Senor_Coconut Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 That Senor is utter and total Bollocks. We might lose a few if Ashton but gain more in the long run, its new support we need. As for Shaw get real man, more latics support in Shaw, Royton and High Crompton than Failsworth will ever offer. Yeah, but you'll lose those in Chadderton won't won't be so inclined to travel up to Shaw every other weekend, transport links are terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haribo_man Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 ongoing decline over the last decade and a half??? Why aren't we playing in the Ashton Sunday League then corp. Surely we have remained at a constant. or arguably improved over the times when we were in the 4th tier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 That Senor is utter and total Bollocks. We might lose a few if Ashton but gain more in the long run, its new support we need. As for Shaw get real man, more latics support in Shaw, Royton and High Crompton than Failsworth will ever offer. The only problem with the Ashton argument is that the Ashton supporters already support someone else, and we don't know if they will change their allegience to Oldham. It would be very intersting to know the mix from the season ticket holders, what [ercentage are from where. It has to be assumed that TTA know thhis, and it forms part of their plans. I am sure I did a poll of where everybody lived, and we could see what part live where. I might look at this again, maybe by post code this time. but the fact remains 80% say the move makes no difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 (edited) That Senor is utter and total Bollocks. We might lose a few if Ashton but gain more in the long run, its new support we need. As for Shaw get real man, more latics support in Shaw, Royton and High Crompton than Failsworth will ever offer. That last sentence is so very true, and that very point shows why a shaw stadium would NOT attract more fans. They already come. If we really need to move the stadium 1/2 miles towards shaw to get those that don't come to attend, then really, we shouldn't bother. I've only spoken to a couple of people in f/w about the move; one, an ardent red who had a season ticket for years until they pulled the cup tickets trick, and is also an ardent failsworthian, thinks it's a fantastic move, "the best thing the council have ever done for failsworth". The other, a very occasional supporter thinks it's a great move too. I'd bet there's a lot of kids who "support" manure but can never afford and can never get tickets for the swamp - I wonder how many would fancy 23 games for £50? Edited August 20, 2009 by real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I remain dead against the proposals. I accept we need to do something but believe this just isn't right for us. In fact I consider this proposal to be farcical and am devastated that it is seemingly being embraced by many. If it's the best TTA can provide then fair enough, but if that's the case I want to see us seek alternative/additional investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz_oldham Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I remain dead against the proposals. Who gives a flying **** if it borders Moston, Failsworth, Huddersfield, Rochdale or Ashton - it's still fairly easy to get to and it's the most viable option. At least the club gets to grow. if that's the case I want to see us seek alternative/additional investment Where has the "us" come from - is that an offer to help them find the investment? (I say this cynically but...) At the end of the day we're football fans... and in todays age that just means we're just really passionate customers of a brand. Don't hold the "business" back with negativity - as this isn't the end of the world - look at what happened with MK Dons that was an extreme move... five miles down the road is negligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 No additional investment was forthcoming a few years ago Why do we think that its any different now? Peter Risdale's comments anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz_oldham Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Peter Risdale's comments anybody? Maybe TTA thought "brilliant, develop the land and make a massive profit quickly" and now they're thinking "christ on a bike, get something sorted, make a small profit and bail out" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Maybe but I hope not as there don't seem to be many suitors trying to invest? However would a new stadium and training help entice better players? Even if it is in Failsworth, bearing in mind the only way that the tta can raise the money for development is to sell BP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 One simple reason for the move and the extra funding it will create is that the plan to re-develop BP included using about 2/3rds of the land for housing, whilst keeping 1/3rd as a football ground. A housing development next to a football ground is less attractive/less valuable than one not next to a football ground, and given access from the royton broadway side, would be seen as a reasonable place to live being bufferred from any less desireable areas by the hospital. By removing the football ground and releasing another 50% of the plot, the value will probably double. The land at failsworth is probably worth far less so swapping for a bigger plot at lower cost is a good move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 ongoing decline over the last decade and a half??? Why aren't we playing in the Ashton Sunday League then corp. Surely we have remained at a constant. or arguably improved over the times when we were in the 4th tier? We haven't remained 'at a constant', as the longer you stay in a division, the more difficult it is to get out of it, as the growing disillusion at all levels of the club is proving, however hard the club tries to disguise it. Not to mention the growing alienation of many fans from a club that appears to have no sense of direction. Carrying on fooling yourself if you want, though. Or, alternatively, ask yourself where the club is, as we contemplate a proposed move into a stadium with a capacity that suggests the club isn't contemplating that many games against big clubs again, a stadium that might well, in fact, never get built, leaving us God knows where. Ask yourself where the club is, as we flounder around, with falling attendances and low season ticket sales, with another team of average third division players, relying heavily on largely unproven kids, loanees and end of career players, with no apparent real belief that we can, or even should be trying, to get out of the division. And then compare it to where we were fifteen years ago when we'd just been relegated from the Premier League and the football world