League one forever

1 hour ago, deyres42 said:

Players shouldn't be forced into moves they may not want to make just because one manager doesn't fancy them.

Players have no problem forcing moves when it suits them, they can’t whinge if manager doesn’t fancy them and it’s move on or just train. It’s the nature of football, and works both ways. 

24 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

I get the impression it's easier to get Israel and Hamas to see eye to eye than @League one foreverand @nzlatic 

That’s not wholly true to be fair. (Not from my end anyway) He makes lots of points I agree with, and even if I don’t agree I enjoy the debate because he’s usually fair and balanced. 
 

In my view he’s to forgiving and understanding for the position we find ourselves in, he may think I’m to demanding and don’t accept the bigger picture enough. That’s life. It’s ok to disagree, be a bit boring if we agreed all the time.

5 minutes ago, AndyB2 said:

So who in our team actually needs to go? Rather than we need to strength in this department or that department, who is not up it? 

Needs it’s own thread that one.

15 minutes ago, AndyB2 said:

But it’s very hard to strike a balance as a football fan. It’s either amazing / very positive or a disaster. There’s not really  happy middle ground.

Exactly. 

5 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Did I? I try to only respond to things people say so if I’ve misrepresented what you’ve said somewhere then I’ll retract. 
 

This is what I think I’m right about… I think it’s the right thing to do to give Mellon proper time to change the squad. I wouldn’t say that I 100% think he will come good. I just think it’s right to give people the time and the resources they need to be a success in their jobs. Mellon has not had that yet. So I disagree with people calling for his sacking or even judging him in really strong terms yet. 
 

I also think it’s the right thing to do to give the board some slack with their decision making. To accept that they will get things wrong but that over time things will move forward. So harsh judgement there is premature in my opinion. 
 

That doesn’t mean that Mellon or the board are above criticism. Or that no one is allowed to say anything against them. Or we shouldn’t be expectant or demanding as a fan base. All of those accusations have been levelled at anyone who dares to suggest patience. But the language I heard yesterday at the game and on here for a while now is just so over the top. You’d think we were heading for oblivion. It’s making it for me the worst time I’ve ever had being a latics fan. Even when we were close to the brink under the last lot there was a togetherness among the fan base. Now it just seems like most fans are in a competition to be the most angry that things aren’t working yet. It’s really depressing.

 

And the worst thing is I don’t think it stops if we get promoted, only paused. I think the feeling will be the same until we hit the top 7 of league 1. Anything other than a constant upward movement will be seen as failure until we get to that level. I really hope I’m totally wrong about that one. 

That’s fine- you are willing to be patient with the board and Mellon for the reasons you mention. 
 

I disagree with that, for the reasons I’ve said previously.

I don’t want to be right, over the club doing well. If Mellon can sort it and the board get their act together - then happy days. We all want success. 

On the fans- I honestly believe we are no different to any other club. We sold over 4000 season tickets in the fifth tier. We have an expensive squad and a manager with a big reputation. We have won one game in 9 and seen our hopes not just dashed but completely shit on. Everybody is pissed off. I don’t condone the vitriol, and it’s not my bag but fans reflect society and everyone is different. I said this the other week, everybody- the manager, fans, board need a break from it all. 

2 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

We played between 5 and 7 at the back most weeks, we even travelled to Oxford yesterday and played McGahey on the toes of the defence because they need help and are shite, add to that we have a keeper whose fucking clueless about what's going on around the pitch and that's where I'd start the rebuild. You could make a case for Kitching and either Raglan or Hobson and that would be about it for me.

The defence would be helped if we played on the front foot more, we play 6/7 players defensively and invite teams on. 

20 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

What makes having a discussion on a message board really difficult sometimes is when people argue points you haven’t made because it makes it easier for them to be right.

Quite. . and you did the exact same to me. 

Are you telling me that you don’t think you’re right as well. . of course you do. Which is fine. 
 

It’s the nature of debate- two opposing views who both think their view is the correct one. We agree on a lot of things, some things we don’t. That’s life. 

11 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Chesterfield, County, Wrexham all did quite well with them or playing with width.

