John Sheridan for Ireland

[wiggy0406]

I am in awe of John Sheridan, but unsure as to whether this is luck or skill!!

As a player, he was majestic. He was a magic midfielder for Ireland, and I was so delighted when he signed for Oldham, to keep the Irish quality connection alive - Milligan, Irwin, Kelly. I know there have been a few doughnuts recently!!

 

However, I know he played under many club managers, I think his loyalty, blind loyalty, to some players, has been his downfall. He seems to have a Jack Charlton like loyalty and an ability to get the best out of very mediocre players. When you look at the results he achieved, over his relatively short tenure, he did miracles, although I don't know whether to applaud his ability to get the best out of these players, or to deride the stupidity of the players he stayed loyal to! When you look at some of the players he signed, or kept hold of, I think the guy was genius. I'm not sure as to the background of some, but he was involved in Trotman, Allott, Fletcher, Crossley, Hughes and the left back from Chelsea, as well as many more. I know he was also involved in bringing soem lemons to Boundary Park also, but he did try to bring in decent loan players when he could and I think he got the best out of the players he had - where are those players that left, and thought they were better then Oldham?? None seem to have been particularly successful since except perhaps Porter (all the worse). He got Davies and Hughes to score goals, Trotman was class, he even got Rubens Hazell to look half decent, which was something, as I think this guy is the worst centre half, I have ever seen!!

 

I would love to see a return to the glory days of JR, or at least an Oldham team that can try to score as many, or more, than it concedes, and I do think Joe is the man to do it, but unfortunately, there is serious surgery required, to get to a stage where we can be challenging to get out of League 1. Not sure we have the funds to do this anymore, but a return to Scandinavia is definitely needed.!! Stam and Hazell must go!

[oldhamathleticmad]

Although I agree with the majority of your points raised I must disagree on the Hazell thing, Rueben Hazell has been by far one of the most consistent, impressive players we have had all season. He's has been top notch and easily in contention for player of the season.

[wiggy0406]

Yeah, I think I posted this topic to see what would come back on Hazell. I have to admit, that living in Ireland I have only seen a couple of Oldham games live, and am dependent on the highlights that are provided by Latics world. Maybe the highlights are incorrect and do not do justice to the relevant players, but having reviewed the depressing scenes of the last 8 games, as well as what I saw and objectively concluded earlier in the season from the highlights, Hazell is not a competent centre back. For most of the goals he is either missing or has made a mistake. I think he could be better utilised as a striker in the mould of Heskey, and that may be an option, because he is an honest player, but he is not Centre back material. He does not ever appear to have the right position or anticipation for runners.

[oldhamathleticmad]

Yeah, I think I posted this topic to see what would come back on Hazell. I have to admit, that living in Ireland I have only seen a couple of Oldham games live, and am dependent on the highlights that are provided by Latics world. Maybe the highlights are incorrect and do not do justice to the relevant players, but having reviewed the depressing scenes of the last 8 games, as well as what I saw and objectively concluded earlier in the season from the highlights, Hazell is not a competent centre back. For most of the goals he is either missing or has made a mistake. I think he could be better utilised as a striker in the mould of Heskey, and that may be an option, because he is an honest player, but he is not Centre back material. He does not ever appear to have the right position or anticipation for runners.

 

As I said I don't go often put prob more than you! lol. I will hold my hands up and say I am wrong if the majority of ppl on here agree with you but in my opinion he has been a very impressive centre half. I will agree he has been caught out on a few occasions for goals but he is defo up there as one of JS best signings, very impressive.

[opinions4u]

However, I know he played under many club managers, I think his loyalty, blind loyalty, to some players, has been his downfall.

Reading between the lines, I think indiscipline around matchday build-up and the dressing room as a whole has been his downfall.

 

He seems to have a Jack Charlton like loyalty and an ability to get the best out of very mediocre players.

I feel that his ability to get the best out of anybody in the team was a massive failing.

