My summarised take on Franchise Football

[leeslover]

I'm an Exile, like many MK fans and their kids. Now, I've posted in the past to the effect that if I were able to find a young lady down here persistently drunk enough or with a sufficient lack of taste to breed with me, I would obviously try all the bribes/lies/Chaddy the Owl/detention in hot airless cupboards treatment to make them support Latics. If, however, they wanted to support a local team (shudder, Palace, maybe Fulham or Chelsea from here) I would be gutted but would understand. But if it were Milton Keynes, I would be horrified and I would not take them, any more than I would if Little Johnny decided that bear-baiting was his favourite sport. Little Johnny would have to learn that it was wrong and that he wasn't allowed, even if he cried and cried and cried all night long, and his friends were allowed to go because nice Mr Winkleman gave them tickets. Little Johnny would, I hope, grow up a better person for being denied something on a moral basis.

 

What I would never be able to take would be explaining to a Wimbledon fan why I was letting LJ go to watch a side, letting him think that they were a real football team. The challenge is, after Oldham Athletic have been transformed into the Workington Red Devils, for you to imagine meeting some of their fans on the way to the game whilst you happened to be going that way. They would have the shifty, "looking at toes," air about them that those of us who went to the Hockey Stadium will recall of their "home," fans.

 

What do you say? "It's all worked out for the best, your town deserves a club and I wish you all the best. Just a shame how things worked out."

 

Nope. It's wrong.

[footy68]

So Andy, what are you saying, you don't like Dongs?

[BigfinLatic]

I'm an Exile, like many MK fans and their kids. Now, I've posted in the past to the effect that if I were able to find a young lady down here persistently drunk enough or with a sufficient lack of taste to breed with me, I would obviously try all the bribes/lies/Chaddy the Owl/detention in hot airless cupboards treatment to make them support Latics. If, however, they wanted to support a local team (shudder, Palace, maybe Fulham or Chelsea from here) I would be gutted but would understand. But if it were Milton Keynes, I would be horrified and I would not take them, any more than I would if Little Johnny decided that bear-baiting was his favourite sport. Little Johnny would have to learn that it was wrong and that he wasn't allowed, even if he cried and cried and cried all night long, and his friends were allowed to go because nice Mr Winkleman gave them tickets. Little Johnny would, I hope, grow up a better person for being denied something on a moral basis.

 

What I would never be able to take would be explaining to a Wimbledon fan why I was letting LJ go to watch a side, letting him think that they were a real football team. The challenge is, after Oldham Athletic have been transformed into the Workington Red Devils, for you to imagine meeting some of their fans on the way to the game whilst you happened to be going that way. They would have the shifty, "looking at toes," air about them that those of us who went to the Hockey Stadium will recall of their "home," fans.

 

What do you say? "It's all worked out for the best, your town deserves a club and I wish you all the best. Just a shame how things worked out."

 

Nope. It's wrong.

 

Its a good analogy, and I know where you are coming from.... however I cant help but thinking:

 

1. In 10 years time when by some fluke of fate results in people like us having sprogs - no-one will give a toss about MK Dons anymore...

2. There will probably be far bigger injustices in football by then than worrying about a team moving 60 miles away - european superleagues, half the teams going bust, Man City midle-east world series superbowl champions etc...

3. By then AFC Wimbledon will probably be back in the league, along with FC United, and no-one will give a crap....

 

I dont know... maybe i'm just a bit more pragmatic than most, but I think we are going to have to endure far worse if professional football is going to survive in this country - mergers, moves, bancrupcies, breakaway leagues - all these will have to be endured if you want to keep watching football... I think anyone who think the old days can remain are just deluded - and for me, I couldnt really care where Oldham are, or what form they exist in, as long as they survive... now that can be on a scale, from having a new stand, to moving a few council boundaries - who cares - this is a big business game and teams are going to have to adjust to survive... f it is the only way to ensure the survival of the professional club then so-be-it...

 

Think we will just claw on to the coat-tails of the new generation of football clubs with the TTA on board... however 40-50 or so clubs will soon become unsubstainable in the this football league, in this form...