Agreed. 

Just now, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

The only alternative is to blow smoke up supporters' arses as DU was doing. The Emperors new clothes approach. That unravelled as quick as our gameplans do at home.

1 minute ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

I can't find much fault in MM's approach to interviews. He's being as diplomatic as possible, scarecly picks out a player for criticism publically and said pretty much what was on the tin. It's in striking contrast to someone like Marc White (who I admire in other ways by the way) or Luke Garrard (who I can't stomach) who week to week were regularly picking out negatives in players in post match pressers. That's certainly not how to handle pressure, demonstrated by Dorking and Boreham Wood's league positions.

Yeah, he doesn’t bring anyone up specifically to be fair. Although I’m not really questioning the interview - I enjoyed it, at least it showed he cared. I’m more looking at the impact on next season, and him looking in the mirror- because what he wants - he can’t have. 

1 minute ago, yarddog73 said:

Been saying the same myself, Kanu and Sinclair would be two straight away who'd make us better, try the young lad Atherton out wide it makes us a different beast with wide men and this is an area that's been completely neglected.

Didn’t he say Wingers have gone out of the game? 

Just now, O.A.F.C. said:

So are we meant to accept that 10th is a true indication of how good our squad is? 

No, not at all. 
 

This squad is more than good enough to finish at least 7th.
 

We’ve won 2 in 13.

If we had won 3 or 4 in 13 we’d still be in with a shout. 
 

In my view- the squad has underachieved but Mellon is putting it all on the players (despite saying he’s not above criticism) he needs to look in the mirror over the summer and ask why they’re not interested in anymore- because quite simply we can’t sack 20 players. 
 

4 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

Isn't that effectively what he has said?

Yeah, pretty much- which isn’t good for next season and getting the best out of those still here. 

5 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

Being told you aren't performing well enough should be good motivation, yes. Would you argue against that assessment?

 

What should he be doing, rubbing their heads and tell them they're doing a great job?

 

And let's not pretend Oldham fans need an excuse to get on a managers back

Come on Guy. 
 

The bottom line is, the players it would seem have no interest in playing for him at the minute. The players will ultimately be the ones who get us promoted, Mellon nor the fans can start a war with them. Otherwise we really are in big trouble. 
 

Mellon says- if you can’t change the player change the player. 
 

Then says - it’s really difficult because of the contracts. 
 

Which illustrates the point perfectly. 
 

He might as well say- I’ve tried, but they’re all shit, but I can’t move them on so god knows what will happen. 

4 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

Surely any professional would want to prove that they are good enough,  because they certainly haven’t this season. The ones who aren't prepared to do that can fuck off for the easy life somewhere like Kings Lynn.

I agree with you from a professional pride point of view, it should be the case. 
 

But it’s just not the reality. There will be contracted players in that squad next season who we can’t shift and have been told they’re not good enough this season.  If you were brought in to play after that- would you be at your best? 
 

The best case scenario is those players are at a minimum and aren’t involved in the match day squad. 
 

The worst case scenario is we still need some of them, because the budget won’t allow their replacement. 
 

Whatever happens in the summer, he needs to sit down with some players still here and make sure they’re on side. Otherwise they’ll just Jack it in again when things get tough, or he tell them some home truths. 

A lot of this squad will be here next season, they will put it in for Mellon next season after he’s said they’re not good enough? 

1 hour ago, JoeP said:

Can't argue with the interview.. He's being as honest as he can be. Didn't try to kid anyone. 

 

These players have failed under this manager and failed under the last manager. Unsworth tried to bluff his way through interviews, but Mellon is painting a more believable picture. 

 

The problem is we're stuck with a lot of them next year too. I can't see it getting any better. It's not a stretch to think Mellon's been given a dud hand - it seems even more dud than he initially thought. It would need an exceptional manager to get something out of this lot. So exceptional, such a manager probably doesn't exist. It's not worth rolling the dice by getting rid of Mellon. Give him time and see how it goes, but we've stitched ourselves up next season with the players we've signed and contracts we've handed out.

While I like his honesty- there does feel like a bit of retrospective arse covering Joe. 
 