 

When you look at the results he achieved, over his relatively short tenure, he did miracles

6th (when he threw away automatic promotion) - nah, no miracle

8th with the kids - decent effort, did better with the kids in the latter part of the season

This season - dreadful tailing off, certainly no miracle

 

To be honest, I think he has shown that he can't get experience players to play near the top of their ability. Or as a team.

 

When you look at some of the players he signed, or kept hold of, I think the guy was genius.

Please bare with me. I have just spluttered my cornflakes all over my laptop.

 

Trotman, Allott, Fletcher, Crossley, Hughes and the left back from Chelsea.

Your list is limited for a 3 year reign, somebody may remind me who Fletcher is. Bertrand was picked up for 3 months because of a failure to recruit a left back in the summer months. An issue to still be addressed. Hughes was a great way to get a striker on the cheap. I doubt very much that Sheridan had much to do with it as a signing other than to agree to somebody elses idea. I like Allott, but he's been part of a midfield that lacks bite and creativity and it all too often over-run.

 

he did try to bring in decent loan players when he could

He brought in loan players because he showed a distinct lack of faith in his squad this season. I still believe we would be in the top 6 if he had perservered with Alessandra and Hughes. He would still have a job.

 

and I think he got the best out of the players he had

This post is getting more and more bizarre. He failed to get anywhere near the best out of his players.

 

where are those players that left, and thought they were better then Oldham?? None seem to have been particularly successful

Porter, Wellens playing in the Championship. Kilkenny has been very much part of the Leeds revival since getting back in the side.

 

He got Davies and Hughes to score goals, Trotman was class, he even got Rubens Hazell to look half decent, which was something, as I think this guy is the worst centre half, I have ever seen!!

We rarely scored 2 goals in the same game when Davies and Hughes were on the pitch together. One thing Shez failed to build over the last two seasons was a strike partnership. A Howard/Fryatt. A Mackail Smith/Boyd/McLean. A Bechio/Beckford. He had one that was delivering and broke it up with a long list of unfit loanees. Trotman was class, but why is there only one Trotman that could attract a £500k fee over 3 years? Failure of management to develop players perhaps? Hazell would be one of my first names on the team sheet over the last 2 seasons. I'd probably drop him for a couple of games now as he's made some howlers lately. But form is temporary.

 

Shez showed promise. He was backed by the owners. He didn't deliver.

 

[IsleOfWightBlue]

Reading between the lines, I think indiscipline around matchday build-up and the dressing room as a whole has been his downfall.

 

 

I feel that his ability to get the best out of anybody in the team was a massive failing.

 

 

6th (when he threw away automatic promotion) - nah, no miracle

8th with the kids - decent effort, did better with the kids in the latter part of the season

This season - dreadful tailing off, certainly no miracle

 

To be honest, I think he has shown that he can't get experience players to play near the top of their ability. Or as a team.

 

 

Please bare with me. I have just spluttered my cornflakes all over my laptop.

 

 

Your list is limited for a 3 year reign, somebody may remind me who Fletcher is. Bertrand was picked up for 3 months because of a failure to recruit a left back in the summer months. An issue to still be addressed. Hughes was a great way to get a striker on the cheap. I doubt very much that Sheridan had much to do with it as a signing other than to agree to somebody elses idea. I like Allott, but he's been part of a midfield that lacks bite and creativity and it all too often over-run.

 

 

He brought in loan players because he showed a distinct lack of faith in his squad this season. I still believe we would be in the top 6 if he had perservered with Alessandra and Hughes. He would still have a job.

 

 

This post is getting more and more bizarre. He failed to get anywhere near the best out of his players.

 

 

Porter, Wellens playing in the Championship. Kilkenny has been very much part of the Leeds revival since getting back in the side.

 

 

We rarely scored 2 goals in the same game when Davies and Hughes were on the pitch together. One thing Shez failed to build over the last two seasons was a strike partnership. A Howard/Fryatt. A Mackail Smith/Boyd/McLean. A Bechio/Beckford. He had one that was delivering and broke it up with a long list of unfit loanees. Trotman was class, but why is there only one Trotman that could attract a £500k fee over 3 years? Failure of management to develop players perhaps? Hazell would be one of my first names on the team sheet over the last 2 seasons. I'd probably drop him for a couple of games now as he's made some howlers lately. But form is temporary.

