The big stadium capacity question.

[bpmarko]

it was downscaling on the original plan because of costs, and the change in the economic climate,

 

and it means the club doesnt expect to play big clubs in the very near future, but the fact it can be expanded shows me they do think they will one day

 

by the way good mornin corp!

 

Morning? Really? You're not a student are you? lol

[thelaticsfan]

There are lots of small grounds with better facilities than those of BP. Most of them belong to clubs below us and historically smaller than us.

 

which is why we are building this new stadium!

 

remember were not big anymore, history doesnt make you a big club now!

[Corporal_Jones]

i am happy with the 12000 capacity because even that is ambitious. get the club self sufficient and looking after its self and then if the need ever arises then upgrade the stadium to a higher capacity

 

 

 

There will be no self-sufficient club, because a 12000 capacity represents an acceptance of a third or fourth division existence (nearly all of the stadiums of this size are concentrated in the lower divisions for a reason.) And a permanent third or fourth division existence will bring in less fans than we currently attract. At best, we can hope for stability at the current level through whatever additional facilities the new stadium will have attached to it.

 

There will obviously be no need for expansion either.

[oafc0000]

You lot can keep going around in circles but a few things are coming clear...

 

1/3 want bigger... 2/3 are happy... That still a fair chunk not happy...

 

The good news is it would seem that some of those not happy will be appeased by the stadium being expandable.

 

Still leaving about 1/5 unhappy...

 

Your not going to please everyone with such a move...

 

Make it expandable TTA and you have a deal it would seem....

Edited July 29, 2009 by oafc0000

[Corporal_Jones]

I have been telling you that from the begging while you kept claiming this grantees are future and TTA should be carried upon our shoulders

 

 

 

 

Most of the arguments have centred on capacity, though. And we've already been told that the capacity will be only 12000.

[Corporal_Jones]

You could argue that the little of note on sale (ie on the pitch) is what got us into this mess.

 

 

 

Yes-as I keep saying, the proposal of a little stadium represents a settlement. It's the culmination of a complete failure on the part of successive boards to arrest the club's slide. The aim is clearly stability at lower division level. And it probably won't work even on these terms. The people of Oldham have already shown that, like the people of most other towns, they'll respond when something significant is happening on the pitch but not to constant mediocrity. And permanent lower division existence will set mediocrity in concrete.

 

[Corporal_Jones]

it was downscaling on the original plan because of costs, and the change in the economic climate,

 

and it means the club doesnt expect to play big clubs in the very near future, but the fact it can be expanded shows me they do think they will one day

 

by the way good mornin corp!

 

 

 

It's afternoon.

 

As far as I know, nobody has talked about the possibility of expansion except on here.

 

There are already clubs in this division against whom the club should be aiming to attract 12000 (were it still possible at BP). A promotion clash against Leeds or one of the other 'big clubs' in the division. A play-off semi-final...

[Corporal_Jones]

But Corp, it was only a plan. A plan which quite probably would have resulted in no expansion being possible.

 

 

 

Forget expansion. It won't be necessary.

[Corporal_Jones]

which is why we are building this new stadium!

 

remember were not big anymore, history doesnt make you a big club now!

 

 

 

Inadvertently, you put the reasoning behind this proposal in a nutshell.

 

As I keep saying, it's a settlement for being a permanent lower division club.

 

[wozz_oafc]

Far too many people are mistaking the apathy of the Oldham public towards the club and the clubs ambition.

 

Ambitions of football clubs are not soley based on how many stupid seats they have in their ground. Look up Thames FC the records for biggest league ground and lowest ever attendance I think, or near enough.

 

12,000 is more than enough seats for our club, where are all these extra 10,000 fans going to magic themselves from to fill 16,000??? I would really like to know. Does anyone think even if we get to the Premier League that a monday night match between Oldham and Portsmouth live on sky in the pouring rain is going to be a 16,000 sell out? I would bet large sums of money it wont. Fair play on the odd occaison in the future if we ever happen to play Man City or Man United in a competitive game again some away fans might get locked out, I really dont see why this is such a big issue though.

 

Many factors will show how ambitious we are in the future. Im more interested in what our ground is going to be like, state of the art and modern or tacky and done on the cheap. When we get a new ground how much money are we going to invest in the playing side, are we going to build a team worthy of our new home?Are we going to keep investing in a good youth system? Is the new set up maybe going to make us more appealling to rich backers who can pump some real money into the club? To me when these questions are answered it will give a truer indication of the ambition of the club. Not putting in 4,000 extra shiny seats which get used once in a blue moon.

