The big stadium capacity question.

[Corporal_Jones]

I can tell you with authority big clubs often miss out on talent from the lower leagues.

Fitz Hall (where were the big clubs scouting systems when he was in langusihing in non league) is among a multitude of others.

To an aspiring young player in Div 2 or in non league Latics could be seen as a good stepping stone.

 

 

 

Is being a stepping stone for ambitious players to be the summit of the club's aspirations?

[Corporal_Jones]

FAO Corp! Out of Interest will you be attending the open evening to discuss your views with those that matter?

 

 

 

No.

[De_La_Vega]

This all seems to be getting a little political, geographical and downright economical...

 

The answer surely has to be a 12k stadium and room for expansion which could be done in loads of ways - leaving the corners open, provision for further tiers, only fully finishing 2-sides of the ground etc.

 

I don't see what the big deal is. The club wants to be self-sufficient rather than run off outside money, so there is no way that the club would cap the size at 12k for ever ad infinitum - it would be the most stupid move since Crewe signed Calvin Zola... A ground that size now though could nearly be filled now which surely we all appreciate would vastly improve the atmosphere rather than having huge swathes empty.

 

Bottom-line is that this move is about so much more than the size of the stadium, and it is bollocks to refer to this as some kind of defining, "chance for greatness" moment in the club's life. The biggest tool for making the club successful should be the youth academy which is currently producing large numbers of our squad, including our best players from last year (based on the league team of the year). If we can get a ground of either size that is cheap to run, provides increased gates and is backed by local development that adds extra income streams for the club then we are onto a winner.

 

I am far more concerned by what the finished ground will be like, and the full development plans. Give me a 12k seater which looks brilliant, is set in a complex that is attractive, impressive and makes the club money, reduce the ticket prices to encourage a new generation of fans and establish first-rate facilities for the youth teams - that I would be delighted with.

 

Give me a 16k seater that has no soul, expensive pies and some flat-pack modular buildings thrown up around crappy astro pitches in some shoddy development on the outskirts of Manchester - I would not be happy.

 

But that said I appreciate all the arguments for and against; I don't fancy the chances of those who want 16k though.

[Lookers_Carl]

This all seems to be getting a little political, geographical and downright economical...

 

The answer surely has to be a 12k stadium and room for expansion which could be done in loads of ways - leaving the corners open, provision for further tiers, only fully finishing 2-sides of the ground etc.

 

I don't see what the big deal is. The club wants to be self-sufficient rather than run off outside money, so there is no way that the club would cap the size at 12k for ever ad infinitum - it would be the most stupid move since Crewe signed Calvin Zola... A ground that size now though could nearly be filled now which surely we all appreciate would vastly improve the atmosphere rather than having huge swathes empty.

 

Bottom-line is that this move is about so much more than the size of the stadium, and it is bollocks to refer to this as some kind of defining, "chance for greatness" moment in the club's life. The biggest tool for making the club successful should be the youth academy which is currently producing large numbers of our squad, including our best players from last year (based on the league team of the year). If we can get a ground of either size that is cheap to run, provides increased gates and is backed by local development that adds extra income streams for the club then we are onto a winner.

 

I am far more concerned by what the finished ground will be like, and the full development plans. Give me a 12k seater which looks brilliant, is set in a complex that is attractive, impressive and makes the club money, reduce the ticket prices to encourage a new generation of fans and establish first-rate facilities for the youth teams - that I would be delighted with.

 

Give me a 16k seater that has no soul, expensive pies and some flat-pack modular buildings thrown up around crappy astro pitches in some shoddy development on the outskirts of Manchester - I would not be happy.

 

But that said I appreciate all the arguments for and against; I don't fancy the chances of those who want 16k though.

 

Well those who do want 16k now have the perfect opportunity to ask the powers that be why they decided to downscale the capacity with this forum

[NIKI1234]

No.

 

Why not? You could get an official answer to your questions?

[Corporal_Jones]

This all seems to be getting a little political, geographical and downright economical...