 

Shez showed promise. He was backed by the owners. He didn't deliver.

 

Excellent response.

 

For me Sheridan failed because he failed to manage - I look back on the players he had and there were certainly enough that were good enough to get us promoted. He without doubt also made a few errors of judgement too but he had the backing of the board and, for a long long while the backing of the fans.

 

However, Mr Sheridan was not Mr Sheridan he was ''Shez'' from all accounts and from everything I have heard and when I have heard players speak to him it seems to me that he could not make that real transition from player to Manager. He remained ''One of the lads''

 

If you do not distance yourself from the team then you do not get their respect and therefore its very difficult to invoke on the pitch what you want to achieve in your head. I think its always difficult when you play in a team then, become the manager, to then have to tell the guys you used to have a beer with that they were getting dropped, going to play in a different position, going on loan or even being released. How many players that were performing below par kept their places in the team because they were close mates of Sheridan, I dont know but its conceivable that happened at times.

 

Your first day as a Manager should be to call the whole squad in and spell out the status quo - I really dont believe that was ever done. ''I am now not your team mate I am your Manager, there are going to be a few changes to the way we play, that may well piss some off you off but its not personal, its just the way things need to be'' would have been a good opening statement. I think it was more like ''Ok lads, on the pitch lets have a good work out and then we can all have a pint''

 

I think in years to come Shez will look back and think (like many of us do about our working lives) If only I knew then what I knew now. I do think he will be a good manager and in a new club where he doesent know the players then he will have the opportunity to invoke his style and ideas while keeping that one step away

Edited April 19, 2009 by IsleOfWightBlue

[Stevie_J]

I think credit for Trotman should really go to Philiskirk.

[opinions4u]

I think in years to come Shez will look back and think (like many of us do about our working lives) If I knew then what I knew now. I do think he will be a good manager and in a new club where he doesent know the players then he will have the opportunity to invoke his style and ideas while keeping that oen step away

Shez will manage again.

 

He may well be more successful elsewhere, without that link to the dressing room.

 

Time will tell.

 

He frustrated me because his mistakes rarely seemed to be learned from.

 

Despite current results, it is obvious to me that Royle is working out who is worth keeping and who should be ditched. I'd be more worried if I was being selected at the moment. In half a dozen cases, if he's playing you he's not convinced you should be there.

 

It's a policy that could pay big dividends next season.

 

[oafc1955]

Excellent response.

 

For me Sheridan failed because he failed to manage - I look back on the players he had and there were certainly enough that were good enough to get us promoted. He without doubt also made a few errors of judgement too but he had the backing of the board and, for a long long while the backing of the fans.

 

However, Mr Sheridan was not Mr Sheridan he was ''Shez'' from all accounts and from everything I have heard and when I have heard players speak to him it seems to me that he could not make that real transition from player to Manager. He remained ''One of the lads''

 

If you do not distance yourself from the team then you do not get their respect and therefore its very difficult to invoke on the pitch what you want to achieve in your head. I think its always difficult when you play in a team then, become the manager, to then have to tell the guys you used to have a beer with that they were getting dropped, going to play in a different position, going on loan or even being released. How many players that were performing below par kept their places in the team because they were close mates of Sheridan, I dont know but its conceivable that happened at times.

 

Your first day as a Manager should be to call the whole squad in and spell out the status quo - I really dont believe that was ever done. ''I am now not your team mate I am your Manager, there are going to be a few changes to the way we play, that may well piss some off you off but its not personal, its just the way things need to be'' would have been a good opening statement. I think it was more like ''Ok lads, on the pitch lets have a good work out and then we can all have a pint''

 

I think in years to come Shez will look back and think (like many of us do about our working lives) If only I knew then what I knew now. I do think he will be a good manager and in a new club where he doesent know the players then he will have the opportunity to invoke his style and ideas while keeping that one step away

 

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with this theory of Shez being a better manager at a new club where he doesn't know the players.