Edited July 29, 2009 by wozz_oafc

[NIKI1234]

You lot can keep going around in circles but a few things are coming clear...

 

1/3 want bigger... 2/3 are happy... That still a fair chunk not happy...

 

The good news is it would seem that some of those not happy will be appeased by the stadium being expandable.

 

Still leaving about 1/5 unhappy...

 

Your not going to please everyone with such a move...

 

Make it expandable TTA and you have a deal it would seem....

 

These can be replaced by the new supporters we will gain from move

[Corporal_Jones]

Far too many people are mistaking the apathy of the Oldham public towards the club and the clubs ambition.

 

Ambitions of football clubs are not soley based on how many stupid seats they have in their ground. Look up Thames FC the records for biggest league ground and lowest ever attendance I think, or near enough.

 

12,000 is more than enough seats for our club, where are all these extra 10,000 fans going to magic themselves from to fill 16,000??? I would really like to know. Does anyone think even if we get to the Premier League that a monday night match between Oldham and Portsmouth live on sky in the pouring rain is going to be a 16,000 sell out? I would bet large sums of money it wont. Fair play on the odd occaison in the future if we ever happen to play Man City or Man United in a competitive game again some away fans might get locked out, I really dont see why this is such a big issue though.

 

Many factors will show how ambitious we are in the future. Im more interested in what our ground is going to be like, state of the art and modern or tacky and done on the cheap. When we get a new ground how much money are we going to invest in the playing side, are we going to build a team worthy of our new home?Are we going to keep investing in a good youth system? Is the new set up maybe going to make us more appealling to rich backers who can pump some real money into the club? To me when these questions are answered it will give a truer indication of the ambition of the club. Not putting in 4,000 extra shiny seats which get used once in a blue moon.

 

 

 

Nobody's asking for stupid seats. Just where the far from stupid 4000 seats in the BP plan disappeared to overnight.

 

You merely repeat the same already tired excuse that ground capacity should reflect the average gate at the time the stadium plan was drawn up. This ignores the fact that, aside from a tiny number of wildly successful clubs, the only clubs to do this are concentrated at the lower end of the Football League and are destined to stay there. The vast majority of clubs play in stadiums whose capacities are in excess (sometimes far in excess) of their average gates. This has always been the case in English football.

 

Apart from that, as said only a few posts ago, there are lots of small grounds with nifty facilities. They belong to those clubs stuck permanently at the lower end of the Football League. There will be little money to invest in the playing squad (just as at these little clubs) because we will never do anything that warrants the attention of the Oldham public, or anybody else, and will be playing in front of crowds as small as we currently attract, if not smaller.*

 

 

*Note to idiots: this is another prediction.

[LeylandLatic]

These can be replaced by the new supporters we will gain from move

 

 

I very much doubt many if any of those that aren't would stop going over this. People may have reservations liek CJ about ambition etc, but at the end of the day he will still be there and so will the rest of those who aren't happy with the basic proposal of the new stadium.

[oafc0000]

Forget expansion. It won't be necessary.

 

This where you lose me Corporal...

 

It is a downsizing of ambition but its not the end of the world as we know it...

[Corporal_Jones]

Is the new set up maybe going to make us more appealling to rich backers who can pump some real money into the club?

 

 

 

Are there any examples of English clubs with newly built small stadiums, reflecting, many would say, low expectations, who have attracted rich backers? As opposed to clubs with dilapidated grounds whose rich backers took them up the leagues and brought them new stadiums with capacities that reflected big ambitions?

 

Again, this is not some kind of trick question.

 

[Corporal_Jones]

This where you lose me Corporal...

 

It is a downsizing of ambition but its not the end of the world as we know it...

 

 

 

 

As I keep having to say, lip-service may well be paid to expansion, but it won't be necessary because, like most clubs who build small stadiums, the aim is stability at the lower level of professional football. This is not the stuff to attract big attendances, and nor will it involve playing big clubs all that often. Therefore no expansion, not least because the gate revenue will be low and there will be no funds to pay for it.

[wozz_oafc]

Nobody's asking for stupid seats. Just where the far from stupid 4000 seats in the BP plan disappeared to overnight.

 

You merely repeat the same already tired excuse that ground capacity should reflect the average gate at the time the stadium plan was drawn up. This ignores the fact that, aside from a tiny number of wildly successful clubs, the only clubs to do this are concentrated at the lower end of the Football League and are destined to stay there. The vast majority of clubs play in stadiums whose capacities are in excess (sometimes far in excess) of their average gates. This has always been the case in English football.

