League one forever

Just now, nzlatic said:

Sack him. Sack the players. Sack the board. Sack the statistics. 
 

Then if the new lot aren’t top of the table in 6 months, sack them all too. 
 

Give medals to the fans who were signing anti James Norwood songs loudly and repeatedly for the crime of… checks notes… missing a chance. They’re the real heroes. 
 

This toxicity is fucking performative and farcical. I can’t be arsed with it. 

As is any lacking any fair and/or  balanced critical eye over things. 
 

For every fanatical ‘everything is shit fan’ there is a fanatical ‘everything will come good/what you whinging about’ fan. 
 

You will never say, this isn’t good enough, or question why. You will always find a reason an excuse for why things aren’t going well. 
 

The whole football operation is badly run, you can dress it up how you want but the decision making speaks for itself. 

56 minutes ago, the_mighty_bosh said:

Board, management and players all need to be seriously questioned during the summer due to this level of collapse in the last quarter of the season and no one should assume their position is safe (Frank excluded obviously).

Agreed Bosh. 
 

It’s not just Mellon. ( Who is now under big pressure for his part) 

The whole football operation has been really poor for two seasons, and the evidence reflects that. After all the money spent, we’re left an underperforming bloated and hugely imbalanced squad. 
 

If I was Frank or the family I’d be asking questions of everybody on the football side- not just Mellon. 

13 minutes ago, JoeP said:

but he comes across as completely fed-up in interviews and the players don't seem to be playing for him.

Agreed Joe. 
 

Said this a few weeks ago. 

3 minutes ago, latics22 said:

MM won’t go on, he made it’s pretty clear when asked.

Yeah I saw that- when Dave asked him. 
 

Think they might’ve upset him when they said on socials that he walked out of post match presser without taking their questions. 
 

Don’t think he likes questions that aren’t the - generic - easy to bat way stuff he gets from Alan. 

4 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

I think there's some fair observations in this. @BPAS mentioned that they'll try and get DR, MM on for an interview soon. It'll be a good question to directly ask; if SB was employed and used last summer, why was the overrall recruitment so unbalanaced?

 

I suspect I know what the answer is going to be though.

Spot on. 
 

3 hours ago, nzlatic said:

The way some are talking is as if DR is using statsbomb like top trumps, seeing a striker with 10/10 for shooting and signing him to a 3 year deal. 

Or some fans are - to quote Mellon ‘looking with their eyes’ 

The contradictions here are baffling. 
 

We have 6 centre backs. 
 

No right back 

No cover for Kitch 

We have 7 strikers 

One wide player. 
 

The reasoning is - Stats are used to gather information on required players and then passed to the manager. . .
 

Ok. . . 
 

So, it can only be one of one two things then, either the stats are passed onto the manager for players in positions we already have, (and weirdly it doesn’t produce stats for right backs)  or the manager is requesting players in positions we already have and the board keep sanctioning it. 
 

That isn’t guesswork- just look at the squad dynamic- it’s a mess. 
 

We then have Mellon changing his tune from saying - 

We have to respect the money the family have spent, and get the best out of what we’ve got. (Which he did to be fair, it’s gone downhill since he made the signings) 

To

I know what a good player looks like. 

We don’t have a right back. (Despite signing a RWB for his preferred shape at that time) 

We’ll have to wheel and deal in the summer. 
 

The football operation - which means, how we scout and recruit,  profile and age of player, sell on value, youth coming through- has all been poor. It really needs addressing this summer, and it needs to start with some acceptance that the club have spunked a lot of money for very little return. 

1 hour ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

You shouldn't have to sign a "clutch" of players in January if recruitment is good in summer

I totally agree with that. 
 

It’s really hard with Mellon because to be fair to him he is a scapegoat at times for what has been a poor football operation for the last two seasons. 
 

