real Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 If like has been suggested there is trouble behind the scenes then the appointment of big Joe for the run in would be a great idea...it could just give the players and fans a boost when it is obviously needed. I loved Shez the player, but Shez the manager, ( For a whole lot of reasons ) has lost the respect of some of the players and I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of promotion the way things are at the moment. Even if Big Joe took over team affairs until the end of the season and managed to get us up he could then go back in to retirement or even stay on as D.O.F or whatever as his experience would be invaluable to a new manager. Even if Joe came and failed I don't think he would be blamed by the fans...it would be a massive boost just to have him here because if we just carry on as we are and do nothing, we won't be going up anyway.....simple as!! Wouldn't bringing JR in cause a massive split in the dressing room? Would the younger players (bar taylor) regard this as odd, bringing in JR? - what is he to them? This is like a Mills and Boon move, all nice and sweet for the fans, but what effect will it have on the players? Is it really relevant to them as a step forward or would they just see it as a stop-gap appointment, and be waiting to see who follows, thus creating uncertainty at the worst time of the season? nah, it's a very bad idea. If shez must go, (when we are in our 3rd consecutive season finishing in the top 8) then it must be a new full appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfOAFC Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Bring back Royle yeah, it's that simple isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delfer Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Like a good number of owtb posters, I have given the manager a lot of latitude, believing that due to his standing he was entiteld to the end of the season. However, with the tools that he has been given by TTA, I believe that we should be hanging on the shirt tails of Leicester. The players have proved time and again this season that they can at least match any team in this division. What they have lacked is the prearation to deal with the teams who are not as good, but who come with an organised game plan. Lessons have not been learnt. So, it's time for a change, and I don't say that in frustration or anger. We are still in with a shout and we shouldn't change for the sake of change. What we need is a man who can take us on in the last 10 games. IMO that man is Royle. He is currently free and I believe that made an offer would not turn us down in what would be a swan song to his career. He started at BP and the chance to finsih with 2/3/4 years, get us up and give us stability would be a challenge he would be prepared to take on. Come on TTA you know it makes sense it's over to you. Pleassssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssse. Cheers, Harry Edited to add poll (1st poll ever so hope it doesn't flop) Harry I'm surprised at you, I thought you were one of the voices of reason on here so before replying I've had a good think about things. And i still reckon that this is an over-reaction for the following reasons: 1. This decision goes against the priciples that Joe stands for, in a nutshell he wouldn,t come. Remember how long he had learning the trade before success came? 2. TTA know that we would be the laughing stock of football. In the 2 live games this season both analysts have commented on the excellent job Shez has done with the money available. 3. The poll is meaningless. There is a massive silent majority who do not use this or other boards to vent their feelings. Trust me if it came to a proper test of all the fans then it would be a no brainer - Shez to stay, 4. The real debate should be if we don't go up does Shez deserve another contract, I reckon that wiuld be 50/50 Stay positive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delfer Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I'd prefer to have any of Royle, Ritchie or Dowie all of whom are proven better managers than Shez. And just what has Andy Ritchie achieved as a gaffer? Be careful, someone last night pointed out on here that Shez has the 4th most succesful Latics record ever. And Saint Andy (nice guy though he is) isn't above him! Don't mistake him being a good player for a good gaffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 yeah, it's that simple isn't it. So you take 3 words out of my posts on this thread and use that against me. Wow! Read my posts in full. I suggested Royle because 1) he knows the club inside out, 2) has a track record of success 3) He is available 4) Would provide an initial spark to most fans and possibly the lapsed supporters. So no its not that simple, but better than any argument you have put forward in the debate. If however you want to put something more "simple" forward, I would be interested to hear. By the way, if you care to read any of my previoius 400+ posts, you would see that I would normally be termed as a "happy clapper." The simple fact is that I have majpr concerns about the future of the club and in those circumstances, I believe that is more important than support in the (very) short term for the current manager. Cheers, Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 1. This decision goes against the priciples that Joe stands for, in a nutshell he wouldn,t come. Remember how long he had learning the trade before success came? Probably right. 2. TTA know that we would be the laughing stock of football. In the 2 live games this season both analysts have commented on the excellent job Shez has done with the money available. Do you really believe most live tv analysts know what the hell they're talking about at this level. People who watch Latics week in, week out, know better than TV analysts. There is a case for keeping Shez and a case for ditching him. The views of Peter Beagrie et al shouldn't influence it. 3. The poll is meaningless. There is a massive silent majority who do not use this or other boards to vent their feelings. Trust me if it came to a proper test of all the fans then it would be a no brainer - Shez to stay, All polls on here are meaningless. But the debate around them isn't. I don't think it is a no brainer anymore. 