[Guest sheridans_world]

I honestly dont see what the problem is. MK moved so they could be sustainable. They have a new ground and have just acheived promotion and are on the way up. Maybe its some of that hatred for Wimbledon thats still coming through?

 

As for the super-duper euro champion’s elite league, let them sod off. We dont need them! Then we can be champions of the world! (Well England.......maybe)

[Matt]

I think kids tend to support their family teams more often than not, I figure that exiles of lower league teams may have a problem with sustaining interest for their little ones - but I'm only speculating, someone will have to correct me if I'm out on that one...

 

Little Johnny would have to learn that it was wrong and that he wasn't allowed, even if he cried and cried and cried all night long, and his friends were allowed to go because nice Mr Winkleman gave them tickets. Little Johnny would, I hope, grow up a better person for being denied something on a moral basis.

 

However - I don't agree with this bit - and I'm guessing I'm very much alone on this issue, but if my lads were born in MK and they wanted to support their local team due to their disconnect with my team - I'd be gutted like you say, but I couldn't stop them from going. Not for the reasons given anyway - it looks like football fan sectarianism for a certain point of view.

 

It's just what I think anyway.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

I honestly dont see what the problem is. MK moved so they could be sustainable. They have a new ground and have just acheived promotion and are on the way up. Maybe its some of that hatred for Wimbledon thats still coming through?

 

What? Wrong wrong wrong. It's blasé attitudes to things like this in football which lets it get that way. Hatred for Wimbledon? Christ, people weren't so keen on their physical, long-ball game but they were about as hated as Fulham are now. Simon, please don't tell me you admire them for their shiny new ground, cups bought won and nouveau riche status?

 

I think anyone who think the old days can remain are just deluded - and for me, I couldnt really care where Oldham are, or what form they exist in, as long as they survive...

 

For me this isn't a case of "It was alright in the old days, leave it be". I fully realise football has to evolve but there are ways to evolve which shouldn't mean snatching away another club and moving it to another part of the world. Because of the fat cats being first to all the money and everyone under the Championship (urrgh, Division 2 please) fighting tooth and nail for the scraps that are left we have to evolve ourself and change things to survive the climate. It's football's global warming.

 

The money aspect in football is something we have little or no control over. More and more money just gets pumped in, that's the way it is. But franchise football is something the people could have prevented by not making Winkleman's sickening roadshow welcome (And I certainly don't mean anything violent here). It could have been stopped, or at least made the next franchise would-be owner think twice about ever doing it to some other team.

 

Anyway, it's clear most people just don't feel that strong about keeping football's traditions intact, sadly.

[BigfinLatic]

Anyway, it's clear most people just don't feel that strong about keeping football's traditions intact, sadly.

 

Think you are wrong there mate - the feeling ont he board is very much agains things such as MK Dons, with pretty much only me & S_W showing any regard for the concept of MK Dons - tha's fine and its good debate - however I think 99% of the people out there would rather see the 'traditions' of football kept in place...

 

The problem is that football chairmen, investors, TV bosses arent in that 'most people' camp - couldnt give a crap about 'the fan on the street' (remember that interview with the Citeh chairman a week or so back?)... my opinion is that we are going to have to accept a couple of 'evils' to preserve anything like the game we all know and love...

 

Think you are going to be put between a rock and a hard place soon - beacause a club like Oldham is going to have to choose between selling its soul (on a varying scale) to keep up with the joneses and remain pro... or become part of a semi-pro league and being excluded from the big money jamboree...

 

The TTA will get us to the top (ish) table - sure of that... but as I have said already we will need a shiny new ground, promotion, and a few shiny contracts with the fat-cats to give us a few bob.... otherwise Oldham athletic of division 6 (north west regional powerleague 4) semi pro football club aint far away...

[jimsleftfoot]

Think you are wrong there mate - the feeling ont he board is very much agains things such as MK Dons, with pretty much only me & S_W showing any regard for the concept of MK Dons - tha's fine and its good debate - however I think 99% of the people out there would rather see the 'traditions' of football kept in place...