On the flip side- he knew the squad dynamic when he came in. He knew it was lopsided, and he has been given 7 chances to make some changes and it hasn’t really worked so far. He repeatedly said when he came in, that he had to respect the money that the family have already spent, and now is stating how difficult the summer will be. (I think he’s right on that score) 
 

I wonder whether he’s the right manager at the wrong time. If he had come in after shez, it would be very interesting to see what squad we had now. Whereas after the Unsy debacle he’s hamstrung, and ultimately that affects results . . but rightly or wrongly fans won’t look at the bigger picture if he isn’t winning. 
 

23 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Probably explains why people say a manager needs a few windows to properly sort a squad. 

If results allow them that opportunity. .

He gets this summer, if things don’t approve to agreed expectations he and shouldn’t get another window. 
 

Of his signings I’d say. 
 

Stones was class. 
 

Garner/Hammond/Conlon have been a mixture of ok/shown glimpses. 
 

Walker Dallas Sav haven’t worked out. 
 

One belter out of seven isn’t great, and as 55 says the ratio of good to ok to bad will need to really improve. 
 

7 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

I don't know about that. Stones was excellent and we were unlucky he got injured. Garner got some important goals when he came in. Conlon has been disappointing but has had some good games. Dallas and Walker, fair enough. But again, that's the risk you take recruiting in January. It was poor recruitment last summer that put us in that position in the first place.

Doesn’t that apply to any clutch of signings at anytime? 
 

There’s nothing to suggest that signing in the summer will mean more of them work. I’d say if you sign any group of players, a couple do really well, a couple do ok, and a couple don’t work out. 

33 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

You're clearly not listening,

Give over.  I’m challenging your point- on a football forum. 
 

34 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

As an aside, I've noticed that you sometimes forensically dissect posts in an attempt to trip people up, claiming that they are contradicting themselves, when often they are not. If that floats your boat, so be it, but life's too short.

I have no interest in winding you or anyone up, or tripping people up. That would be sad. I do enjoy talking Latics and I come back to what people type - it’s called debate, and if you read my last post I agreed with you on a couple of points. When I didn’t agree, I said why. 
 

44 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

Anyone would think we'd been transformed overnight from 30 years of being a mis-managed basket case to a model club, which should be doing much better on the pitch. We are at the very beginning of a long road to recovery under beneficent owners who are new to football and who will not get everything right but are hopefully learning as they go along.

Fine. I think we should be further along in lots of different ways on the football side by now,  but we’ll agree to disagree. 

 

47 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

You were happy to go along with MM as we rose up the table and got as high as 5th, and now, when it looks like the playoff push may be over, you seem to want to chuck your toys out of the pram and condemn him for "treading water" - fine, but I'll be more tolerant and wait to see what he achieves next season.

Nope. What I do is follow results, and when we’re winning- I’m delighted. I even defend poor football and very poor home form if overall he’s doing well- which he was. When we can’t buy a win I start to question why- which is completely normal.
 

Did you actually read my last post? 
 

I specifically said - this isn’t a sack Mellon thing. I haven’t ‘condemned him’ or thrown my toys out about him for treading water. I said it’s a reflection on what I see as a poor football operation and Mellon is only a part of that. I then went onto say I hope they have a meeting in the summer to clear the air or reset. 
 

55 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

If you in your infinite wisdom

Never claimed to be wise, nor trying to be clever, that’s a cheap shot. I think recruitment has been largely poor since they came in, you don’t. Fine. 
 

1 hour ago, Worcester Owl said:

I am happy to give MM a full summer window, and hope he won't be too restricted by the deadweight he inherited. 

Agreed, and I do think he will be restricted by what has been a poor football operation. Hopefully he can wheel and deal. 

4 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

I wasn't making a comparison - I'm not interested in Southend's situation though

I was talking about Southend- and how they done well in difficult circumstances, and how we have done poorly in good circumstances. You then said ‘you don’t think our board had it shit with the chuckle brothers’ if that isn’t comparing then what it is? If you’re not interested in Southend, and what can be achieved on a fraction of what we have- just ignore my post?