These players that are so bad, had us 5th. They had top 3 form for a while. They had the best away form in the league for weeks on end. We didn’t hear any of this in Jan or early Feb.  Did he perform a miracle from Oct to Feb?? I’m not having that a lot of them are now suddenly shit. He says he’s not above criticism, but doesn’t like direct questioning of his methods. . he has to reflect and ask why they’ve down tools on him. Because that’s exactly what’s happened, they don’t look interested. Remember - You do not have to be good to finish 7th. 
 

The worry is,  he wheels and deals but the scars of this season and his approach with the players are still there. At no point can you sack a squad. The players will always win. 
 

If they stick with him, I think it could take two years to sort- and I don’t think the fanbase will have the stomach for it. 

56 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

If that's true, which it probably isn't, then surely we should be sacking each and every one of them for a total lack of professionalism?

You’re right it shouldn’t happen. . .
 

But it happens all the time at clubs, players don’t like the manager or style or how he talks to them, they down tools.

Who knows what’s happened on the dressing room- but when you’re the manager comes out and publicly says a lot of them aren’t good enough- I think you can safely say there’s trouble in the camp. 

13 minutes ago, Can Neil Redfearn Do It said:

You have to wonder if there's something self-fulfilling about Mellon apparently telling the board early doors that many players on long & expensive contracts lack quality and character. These same players had enough to turn around a bad start and 'cement' their place in the play offs. They had enough to be 2nd in the away results table. They had turned a corner under Thompson, Mellon picked up the baton and we were picking up points and looking up the table for weeks and months. The subsequent capitulation and its manner is a disgrace and there's something more to the story than bad players.

It’s very good point. 
 

The players keep hearing variations of - you’re not good enough- yet had us 5th in the table. Maybe they’ve grown tired of keep hearing they’re not good enough, and have downed tools. 

36 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Jesus. Where did I say that?! And I’m the one supposedly going to extremes!

You didn’t. I did- I was giving an example of how long we may wait with  your expectations, and the unrealistic nature of not expecting anything to happen in the first two years. 
 

38 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

You aren’t involved in the business but yet you’re talking as if you’ve got full visibility of every facet of the business, it’s targets and itssuccess/failures. Whereas in reality you’re looking solely at what is happening on the pitch. 

Eh? Neither are you, and yet you talk in absolute terms of how a football club works - when in reality you have  no idea. I’ve never claimed to know- I can only go what off DR says in public at fans forums, to OASF, to the pod - you then look and see how that affects what happens on the pitch. Which is our only barometer. So of course I’m looking at what happens on the pitch- it’s the sole reason why we bother supporting them. 
 

54 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

And yes the past almost certainly has an impact on footballing matters even after Frank came in. Our reputation for how we dealt with agents or other clubs for example, our reputation with players for not paying them. A new owner just doesn’t wipe all those things away immediately, it takes time to turn around. Our non existent scouting network. The facilities we could offer players. Our coaching infrastructure. All these things needed building from the ground up. You don’t get every decision on that journey right. 

No, sorry- a new owner does exactly that. Football is a very small world, and word very quickly gets out that Oldham have money - don’t seem to remember us struggling to give Scunthorpe 100k for nuttall and pay him good wages and deal with his agent. Agents will be falling over themselves to offer us players, why - because we pay good money, our recruitment and length of contract tell you that. Our scouting network was sorted in the first few months, and has produced nothing. Our coaching set up below first team is very good with muzza and chucks doing a great job with the youth. So that doesn’t wash. 
 

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

The football side of things need improving. What has gone wrong has to be understood and put right. Processes need to be improved. Personnel may need to change. But to say that what happened in the past has no lasting impact is nonsense. The same can be applied to Mellon. He’s had 6 months and made a few signings so the failure to reach the play offs is on his shoulders alone and so he needs sacking? I don’t agree. 

I actually think we’re agreed here. 
 

Mellon needs to take responsibility for his part, but he is not solely responsible for the mess we find ourselves in and it needs everybody The Rothwells - DR - the board - Mellon in the summer to tell some home truths. 