4. The real debate should be if we don't go up does Shez deserve another contract, I reckon that wiuld be 50/50If we don't go up he's finished. If we sneak up by luck more than judgement I'd still be very cautious about offering him a new deal. But I think the club would. Stay positive! Wish I could. But reality is overpowering the optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 Harry I'm surprised at you, I thought you were one of the voices of reason on here so before replying I've had a good think about things. And i still reckon that this is an over-reaction for the following reasons: 1. This decision goes against the priciples that Joe stands for, in a nutshell he wouldn,t come. Remember how long he had learning the trade before success came? 2. TTA know that we would be the laughing stock of football. In the 2 live games this season both analysts have commented on the excellent job Shez has done with the money available. 3. The poll is meaningless. There is a massive silent majority who do not use this or other boards to vent their feelings. Trust me if it came to a proper test of all the fans then it would be a no brainer - Shez to stay, 4. The real debate should be if we don't go up does Shez deserve another contract, I reckon that wiuld be 50/50 Stay positive! Accept the point you make, however as I say in post no. 30 I have other major issues that override my usual more pragmatic approach to support of the general priciples. Whilst I don't believe some of the nonsense sprouted about losing the dressing room (and believe me he hasn't) after the dark days of 2003 I vowed that I would never again think purely of the short term in terms of OAFC and that is where I am coming from. In other times (i.e. a sound ecomomy both here & the USA) I would continue to support the current manager as JR himself took longer to achieve ultimate success. Although JR has always said he was successful in year 1, which was correct, and then avoiding releagtion in years 2 & 3 was also success in view of the major financial problems we faced at that time. I hope you see my point. Regards, Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delfer Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Accept the point you make, however as I say in post no. 30 I have other major issues that override my usual more pragmatic approach to support of the general priciples. Whilst I don't believe some of the nonsense sprouted about losing the dressing room (and believe me he hasn't) after the dark days of 2003 I vowed that I would never again think purely of the short term in terms of OAFC and that is where I am coming from. In other times (i.e. a sound ecomomy both here & the USA) I would continue to support the current manager as JR himself took longer to achieve ultimate success. Although JR has always said he was successful in year 1, which was correct, and then avoiding releagtion in years 2 & 3 was also success in view of the major financial problems we faced at that time. I hope you see my point. Regards, Harry You've confused me there pal! You're talking about year 1 at the top level? What about all the 80's?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 You've confused me there pal! You're talking about year 1 at the top level? What about all the 80's?? No sorry for the confusion. I am talking year 1 of Royle's reign i.e. season 82-83 etc. Hope that clarifies. Cheers, Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 And just what has Andy Ritchie achieved as a gaffer? oh i dont know maybe got barnsley promoted ! from this very division hmmmmmmmmmm must be crap then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 another point, for many of the early years or Royle's reign, as he stated in his autobiography, the club was selling to survive and the budget was low. Sheridan has been given a promotion budget which is easily in the top 10 of the league. Might not have the biggest budget but it most certainly is not a bottom 6 budget, as some on here seem to think it is, and it is most certainly not 'peanuts'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) And just what has Andy Ritchie achieved as a gaffer? Be careful, someone last night pointed out on here that Shez has the 4th most succesful Latics record ever. And Saint Andy (nice guy though he is) isn't above him! Don't mistake him being a good player for a good gaffer. What has Ritchie achieved? Promotion on a shoestring with Barnsley. Edit - oops, didn't see Peanuts post saying the same thing. Edited March 8, 2009 by slurms mckenzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Although I would not be in favour of Andy Ritchie returning here as manager, re him being a good gaffer, would like to add that I don't think any other manager would have kept us in league 1 on the shoestring budget we had in 1998/1999. Although on the flipside, he did have a bloody good wage budget at Huddersfield and didnt manage to do anything remarkable there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otid Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 The sentiment is nice, but the facts are that Royle ain't no miracle worker. How he did what he did when he came here first time around, was by spotting talented players who were surplus to requirements elsewhere and playing them to their strengths. There are just far too many clowns in the present set up who Royle would never have signed in a million years and we're not in a position (even if cash were available) to start rebuilding the team at this end of the season. Frankly, it's a pipe dream....albeit an entertaining one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delfer Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 What has Ritchie achieved? Promotion on a shoestring with Barnsley. Edit - oops, didn't see Peanuts post saying the same thing. Here are the facts - quite interesting! Andy Ritchie Team From To Record G W L D Win % Oldham Athletic May 7, 1998 October 31, 2001 179 59 75 45 32.96 Barnsley March 4, 2005 November 21, 2006 88 29 28 31 32.95 Huddersfield Town April 11, 2007 April 1, 2008 51 22 24 5 43.14 John Sheridan Oldham Athletic 1 June 2006 Present 144 59 44 41 40.97 Most agree that he was unlucky at Latics where he had a similar record as at Barnsley. But still not as good as Shez until he went to Huddesfield! Apparently at Barnsley he was accused of not spending money! In fairness probably not a lot to choose between them although I firmly believe in giving a Manager time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) No Flytrap I won't. I've supported this club for 40+ years, gone all over the country watching them. I don't boo the team, I don't slag players off like some kn*bs, I don't leave games early, I'm passionate about everything