 

The problem is that football chairmen, investors, TV bosses arent in that 'most people' camp - couldnt give a crap about 'the fan on the street' (remember that interview with the Citeh chairman a week or so back?)... my opinion is that we are going to have to accept a couple of 'evils' to preserve anything like the game we all know and love...

 

Think you are going to be put between a rock and a hard place soon - beacause a club like Oldham is going to have to choose between selling its soul (on a varying scale) to keep up with the joneses and remain pro... or become part of a semi-pro league and being excluded from the big money jamboree...

 

The TTA will get us to the top (ish) table - sure of that... but as I have said already we will need a shiny new ground, promotion, and a few shiny contracts with the fat-cats to give us a few bob.... otherwise Oldham athletic of division 6 (north west regional powerleague 4) semi pro football club aint far away...

 

Here here!! The problem is with many of the anti MK lot, is that there opinions are quite fundametalist. I am anti MK as many but from a very moderate viewpoint. I don't like them in the same way I dislike Wigwam, maybe a little (or a lot more) but I am going to MK Dons to give them flack and support my team. I just think the fundamentalists are fighting the wrong battle. Its a nice idea the boycott but its not going to acheive much and the game will still be sold down the same river its already been going down for the last 20 years because of the government, the FA and the Premiergreed. If you really want to have a go, start there, or really is that just not worth bothering about.

 

If you want to boycott MK why not boycott sky as well?

Edited September 11, 2008 by jimsleftfoot

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Think you are going to be put between a rock and a hard place soon - beacause a club like Oldham is going to have to choose between selling its soul (on a varying scale) to keep up with the joneses and remain pro... or become part of a semi-pro league and being excluded from the big money jamboree...

 

I've never been opposed to what the TTA are trying to do with OAFC and the ground developments. That's a completely different kettle of fish to Franchise football. Once BP is developed it will still in most ways stay the same. The route I take to BP won't change, the pubs I drink in won't change and the clubs name won't change. I can handle that because the soul is still there. There is no rock and hard place with us, but there would be should the TTA decide to flog it to a businessman who's keen on marketing Oldham Athletic to the hungry consumers of Northern France or the Middle East.

 

There's an absolute difference in selling your soul and simply enhancing the club's premises to expand our income. Once the club does sell its soul then in all honesty it'll be the last time I'll watch us. I'll probably go and watch Leigh Genisis instead. Go Gens!

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

If you want to boycott MK why not boycott sky as well?

 

If you're going to invade Poland, why not invade Russia as well?

 

Ah, right!

[edhunteruk]

Think you are wrong there mate - the feeling ont he board is very much agains things such as MK Dons, with pretty much only me & S_W showing any regard for the concept of MK Dons - tha's fine and its good debate - however I think 99% of the people out there would rather see the 'traditions' of football kept in place...

 

The problem is that football chairmen, investors, TV bosses arent in that 'most people' camp - couldnt give a crap about 'the fan on the street' (remember that interview with the Citeh chairman a week or so back?)... my opinion is that we are going to have to accept a couple of 'evils' to preserve anything like the game we all know and love...

 

Think you are going to be put between a rock and a hard place soon - beacause a club like Oldham is going to have to choose between selling its soul (on a varying scale) to keep up with the joneses and remain pro... or become part of a semi-pro league and being excluded from the big money jamboree...

 

The TTA will get us to the top (ish) table - sure of that... but as I have said already we will need a shiny new ground, promotion, and a few shiny contracts with the fat-cats to give us a few bob.... otherwise Oldham athletic of division 6 (north west regional powerleague 4) semi pro football club aint far away...

 

for me the only thing wrong with this whole wimbledon and mk dons thing is the way the fa handled it,and the fact they didnt make them start from non league.

 

if they had made them go down to conferance level i think the feeling of annimosity towards them would not be as strong.

 

i posted elsewhere yesterday about the state of football,and what i think will happen in the future.the game isnt the working mans game anymore,it hasnt been for a good few years,that is why the first rounds of the fa cup are so great,all the small teams trying to catch a big fish is still very much the fairytale it used to be.

