The big stadium capacity question.

[oafc0000]

I would have thought so, but I suppose alot depends on what league we are talking about.

 

Since 1994, all the gates we have had that have been over 10k, PNE have not been the opposing team, although saying that when we met preston it was in this league (alebit they were challenging for promotion so still took up a good part of the RRE).

 

I would expect us in the Championship in good facilities would result in higher grounds than the last time we was at that level. The game is bigger now...

Edited July 29, 2009 by oafc0000

[Corporal_Jones]

Corp can you back this up with some examples please?

 

 

 

No-I can't be arsed. They're there, though, so you do your own research.

[Corporal_Jones]

If someone comes up with one will you be moving the goalposts again? Should we be carrying out surveys on each group of supporters before deciding whether their new stadium was a statement of low ambition? Very specific criteria (and a little hazy), pretty much an unanswerable question expecially given the outcome of previous, similar posts.

 

 

 

What?

[Corporal_Jones]

You even admit yourself that not all clubs building stadiums within their means are purely aiming for stagnation. So why is it we are definitely one of those that are?

 

 

 

I said that the tiny number wildly successful successful clubs build or redevelop stadiums reflecting their average gates at the time their plans were drawn up. Other clubs build small grounds, presumably on the assumption that they will never need anything more, and usually they remain where they were-at the bottom end of the Football League.

[Lookers_Carl]

No-I can't be arsed. They're there, though, so you do your own research.

 

So you cant then. Thought not

Edited July 29, 2009 by Lookers_Carl

[Corporal_Jones]

I would expect us in the Championship in good facilities would result in higher grounds than the last time we was at that level. The game is bigger now...

 

 

 

We will never be in the Championship again. A 12000 capacity stadium reflects the acceptance of this idea. (Opinion)

 

You have just listed the number of Championship clubs against whom the club should be aiming to attract 12000 or more. So why the 12000 limit? It doesn't make sense, as even if we were, by some miracle, to gain promotion, an ambitious club would be aiming for gates like that against such clubs immediately, if only to help ensure survival at that level.

[Corporal_Jones]

So you cant then. Thought not

 

 

 

Not can't. Just don't want to. Your pedantry bored me yesterday.

 

Everybody knows there are a number of lower division clubs with nice, new facilities.

[Lookers_Carl]

I would expect us in the Championship in good facilities would result in higher grounds than the last time we was at that level. The game is bigger now...

 

I would expect the sides you quoted to bring a good away following, but in the games with the big gates, latics have allocated away fans all the RRE which is over a third of the capacity at BP (whats the capacity of RRE, about 4500?)

 

Would the away fans be allocated the same amount at the new stadium? If I had to guess, I would have thought the stands would be very similar capacity, either an even spread of approx 3k each, or maybe a main stand of 4k, other side stand of 3k and behind goals 2.5k each

 

The point is would we be able to allocate the away fans with 4500 seats like now?

Edited July 29, 2009 by Lookers_Carl

[oafc0000]

We will never be in the Championship again. A 12000 capacity stadium reflects the acceptance of this idea. (Opinion)

 

You have just listed the number of Championship clubs against whom the club should be aiming to attract 12000 or more. So why the 12000 limit? It doesn't make sense, as even if we were, by some miracle, to gain promotion, an ambitious club would be aiming for gates like that against such clubs immediately, if only to help ensure survival at that level.

 

Like I said I agree to the most part.

 

But its is only opinion when you say we will never be in the Championship again. The capacity of a stadium dosent automatically lock you out of anything (unless we are talking about conference teams(. It just makes it more difficult to go where you want to go, hence my annoyance at just 12,000.

[oafc0000]

I would expect the sides you quoted to bring a good away following, but in the games with the big gates, latics have allocated away fans all the RRE which is over a third of the capacity at BP (whats the capacity of RRE, about 4500?)

 

Would the away fans be allocated the same amount at the new stadium? If I had to guess, I would have thought the stands would be very similar capacity, either an even spread of approx 3k each, or maybe a main stand of 4k, other side stand of 3k and behind goals 2.5k each

 

The point is would we be able to allocate the away fans with 4500 seats like now?

 

I would imagine they would get 3k with the stadium having four 3k stands.... if it was a 12,000 stadium. Again limiting us...

 

You could give them half another stand but then you get issues with season ticket holders and segregation...

Edited July 29, 2009 by oafc0000

[Lookers_Carl]

Not can't. Just don't want to. Your pedantry bored me yesterday.

 

Everybody knows there are a number of lower division clubs with nice, new facilities.

 

And.....your point is?

 

I simply asked if you could back your argument up, your argument to quote you directly that clubs who build small stadiums, the aim is stability at the lower level of professional football so I could take your argument a bit more seriously

 

You quite blatantly cant

 

Hence it can be treated as no more than subjective opinion.

 

My pedantry may have bored you, but it added plenty of substance to my arguments corp as I could back up what I was saying, and also proved many of your arguments wrong despite your best attempts to move the goalposts.