6 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

Maybe giving a guy a sensible amount of time to build something is an idea.

You say this. 

11 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

Results will determine his fate

Then this. (Which I agree with) 
 

No manager can build anything if results don’t meet expectation. He has said himself his target was the playoffs. He hasn’t don’t it. So far he’s failed- he might yet come good. Let’s hope so. 
 

15 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

Very few people questioned player recruitment at the start of the season (under Unsworth) or in January (under Mellon).

Eh? It was all we talked about. 
 

Unsworth -

Why no right back. 
Why no cover for Kitch.

Why no wide players other than green. 
Why do we keep signing strikers when we are short in midfield. 
Do we need 6 centre backs.

Mellon. 

Why no cover for Kitch. 
Why no wide players. 
Why sign a rwb for 3-5-2 then say he doesn’t have a right back. 
Why did we sign Garner

You may agree or disagree with the above but plenty were questioning the at times nonsensical recruitment decisions. 

22 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

This is a tough league to get out of, full stop, and patience is required.

I’m very fair in my expectations- 7th this season without promotion was solid progress. I don’t think that’s unreasonable or being impatient. 
 

12th to 10th is not solid progress, it’s treading water for a club with our budget. 

Just now, Worcester Owl said:

You don't think our board/owners have been working in a shit show, given what they inherited from the Chuckle Brothers?

 

They got the Unsworth appointment wrong, for which we can probably blame the Royles. They have now gone for an experienced manager, who has so far had just 28 league games - hardly more than half a season with no proper transfer window and a legacy squad that is clearly not one he would have wanted - to show what he can do. We were 22nd in the league when Unsworth left, and plenty on here said Thompson and Redfearn weren't the answer after three poor draws in a row. MM at least threatened to get us into the play-offs, and may still do.

 

But fine, sack him and let's start all over again next season. I sometimes wonder if as fans we get the performances we deserve.

Poor comparison.  Our owners moved us away from what Southend are still going through. . . 
 

The equivalent to Southend and Maher would be AL still being here and someone like Pete wild doing great job in horrible circumstances. 
 

Both our last two managers work for fabulous owners and a settled club. 
 

On your last paragraph - I wasn’t make a sack him point. Mellon is just a moving part in what has been a poor football operation for two seasons. 
 

Board decisions. 
Recruitmemt. 
Player performance. 
 

In my view things are disjointed on the football operation. With lots of contradictions. I hope in the summer there is a big meeting between the family, the board,  Mellon, and senior players to hold each other to account and have some honest conversations about where mistakes have been made. 
 

4 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

His post certainly is. Even by his standards, it's as nonsensical as it is doom-ridden.

Yeah,  I was specifically talking about his point regarding Southend. 
 

We keep hearing that it takes time, mistakes will be made, we can’t expect to much. . despite the club being in a fantastic position for success. And yet they’re working in an absolute shit show. . but have recruited well on a shoe string, have a good manager, and got the most from their tiny squad. What they achieved this season given the circumstances is excellent. 
 

Meanwhile we are aimlessly throwing money at the wall to see what sticks, and in comparison to them our whole structure of recruitment/getting the best from the players/consistency of performance put us to shame. 
 

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

You forgot to mention they’ve had the same manager since October 2021

Knew that was coming.

Southend really have embarrassed us. 
 

Awful owner.

Club in turmoil. 
 

Transfer embargo. 
 

Tiny squad, sometimes not able to name a full bench. 

Above us in the table 

Would be 5th without the point deduction. 

Us.

Brilliant owner.
 

Takeover nearly two years ago. 

Big budget - and spent a relative fortune. 
 

Massive squad that doesn’t have one contracted professional in certain positions. 
 

Finished 12th and now sat 10th. 
 

We are massively underachieving. 
 

14 minutes ago, GKing521 said:

It's totally and utterly embarrassing.