 

Apart from that, as said only a few posts ago, there are lots of small grounds with nifty facilities. They belong to those clubs stuck permanently at the lower end of the Football League. There will be little money to invest in the playing squad (just as at these little clubs) because we will never do anything that warrants the attention of the Oldham public, or anybody else, and will be playing in front of crowds as small as we currently attract, if not smaller.*

 

 

*Note to idiots: this is another prediction.

 

Surely if I was repeating that tired excuse I would be saying the new ground should be 6-7000? You keep repeating the same tiresome lines about stadium size and ambition.

 

Do you really think if we had 4,000 extra seats your prediction that I have bolded would be any different?

[oafc0000]

As I keep having to say, lip-service may well be paid to expansion, but it won't be necessary because, like most clubs who build small stadiums, the aim is stability at the lower level of professional football. This is not the stuff to attract big attendances, and nor will it involve playing big clubs all that often. Therefore no expansion, not least because the gate revenue will be low and there will be no funds to pay for it.

 

It is the restriction on the funds we can acquire and the cost of expanding that worries me. But I am hopeful that the cost of expanding can be reduced through good stadium design. As for funds, a loan etc wouldn't be out of the question if we was stable. Maybe even investment from a sugar daddy at some point.

 

I am just saying there are no grantees either way.

[LeylandLatic]

Are there any examples of English clubs with newly built small stadiums, reflecting, many would say, low expectations, who have attracted rich backers? As opposed to clubs with dilapidated grounds whose rich backers took them up the leagues and brought them new stadiums with capacities that reflected big ambitions?

 

Again, this is not some kind of trick question.

 

 

If someone comes up with one will you be moving the goalposts again? Should we be carrying out surveys on each group of supporters before deciding whether their new stadium was a statement of low ambition? Very specific criteria (and a little hazy), pretty much an unanswerable question expecially given the outcome of previous, similar posts.

[Lookers_Carl]

As I keep having to say, lip-service may well be paid to expansion, but it won't be necessary because, like most clubs who build small stadiums, the aim is stability at the lower level of professional football. This is not the stuff to attract big attendances, and nor will it involve playing big clubs all that often. Therefore no expansion, not least because the gate revenue will be low and there will be no funds to pay for it.

 

Corp can you back this up with some examples please?

Edited July 29, 2009 by Lookers_Carl

[oafc0000]

Can you back this up with some examples please?

 

Preston at home on a Saturday would surely bring more than 12,000 you would expect ?

 

Its hard to say/guess at isnt it...

 

Would guess these teams would result in higher than 12k

 

• Barnsley
• Cardiff
• Newcastle
• Preston
• Sheff Utd
• Sheff Wed

Edited July 29, 2009 by oafc0000

[LeylandLatic]

As I keep having to say, lip-service may well be paid to expansion, but it won't be necessary because, like most clubs who build small stadiums, the aim is stability at the lower level of professional football. This is not the stuff to attract big attendances, and nor will it involve playing big clubs all that often. Therefore no expansion, not least because the gate revenue will be low and there will be no funds to pay for it.

 

You even admit yourself that not all clubs building stadiums within their means are purely aiming for stagnation. So why is it we are definitely one of those that are?

[wozz_oafc]

Are there any examples of English clubs with newly built small stadiums, reflecting, many would say, low expectations, who have attracted rich backers? As opposed to clubs with dilapidated grounds whose rich backers took them up the leagues and brought them new stadiums with capacities that reflected big ambitions?

 

Again, this is not some kind of trick question.

 

I dont know, mine was more of a hyperthetical question. If I was a rich backer I wouldnt come anywhere near Oldham with my money, a club with a small fan base and a large amount of pessimism and negativity amongst those who do go.

 

 

[Corporal_Jones]

Surely if I was repeating that tired excuse I would be saying the new ground should be 6-7000? You keep repeating the same tiresome lines about stadium size and ambition.

 

Do you really think if we had 4,000 extra seats your prediction that I have bolded would be any different?

 

 

 

I don't know if it would be any different. All I know is that a 12000 capacity stadium reflects an acceptance that we won't be staging many big games on a regular basis ever again, and that this level of ambition is unlikely to attract backers interested in investing in a playing squad capable of taking the club somewhere.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Corporal_Jones

[Lookers_Carl]

Preston at home on a Saturday would surely bring more than 12,000 you would expect ?

 

Its hard to say/guess at isnt it...

 

I would have thought so, but I suppose alot depends on what league we are talking about.

 

Since 1994, all the gates we have had that have been over 10k, PNE have not been the opposing team, although saying that when we met preston it was in this league (alebit they were challenging for promotion so still took up a good part of the RRE).