 

The answer surely has to be a 12k stadium and room for expansion which could be done in loads of ways - leaving the corners open, provision for further tiers, only fully finishing 2-sides of the ground etc.

 

I don't see what the big deal is. The club wants to be self-sufficient rather than run off outside money, so there is no way that the club would cap the size at 12k for ever ad infinitum - it would be the most stupid move since Crewe signed Calvin Zola... A ground that size now though could nearly be filled now which surely we all appreciate would vastly improve the atmosphere rather than having huge swathes empty.

 

Bottom-line is that this move is about so much more than the size of the stadium, and it is bollocks to refer to this as some kind of defining, "chance for greatness" moment in the club's life. The biggest tool for making the club successful should be the youth academy which is currently producing large numbers of our squad, including our best players from last year (based on the league team of the year). If we can get a ground of either size that is cheap to run, provides increased gates and is backed by local development that adds extra income streams for the club then we are onto a winner.

 

I am far more concerned by what the finished ground will be like, and the full development plans. Give me a 12k seater which looks brilliant, is set in a complex that is attractive, impressive and makes the club money, reduce the ticket prices to encourage a new generation of fans and establish first-rate facilities for the youth teams - that I would be delighted with.

 

Give me a 16k seater that has no soul, expensive pies and some flat-pack modular buildings thrown up around crappy astro pitches in some shoddy development on the outskirts of Manchester - I would not be happy.

 

But that said I appreciate all the arguments for and against; I don't fancy the chances of those who want 16k though.

 

 

 

 

I don't fancy the chances of 16000 either, any more than I fancy the chances of expansion ever actually taking place, even though lip-service to it might be paid.

 

As if it's necessary to mention it again, the reason why a 12000 seater stadium is being proposed in the first place is because the club doesn't aspire to play in front of more than that ever again (or no longer believes it to be a realistic possibility.) People who talk about expansion are fooling themselves.

[Corporal_Jones]

Why not? You could get an official answer to your questions?

 

 

 

 

We'll all get the 'official answers' if and when the club announces something more concrete, won't we?

 

It isn't a meeting to decide on whether to build a 16000 seater or a 12000 seater, you know. At best, you'll get the PR version of the reasoning why 12000 has been decided on.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Corporal_Jones

[NIKI1234]

We'll all get the 'official answers' if and when the club announces something more concrete, won't I?

 

It isn't a meeting to decide on whether to build a 16000 seater or a 12000 seater, you know. At best, you'll get the PR version of the reasoning why 12000 has been decided on.

 

 

You could of asked why the stadium capacity plans have been reduced from 16K to 12K which you keep banging on about.

 

You could have asked why we are now happy to settle on "little club" status with the likes of Rochdale and Stockport?

 

Not all your concerns would neccessaly be covered if you dont ask, you might not like the answers and its not going to change the plans that are already in place but at least you would maybe find out some answers to your Q's?

[Corporal_Jones]

You could of asked why the stadium capacity plans have been reduced from 16K to 12K which you keep banging on about.

 

You could have asked why we are now happy to settle on "little club" status with the likes of Rochdale and Stockport?

 

Not all your concerns would neccessaly be covered if you dont ask, you might not like the answers and its not going to change the plans that are already in place but at least you would maybe find out some answers to your Q's?

 

 

 

 

I think I know what the answers are already. The rest is up to old Father Time.

[BP1960]

Is being a stepping stone for ambitious players to be the summit of the club's aspirations?

 

What should be the clubs aspirations in your view, haven't they always been a selling club, you don't expect even with a more ambitious 16,000 stadium that will change do you ?

[Corporal_Jones]

What should be the clubs aspirations in your view, haven't they always been a selling club, you don't expect even with a more ambitious 16,000 stadium that will change do you ?

 

 

 

How about...(deep intake of breath)...aspiring to be...not a selling club! Or, failing that, less of a selling club?

[manshaw]

I think I know what the answers are already. The rest is up to old Father Time.

When the going gets tough, -------------------. HIDE

[Corporal_Jones]

When the going gets tough, -------------------. HIDE

 

 

 

As opposed to what? Showboating? Grandstanding?

