that continued at the start of this season, even with a few decent (on paper) signings. The longer we don't play over the summer, the better we get on paper. But reality is a harsh mistress.

 

It's the same with any player who's out of the side for a while - the calls grow and grow to get them back in the side as they must be better than the crap currently playing. Conveniently forgetting that the likely reason they're out of the side in the first place is they were crap themselves previously.

 

People need to reset their expectations. We're in non-league. We're able to attract better talent than most others in non-league, but the players are never going to be world beaters. We're up against sides who've played together for longer than we have, who normally do one thing really well. We're still building that, and repairing the damage done by the AL years. It's going to take time - we're not going to win every match. It's foolish to judge MM based on what we've seen so far - most of the players aren't his, and he hasn't had a pre-season to properly bed in what he wants to do.

Good post- very balanced. 

I don’t think expecting playoffs with our budget is unrealistic though. The standard to finish 7th isn’t great, Unsworth took us from bottom four to top half after 3 wins in 17. We’ve had two awful runs this season and can still mathematically get in the playoffs. 
 

As you say- reality is a harsh mistress. No manager gets time if they don’t get results or you see progress. 
 

He has 1 win in 11. If we start poorly next season, he’s rightly under massive pressure.