 

the game as we know it has changed,the only time you used to play was saturday afternoon at 3pm,simply because thats when all the countrys workers finished for the weekend,and headed down to the grounds.

now we have saturday games at 11am,12pm 1:15pm 3pm 5:45pm,you have sunday games at various times,monday games tuesday games wednesday games even thursday games for european teams and other clubs even playing on friday nights......

 

for me this has lost its way and just made football a buisness and not the charismatic game it once was.

there will be a break away league soon consisting of the majority of the premier league coupled with the top european teams,and the money washing around inside that will be frightening.....that is when the fa need balls and to toatally restructure the leagues and games,re-introduce the 4 divisions and maybe bring in the scottish teams,let the greedy league do what they want,they should be made to stand alone as a seperate entity and as such have embargos placed upon them stopping them from buying our leagues assets on the cheap......

 

a lot of people are saying they have a problem with this fc united team,but i cant see what the problem is except for them being red...they have done it right and started off in the conferance leagues,and worked there way up,and i hoe they manage to get into the league proper as it will be just rewards for the hard work they have put in.and the reason they did it because they didnt like the frazer franchise at gold trafford.

[jimsleftfoot]

If you're going to invade Poland, why not invade Russia as well?

 

Ah, right!

 

Sorry don't understand your point. The only people I know who have invaded Poland in recent times are the Russians and the Germans, the latter did attempt to invade Russia as well.

 

Also I don't think Sky are going to throw bombs at us for boycotting them.

[leeslover]

If you want to boycott MK why not boycott sky as well?

Because one is a TV channel and the other is an illegimate stain on humanity.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Sorry don't understand your point. The only people I know who have invaded Poland in recent times are the Russians and the Germans, the latter did attempt to invade Russia as well.

 

Also I don't think Sky are going to throw bombs at us for boycotting them.

 

Oh dear. You've missed the point entirely jim. Yes, yes Sky will throw bombs at us. Put our tin hats on and dig in.

[Matt]

Because one is a TV channel and the other is an illegimate stain on humanity.

 

It's all a bit OTT for me this now, I'm out...

[jimsleftfoot]

Because one is a TV channel and the other is an illegimate stain on humanity.

 

Well I was correct about fundamentalists then ;)

[jimsleftfoot]

Oh dear. You've missed the point entirely jim. Yes, yes Sky will throw bombs at us. Put our tin hats on and dig in.

 

My point is people are making a massive thing of accusing the MKDons fans for being the worst things since sliced genocide yet they seem to not want to do really anything about the bigger issues that are killing football. Its like invading Belarus when Russia is the Problem.

 

The Premiergreed and FA are the main problems....funded via Sky (and other TV deals).

[leeslover]

Well I was correct about fundamentalists then ;)

I do try to avoid excessive self-moderation!

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

My point is people are making a massive thing of accusing the MKDons fans for being the worst things since sliced genocide yet they seem to not want to do really anything about the bigger issues that are killing football. Its like invading Belarus when Russia is the Problem.

 

The Premiergreed and FA are the main problems....funded via Sky (and other TV deals).

 

Sky's a different arguement entirely. You're the little chinese student in Tiananmen Square by locking horns with that. It's a battle that no-one is going to win but Sky. I hate the greedy league, yes it's the root cause of all evil in football but franchising is an growing evil that if we all just accept then it'll just become normality for clubs just to get liquidated, rebranded and relocated when someone wants a quick route into owning a league football club.

 

Anyway, like Rummy says; I'm out too. A severely thumping victory over those fake tossers on Saturday will be the only crumbs of comfort I'll be taking from all of this.

[jsslatic]

there will be a break away league soon consisting of the majority of the premier league coupled with the top european teams,and the money washing around inside that will be frightening.....

 

People have been saying this for over a decade. Call me naive, but it's not going to happen. The odd game abroad, well that's pretty much set in stone for the future. A European Super League? No chance. The real fans would get bored, give it a season and a half and Old Trafford would be a third empty...crowds will be on a downward spiral as 'natives' get tire and refuse to pay to watch it. If the stands empty, the spectacle will drop and people will switch off and go and watch football locally...i.e. the Football League and the ten or so teams that remained from the Prem...the backers would pull out and the former top teams will either die or tour Asia etc.