Yes he will have learned from his experience here but you can't blame it on the fact he simply new the players as former teammates!!

 

Looking at the team he left us with....How many of this lot has he signed since he became manager?

 

Crossley, Fleming, Gregan, Hines, Stam, Jones, Allott, Whittaker, Maher, Lee, Stephens, Goldbourne, Kabba, Add to that list the likes of Hughes, O'Grady, Davies, and Kalala and a lot of players who he's signed and let go already...This was his team and there can be no excuses.

 

Perhaps the one of the boys culture may have come from within the backroom staff and has nothing at all to do with the players!!!

[daznathe]

Despite current results, it is obvious to me that Royle is working out who is worth keeping and who should be ditched. I'd be more worried if I was being selected at the moment. In half a dozen cases, if he's playing you he's not convinced you should be there.

 

It's a policy that could pay big dividends next season.

 

definatley the case. im hoping that his greegan bumming was a ploy, make him feel safe and play how he usually does..

[IsleOfWightBlue]

I'm not sure I agree with this theory of Shez being a better manager at a new club where he doesn't know the players.

Yes he will have learned from his experience here but you can't blame it on the fact he simply new the players as former teammates!!

 

Looking at the team he left us with....How many of this lot has he signed since he became manager?

 

Crossley, Fleming, Gregan, Hines, Stam, Jones, Allott, Whittaker, Maher, Lee, Stephens, Goldbourne, Kabba, Add to that list the likes of Hughes, O'Grady, Davies, and Kalala and a lot of players who he's signed and let go already...This was his team and there can be no excuses.

 

Perhaps the one of the boys culture may have come from within the backroom staff and has nothing at all to do with the players!!!

 

 

I think that could be the case ...Im open to that but I still think his big failure was not keeping a distance from the players ....was in the players lounge so many years ago and the players were there and Joe was talking with Mr Brierly ..Earl Barret needed to pass by and I heard him say ''Excuse me Mr Royal''

 

I almost fell over -- I couldnt see a player being as respectful to Shez hahaha

Edited April 19, 2009 by IsleOfWightBlue

[oafc1955]

I think that could be the case ...Im open to that but I still think his big failure was not keeping a distance from the players ....was in the players lounge so many years ago and the players were there and Joe was talking with Mr Brierly ..Earl Barret needed to pass by and I heard him say ''Excuse me Mr Royal''

 

I almost fell over -- I couldnt see a player being as respectful to Shez hahaha

 

Earl Barrett was a gentleman of the highest order even in those days...All respect has gone today I'm afraid and is half the problem, there's a lot more to picking a player these days than just natural talent.

 

I bet Shez picked 3/4 of his squad this season without a clue as to the character and attitude they possesed and players should, at the very least, go through some sort of assesment / interview rather than a quick phone call and " OK he'll do a job for us get him signed up"!!!

[IsleOfWightBlue]

That is so right.....

 

Its ok to get mr billy 25 goals a season on board but if hes a nutter or doesent get on with people then hes a wild cannon and a bad influence in the dressing room.

 

If you can interview a player and find out what hes like as a person then you may find its better to go for a player that bangs in only 15 goals a season but is a great influence on his team mates and contributes a lot more .

 

There are so many players that are remember for being great and having inspired their teams. Players who have motivated others to perform at a higher level.

 

 

[LaticsLegend]

I think credit for Trotman should really go to Philiskirk.

 

I think credit for Trotman should go to Neal Trotman.

[TheBigDog]

Although I agree with the majority of your points raised I must disagree on the Hazell thing, Rueben Hazell has been by far one of the most consistent, impressive players we have had all season. He's has been top notch and easily in contention for player of the season.

 

Hazell is one of the 'confidence' players at Latics. When his confidence drops then so does his form.

He was poor at Brighton and screwed up big time for the third goal. I tend to agree with the original post that maybe Sheridan did bring the best out of Reuben - he certainly looks ordinary nowadays.