OAFC. I supported Shez's appointment and still believe at the time it was the right thing to do after the Talbot and M**re appointments. However, I am now of the opinion that a change is needed, not because JS is a crap manager because that is not the case. But because I now firmly believe that he will not get us promoted this season and financially that will be disastrous next season, when the economic crisis in the country and in America will have a severe impact on our budget. Yes other clubs face problems, but ours are 2 fold. The problem here will affect all clubs, but the problems in America will restrict the income provided by TTA and therefore reduce our budget even more. Thats why it is so important to get up this season, becuase promotion would bring bigger gates and add over £2 million more in TV income and give us a chance to stabalise at a higher level like Blackpool and Doncaster. Do you think that JS can achieve this? If so great if not, it is likely to mean more than 1 more season in this league with attendances plummeting and the consequent cut in player budget reducing further our chances of achieving promotion. My biggets wish is that if TTA stick with JS, he gets us up. He was a good player for us and very responsible for us not being relegated when Ritchie brought him in and I would love him to succeed. However IMO I cannot see him doing it. Only my opinion like. Cheers, Harry I'm undecided about the manager question, but that is an excellent post. What is at stake right now is the kind of future we want for the club. Edited March 8, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) TTA know that we would be the laughing stock of football. In the 2 live games this season both analysts have commented on the excellent job Shez has done with the money available. Not commenting on Sheridan, but the fact is that most of the 'analysts' don't know what they're talking about on most issues and certainly know nothing about the money available to Sheridan or the internal affairs of any club. Edited March 8, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Accept the point you make, however as I say in post no. 30 I have other major issues that override my usual more pragmatic approach to support of the In other times (i.e. a sound ecomomy both here & the USA) I would continue to support the current manager as JR himself took longer to achieve ultimate success. The reason the club and the rest of us are emboiled in this crisis is that the economy hasn't been at all sound for at least thirty years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLH1993 Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Im am a blindly optomistic happy clapper. however, something really weird happened yesterday (it did against hereford aswell) - id watched the game, and afterwards, I just wasnt arsed. Its like iv resigned myself to the fact that were not going up. Its frustrating because weve got a good enough team - we shouldve maintained a top 3 position all season. I was very shez in, until i realised we might be able to have promotion on the cards once more if we shake things up. I'd love to see for myself the things i only hear about with royle at the club. But if we're being realistic, hes not gonna come. I'd be mortified if we appointed jim gannon as many people on here have touted, but i think Ian Holloway would be a good shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I'd be mortified if we appointed jim gannon as many people on here have touted I would like to know why? I can see a couple of weaknesses but a hell of a lot of documented success. If we had a vacancy (which we don't) why would you not want Jim Gannon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 maybe we should get big joe back as director of football and help shez out too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delfer Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Not commenting on Sheridan, but the fact is that most of the 'analysts' don't know what they're talking about on most issues and certainly know nothing about the money available to Sheridan or the internal affairs of any club. Whereas of course you do? More than Beagrie & Birtles who have spent their working lives in football?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Whereas of course you do? More than Beagrie & Birtles who have spent their working lives in football?? I never made any claims as to myself, did I? It doesn't matter what Beagrie and Birtles have or haven't done-they can still know precisely nothing about the budget at BP. Their like just repeat what gets said elsewhere. Most football pundits are on the gravy train, spouting the same half-truths, rumour and commonplace drivel you can find in the sports pages of the Mirror and Sun, and are no better at analysing a game than the average supporter. It's better than having to get a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) Whereas of course you do? More than Beagrie & Birtles who have spent their working lives in football?? Delfer, I'm not one to agree with Corporal and if you searched back 2 to 3 months on here you will find that I vowed not to reply to any of his future posts on the basis that he always has to have the last word and ususally in a negative way, so as a "happy clapper"I saw no need to feed his habit. However, to use Beagrie and Birtles to discredit his point is not IMO helpful to your cause. I like both as commentators and they were of course decent players, but like Shearer and Hansen on motd, neither have done anything other than be players or pundits (although I understand Beagrie did a limited amount of coaching at Scunthorpe.) They talk a good talk, but they don't and never have had to do what a manager has to in producing a competetive team, i.e. scoutting coaching, formulating tactics, signing players, understanding budgets, dealing with club execs and owners etc, etc etc. Whilst both have spent their working lives in football, it is in a limited capacity and the point they make is easy sat on a tv gantry or in a studio. We can all agree that Shez has done a decent job based on our crowds, but do Beagrie and Birtles really know what additional financial support TTA have added to the managers pot? I suspect they don't Cheers, Harry edit: Dam he beat me to it Edited March 8, 2009 by Harry Dowds Green Shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Jim Gannon. God No No NO no NO no NO no NO NO NO NO NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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