Shambles from board level to the playing staff. Everyone involved needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

The fact that numerous bin man teams are comfortably above us genuinely makes me feel unwell with the amount of cash we've thrown at these rank losers.

What's the solution? I have no idea, but I fear we will be at this level for many years and could become quickly comfortable as a non-league outfit. 

There’s no denying, that is embarrassing. 

Just now, League one forever said:

Yeah, good shout. 
 

Is there a way of protecting 16 - 18 years olds? The modern day equivalent of YTS? 
 

If not,  I’d give them all a small contract for a year. £150 a week or something. If they’re under contract we can protect the investment. 

If memory serves I think they can sign professional terms at 16. . . 

59 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

In terms of academy, I think we'd keep the Under 18's. It's likely to be the younger age group (U9-U16) that go surely...

Yeah, good shout. 
 

Is there a way of protecting 16 - 18 years olds? The modern day equivalent of YTS? 
 

If not,  I’d give them all a small contract for a year. £150 a week or something. If they’re under contract we can protect the investment. 

2 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

That's not just here, it's everywhere. Every manager in the modern day who has been given "time" has been given the time because they've gone in and won football matches. Wild was mentioned earlier - people point out he was given 3 years at Halifax. The reason he got 3 years is because he went in and immediately won games of football.

 

Flip side of that is Noble at Wealdstone. Gone in there, can't buy a win. Sacked. It isn't just an Oldham issue...

Bang on Paddy. 
 

We’re not impatient or strange or weird. 
 

Any club has a level of expectation- meet it and you get more time. 
 

Don’t and you’re under pressure. 
 

I’ll never understand give him time without merit. 
 

5 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

I'm not saying they aren't. He's been given time and patience at Altrincham. He wouldn't get that here

You can’t compare Guy. 
 

Alty and us have two totally different expectations and rightly so. 
 

Parky got time, because they were happy to consolidate for a few years. We want promotion asap. 
 

The better comparison is to say- would Mellon get time if he finished 7th 5th 3rd- and the answer is unequivocally- yes. 

This season he has failed to meet the boards and his own publicly admitted expectations. He needs to rectify that quickly. 

1 minute ago, nzlatic said:

Mellon should have enough behind him to not be fazed by the job. Might just need…. time!

Mmmm. 
 

I think he’s started to unravel, but let’s hope a break does him good. 

1 minute ago, nzlatic said:

This is Parkinson’s 4th season in the national league. He’s finished 17th, 14th, 17th and is now in the play offs. At a club that was part time til recently and probably had very little expectation from the fans or the board. 
 

Would he get that sort of time here? Would he be able to handle the pressure of a big club at this level? It’d be a massive punt. 

Good post. 
 

Mellon said that Lundy has struggled playing for a big club in the division, and he wasn’t alone. I think you’re right and that applies to managers as well. The challenge of big club in a small pond is too big for a lot of them. 
 

I know wasn’t this division. But the only two managers who I’ve felt didn’t seem fazed or under pressure, and consistently looked to galvanise was Dowie and Johnson, surprise surprise both left for bigger jobs. 
 

The rest fall into- come in with varying past records - look full promise, then quickly unravel citing- budgets, false promises, what they inherited, defending poor runs. After a while longer they look completely haunted in post match pressers. 
 

The closet I’ve seen to Dowie or LJ down here is Williamson, I don’t think anyone else touches him. (For up and coming, can handle a big club, doesn’t seem fazed) 

Note to all.
 

Eyrsey loved David Dunn because he was young and progressive. Rumour has it, he set up the first Oldham Athletic Ritchie Wellens Fan Club- but it was disbanded after relegation. 
 

His record on knowing a manager and getting the big calls right is unprecedented. 

25 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

You sound like an average bloke who's demanding the perfect blonde with big tits who will do all the housework and pay half the bills and will blow you off everyday to just drop in your lap.

Yeah. What’s your point. . ? 

3 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

No shit. 

All I’m saying is- it’s easy to advocate for time-  until results are poor.