 

This is the last post of yours in which I will reply to as it is quite obvious your just arguing for arguments sake.

[BlueJazzer]

Are there any examples of English clubs with newly built small stadiums, reflecting, many would say, low expectations, who have attracted rich backers? As opposed to clubs with dilapidated grounds whose rich backers took them up the leagues and brought them new stadiums with capacities that reflected big ambitions?

 

Notts County?

 

We will never be in the Championship again.

 

Fancy a wager?

[BlueJazzer]

ANd i know before u chirp up, Notts County has 20k capacity but its still not exactly large compared with some of the grounds out there.......

[Lookers_Carl]

I would imagine they would get 3k with the stadium having four 3k stands.... if it was a 12,000 stadium. Again limiting us...

 

You could give them half another stand but then you get issues with season ticket holders and segregation...

 

As you said earlier though if any potential stadium design was designed allowed for the stadium to be expanded at minimal cost and with minimal disruption, then it should not be too much of a problem when needed,

 

Hence a question I would ask is that if the stadium is going to be designed with expansion in mind, how much would the club estimate it would cost to upgrade the capacity and add another 4000 seats.

 

If we took the approach MK Dons have I would imagine the cost would be minimal.

 

 

[oafc0000]

Hence a question I would ask is that if the stadium is going to be designed with expansion in mind, how much would the club estimate it would cost to upgrade the capacity and add another 4000 seats.

 

I doubt you would go from 12,000 to 16,000 though would you... Well you might but I would imagine you would have to be selling out every league game...

 

We are building 12k for the Championship... We want to be in the Championship before the Stadium is finished I would hope...

 

Only a rise to the Prem would realistically result in expansion I think..

Edited July 29, 2009 by oafc0000

[Lookers_Carl]

I doubt you would go from 12,000 to 16,000 though would you... Well you might but I would imagine you would have to be selling out every league game...

 

We are building 12k for the Championship... We want to be in the Championship before the Stadium is finished I would hope...

 

Only a rise to the Prem would realistically result in expansion I think..

 

Again I would say it depends

 

If we did what MK dons did and it is just a case of adding seats in (with the structure already in place), that could be done in a matter of weeks

 

If it was a case of filling in the corners in or adding a tier, then would agree we would have to be selling out week in week out before any expansion was considered.

 

Besides, I believe the official statement said the ground was 'around' 12k, lets just hope once the plans are out its the good side of 12k

[oafc0000]

Again I would say it depends

 

Sure does....

 

I am personally in favour of a MK dons approach...

 

[oafc0000]

I doubt you would go from 12,000 to 16,000 though would you... Well you might but I would imagine you would have to be selling out every league game...

 

We are building 12k for the Championship... We want to be in the Championship before the Stadium is finished I would hope...

 

Only a rise to the Prem would realistically result in expansion I think..

 

Moving on from my point...

 

Last time we went in the Prem we was downsizing... Next time we are going to have to upsize... Weird how things work out...

[leeslover]

Only a rise to the Prem would realistically result in expansion I think..

You may well be right there - doesn't that explain why 12,000 seems like enough for the third division and hopfully the Championship? Building a ground specifically for the Premiership is IMO fairly out there at this time and place. If it's not worth building these 4,000 seats when we are actually in the Championship then why is it worth building them now?

[oafc0000]

You may well be right there - doesn't that explain why 12,000 seems like enough for the third division and hopfully the Championship? Building a ground specifically for the Premiership is IMO fairly out there at this time and place. If it's not worth building these 4,000 seats when we are actually in the Championship then why is it worth building them now?

 

Well it depends on how many games could potentially attract more than 12,000 in the Championship... I reckon at least five games would. If we was making a run on the premier potentially more....

 

It also depends on what's cheaper... 12k to 25k or 16k to 25k.

 

Tons of factors isnt there...

 

I would be happy with 12k as long as it design is sound for cheap expansion...

Edited July 29, 2009 by oafc0000

[creepy]

This is the way we should be going, although 22000 is too big for our first tier, it should be 16000, then build the second tier if and when we are an established champ team.

 

franchise or not they are showing everyone the way forward

 

http://www.mkdons.com/page/Virtualtours/0,,10420,00.html

[footy68]

Not really....They have half the stadium empty and unused. They can't just throw seats in it willy nilly, even that would take time. The biggest problem with their ground is they have to maintain a section of the ground which is never used, therefor wasting money.

[wozz_oafc]

MK Dons stadium looks half finished, that wouldnt be nice to play in at all.

[Markoasis]

MK Dons stadium looks half finished, that wouldnt be nice to play in at all.

 

Not sure really ... it's only the upper level thats not done and the completed levels (lower) would be at eye level!

[BlueJazzer]

I dont think mk dons looks bad at all. If we ended up with a ground like that i would be more than happy. As long as they didnt run out of pies before half time even started......