 

I really believe that a European Super League would be the death of the Big Four (Five/Ten) and not the death of all the other clubs.

[help_shiny]

If you want to boycott MK why not boycott sky as well?

 

 

I have. Allah Akhbar! Let us bathe in the infidels blood.

[jimsleftfoot]

Sky's a different arguement entirely. You're the little chinese student in Tiananmen Square by locking horns with that. It's a battle that no-one is going to win but Sky. I hate the greedy league, yes it's the root cause of all evil in football but franchising is an growing evil that if we all just accept then it'll just become normality for clubs just to get liquidated, rebranded and relocated when someone wants a quick route into owning a league football club.

 

Anyway, like Rummy says; I'm out too. A severely thumping victory over those fake tossers on Saturday will be the only crumbs of comfort I'll be taking from all of this.

 

Personally I don't think it has set a prescedent. I think it is viewed in the same way as how Leciester did well out of going into administration and I think the FL will probably use any reason to pull aways clubs golden share if they dont like it.

 

I do agree on one thing though, lets beat the fake tossers on saturday.

[jimsleftfoot]

I have. Allah Akhbar! Let us bathe in the infidels blood.

 

Putting the FUN into DA MENTALISM!!!

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

I'm an Exile, like many MK fans and their kids. Now, I've posted in the past to the effect that if I were able to find a young lady down here persistently drunk enough or with a sufficient lack of taste to breed with me, I would obviously try all the bribes/lies/Chaddy the Owl/detention in hot airless cupboards treatment to make them support Latics. If, however, they wanted to support a local team (shudder, Palace, maybe Fulham or Chelsea from here) I would be gutted but would understand. But if it were Milton Keynes, I would be horrified and I would not take them, any more than I would if Little Johnny decided that bear-baiting was his favourite sport. Little Johnny would have to learn that it was wrong and that he wasn't allowed, even if he cried and cried and cried all night long, and his friends were allowed to go because nice Mr Winkleman gave them tickets. Little Johnny would, I hope, grow up a better person for being denied something on a moral basis.

 

What I would never be able to take would be explaining to a Wimbledon fan why I was letting LJ go to watch a side, letting him think that they were a real football team. The challenge is, after Oldham Athletic have been transformed into the Workington Red Devils, for you to imagine meeting some of their fans on the way to the game whilst you happened to be going that way. They would have the shifty, "looking at toes," air about them that those of us who went to the Hockey Stadium will recall of their "home," fans.

 

What do you say? "It's all worked out for the best, your town deserves a club and I wish you all the best. Just a shame how things worked out."

 

Nope. It's wrong.

 

I'll never support "Oldham Athletic" after the cruel sell-out of Pine Villa. Up the Villa!

[edhunteruk]

People have been saying this for over a decade. Call me naive, but it's not going to happen. The odd game abroad, well that's pretty much set in stone for the future. A European Super League? No chance. The real fans would get bored, give it a season and a half and Old Trafford would be a third empty...crowds will be on a downward spiral as 'natives' get tire and refuse to pay to watch it. If the stands empty, the spectacle will drop and people will switch off and go and watch football locally...i.e. the Football League and the ten or so teams that remained from the Prem...the backers would pull out and the former top teams will either die or tour Asia etc.

 

I really believe that a European Super League would be the death of the Big Four (Five/Ten) and not the death of all the other clubs.

i cant say i share your view of it never happening...it already is to a certain extent with champions league football,all be it on a smaller scale.

 

i can see a league being made of the top 4 teams in england,france,spain,italy and germany.and i sincerely hope that if this does happen that the fa and fl get together to restructure what is left,you can still have 4 diviosions but incorporate the top conference league into it,and take a vote on whether or not to include scotland,but they cant go straight to the top of the tree,they have to earn there stripes so to speak.....what they then need to do is say to the breakawy leage that if you set this up and leave,you cant or wont be allowed back into the domestic set up for a minimum of 10 years.

 

they should then set a precedent that no club is allowed to field more than 4 foreign players in a game,after all its these foreign players that are forcing our own kids out of the game and youth acadamys to decline,and also the state of the current national team.