 

What's there to hide from? Nobody is going to make anybody alter what's already been decided on a matter as large as this.

[NIKI1234]

I think I know what the answers are already. The rest is up to old Father Time.

 

God you know everything

[Corporal_Jones]

God you know everything

 

 

 

 

Almost, not quite.

 

It isn't difficult to have a fairly confident view about where the club is heading based on observation of the events of recent years.

[BP1960]

How about...(deep intake of breath)...aspiring to be...not a selling club! Or, failing that, less of a selling club?

 

You're mellowing

[leeslover]

No. The ground held around 20,000 at the time, if I remember correctly, so they weren't needed. However, we had more than doubled our average gate from what we were getting a short time earlier, to almost 13000, and in the following season managed to average even more (around 15000?) Plus, didn't we have a number of 18-19000 crowds in both league and, especially, in the cup runs?

 

With a 12000 capacity stadium has the club decided that this can never be done again?

Thank you. HAving more seats than there were people to sit on them back then would have achieved nothing. Same applies now. Talk of "ambition" is meaningless in this context. And with that' I'm out.

[Bertie_Dugger]

As opposed to what? Showboating? Grandstanding?

 

What's there to hide from? Nobody is going to make anybody alter what's already been decided on a matter as large as this.

 

 

Congratulations, you've arrived at this conclusion after 35 pages of boring for England.

[manshaw]

As opposed to what? Showboating? Grandstanding?

 

What's there to hide from? Nobody is going to make anybody alter what's already been decided on a matter as large as this.

So you are not going to the meeting then?you have a lot to say, usually the same old, every thread. Thought you could get it out into the open once and for all.

[Corporal_Jones]

Congratulations, you've arrived at this conclusion after 35 pages of boring for England.

 

 

 

 

You don't have to read anything you don't like, Bertie baby. Run along.

 

You may have noticed that there's at leat four or five people arguing against me at any one time, aometimes more (as is their right), often making points I've laready answered. Is it any wonder, then, that I have to repeat myself (as if all other posters don't repeat themselves in one way or another. Does Bertie have anything to say, for instance, other than a variation on, 'I don't like CJ. Boo hoo?')

[NIKI1234]

Almost, not quite.

 

It isn't difficult to have a fairly confident view about where the club is heading based on observation of the events of recent years.

 

But its your view or no view at all. You have the perfect chance to vent your opionion and get direct answers from the clubs owners on the questions/opinions you keep raising.

 

Then again I guess it would be quite difficult shifting the goal posts to suit your argument when you are face to face with the main man

[Corporal_Jones]

So you are not going to the meeting then?you have a lot to say, usually the same old, every thread. Thought you could get it out into the open once and for all.

 

 

 

 

It's out in the open on here.

[Corporal_Jones]

But its your view or no view at all. You have the perfect chance to vent your opionion and get direct answers from the clubs owners on the questions/opinions you keep raising.

 

Then again I guess it would be quite difficult shifting the goal posts to suit your argument when you are face to face with the main man

 

 

 

Stop scaring me with the main man, NIKI. (Look how the typing's gone all shaky.)

 

As I've already said, only a few minutes ago, 'the answers' are going to come, one way or another, meeting or no meeting.

 

 

[Corporal_Jones]

Thank you. HAving more seats than there were people to sit on them back then would have achieved nothing. Same applies now. Talk of "ambition" is meaningless in this context. And with that' I'm out.

 

 

 

 

Like certain others, you keep saying 'I'm out' and then coming back.

 

Didn't you read what I said? No extra seats were needed back then because the ground was considerably bigger than it is now. Would 12000 have been enough capacity in 1990-91 or in the next three seasons? No. It wouldn't even have been enough in 1973-74 or 1970-71.

[NIKI1234]

Stop scaring me with the main man, NIKI. (Look how the typing's gone all shaky.)

 

As I've already said, only a few minutes ago, 'the answers' are going to come, one way or another, meeting or no meeting.

 

Scary