20 minutes ago, spanishfly said:

Well MM has nailed his colours to the mast in that interview. I`ve inherited many players who just aren't good enough. I`ve tried to improve them but they are incapable of improving to the standard I know is required. I know what is required and it's going to need some new players and for some contracted ones to be paid off. Over to you, Board.

 

It's an unusual interview, for sure, but I like it. I like honesty and it's been obvious for a while that the players are not busting a gut for him. It's a bloody critical summer this. I think the owner is going to have to be brave and trust MM in what he is saying. It's going to cost an awful lot more money than ever was anticipated to get us up, that's for sure.

 

Whover appointed DU (someone tells me it was Joe's recommendation not DR's?) AND sanctioned his player choices needs to be held accountable too.

 

 

Agreed, it felt like a watershed moment didn’t it. 
 

He said a lot of stuff there that can’t go back in the bottle. 
 

Don’t know what you think, but it felt to me like he was challenging the board - as if to say, it’s either me or them. Back me or sack me. 

6 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

If a business has been underfunded and mismanaged for a decade or 2, you don’t turn it around in less than 2 years just with good intentions and chucking some money at it. It’s not an excuse, it’s just not how business works. At all. 
 

We have new people in pretty much every position. All working together for the first time. Mistakes will happen. It can’t be avoided. Plans will be made and then changed. Take recruitment, our issues could be because the process was wrong last summer. So that could take time to fix properly, who knows? This is all perfectly normal though - it will take time to get the set up of the club working to its best in every department. More time than 2 seasons. 
 

Some people want to respond to adversity by torching everything and everyone and starting from scratch. I might be wrong but I don’t think that’s the way to go for long term health of the club. 

I disagree. 
 

When you wipe a company’s debt, give it multiple new staff and give it a very large cheque to move forward with - you want to see that business get results/ make improvements after two years.  What you don’t say is, don’t worry - I don’t expect anything for 5 - 10 years. What you allude to is the micro, what I am talking about is the macro. Recruitment, player profile and age, sell on value, contracts given, youth pathway- we have failed miserably. Furthermore all this ‘normalcy of business’ doesn’t happen at a lot of other clubs. Strange that.
 

You’re going to extremes again to validate your narrative. . . no one is saying torch it all. It’s a lot more simple  than that- and Mellon has started the ball rolling with that interview. 
 

Since Frank came in - the football operation has been and is a mess. Not because of what they inherited, but because they‘ve made poor decisions in the last two years alone. 
 

This is on DR, the board, and Mellon, - not to say sack them- but to say they have done a poor job and it needs addressing asap. As Mellon says some very honest conversations need to happen. 
 

7 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

19 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

In his post match interview he's pretty much saying what we are

Spot on. 
 

He’s saying it’s a mess, and he doesn’t escape criticism. 
 

Seems pretty bang on to me. 

11 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

There’s lots to fix, of course there is, but is that a massive surprise given what has happened to the club over the last 10/15 years? But no one gets time. It has to be quick or you’re out. 

There shouldn’t be a lot to fix. . . 
 

Frank fixed the legacy nearly two years ago.
 

We have one of the highest gates.
 

We have one of the best budgets.
 

But since Frank came in - decision after decision on the football side has been woeful. That’s nothing to do with Chris Moore, Simon Corney, or AL. There are clubs far far worse of than us, who manage their football much better. 
 

The culture of excuse has to stop, and people at the club need to take accountability and fans need to stop looking to blame things that happened years ago. 
 

23 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Wow! That post match interview!

 

https://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/Latics-Player/latest-videos/

I actually loved that. 
 

No hidden messages, no skirting around the edges. 
 

Just saying it as it is, and start those honest conversations need to happen asap. 
 

Just now, nzlatic said:

I stood there and listened to some fucking awful stuff today. Absolutely irrational negative bollocks. If I was James Norwood I would 100% be looking for another club this summer off the back of today. 
 

I don’t think I put any irrational positive bollocks on here but if you’ve found some I’ll happily address it. 

Fair enough. 
 

I talking about the much wider issues, not some our fans - who I agree shout / scream absolute bollocks at times.