still took the club seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haribo_man Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 so, if we get relegated and then come up again what would that mean corp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Who gives a flying **** if it borders Moston, Failsworth, Huddersfield, Rochdale or Ashton - it's still fairly easy to get to and it's the most viable option. At least the club gets to grow. Does it? How is proposing to build a stadium with a small capacity than attendances we still managed, on occasion, to get even during the last disastrous fifteen years 'growing the club' exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Don't hold the "business" back with negativity - as this isn't the end of the world - look at what happened with MK Dons that was an extreme move... five miles down the road is negligible. To ask obvious questions instead of rushing like gullible children to grab the lollies offered to us by the nice grown ups is neither 'negativity' nor holding anything back. Do you think the club owners are saying, 'Oh look-some people on OWTB are critical of the stadium proposal; better drop it then?' If it suits them, they'll have it built; if not, they won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 We haven't remained 'at a constant', as the longer you stay in a division, the more difficult it is to get out of it, as the growing disillusion at all levels of the club is proving, however hard the club tries to disguise it. Not to mention the growing alienation of many fans from a club that appears to have no sense of direction. Carrying on fooling yourself if you want, though. Or, alternatively, ask yourself where the club is, as we contemplate a proposed move into a stadium with a capacity that suggests the club isn't contemplating that many games against big clubs again, a stadium that might well, in fact, never get built, leaving us God knows where. Ask yourself where the club is, as we flounder around, with falling attendances and low season ticket sales, with another team of average third division players, relying heavily on largely unproven kids, loanees and end of career players, with no apparent real belief that we can, or even should be trying, to get out of the division. And then compare it to where we were fifteen years ago when we'd just been relegated from the Premier League and the football world still took the club seriously. What are you doing on Saturday night after the game Corp? I only ask as i'm having a dinner party and i need the mood killing every time someone starts a conversation...... PM me if you're available; you seem perfect for the role Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 However would a new stadium and training help entice better players? Even if it is in Failsworth, bearing in mind the only way that the tta can raise the money for development is to sell BP If the aim is, as the small stadium capacity suggests, to have a well-run lower division club, we'll only attract lower divison players. And then what happens? We remain (a roll on the drums seems appropriate here)....a lower division club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 (edited) We haven't remained 'at a constant', as the longer you stay in a division, the more difficult it is to get out of it. Utter rubbish. It's no more difficult to get after 10 years than after 5. Much of it depends on the other clubs in the division and their spending power relative to your own club, and much of it depends on your own squad development. None of it depends on how long you've been in a division. Edited August 20, 2009 by real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 What are you doing on Saturday night after the game Corp? I only ask as i'm having a dinner party and i need the mood killing every time someone starts a conversation...... PM me if you're available; you seem perfect for the role And here we have it. Asking the obvious questions instead of believing everything we're told like so many little children is 'mood killing.' Christ knows what some of you are gonna be like when the sh-t really hits the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Utter rubbish. It's no more difficult to get after 5 years than after 10 than after 1. Much of it depends on the other clubs in the division and their spending power relative to your own club, and much of it depends on your own squad development. None of it depends on how long you've been in a division. Have it your way. But the way it's looking to me, this club seems to be having a very hard time getting out of the division. So hard that it's becoming ever clearer that it has no longer any genuine intentions of doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haribo_man Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Have it your way. But the way it's looking to me, this club seems to be having a very hard time getting out of the division. So hard that it's becoming ever clearer that it has no longer any genuine intentions of doing so. why is that? would you care to elaborate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Does it? How is proposing to build a stadium with a small capacity than attendances we still managed, on occasion, to get even during the last disastrous fifteen years 'growing the club' exactly? New modern facilities for staff and fans alike? Supposed extra revenue streams? Better transport links? Surely even you can see that a new stadium has its benefits. I forget though football all depends on capacity doesnt it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 so, if we get relegated and then come up again what would that mean corp? We won't come back up if we get relegated. At least not now that the game has left us behind. The last fifteen years prove that whenever it happens the club cuts its cloth accordingly and adjusts to life at the lower level. Further decline sets in, followed by another relegation or some near misses (just to break the monotony we get some false dawns as well, before normal service is eventually resumed.) There is no reason to think it will be any different if (when?) we get relegated to the fourth division. Mark my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Who gives a flying **** if it borders Moston, Failsworth, Huddersfield, Rochdale or Ashton - it's still fairly easy to get to and it's the most viable option. At least the club gets to grow. Where has the "us" come from - is that an offer to help them find the investment? (I say this cynically but...) At the end of the day we're football fans... and in todays age that just means we're just really passionate customers of a brand. Don't hold the "business" back with negativity - as this isn't the end of the world - look at what happened with MK Dons that was an extreme move... five miles down the road is negligible. It's more than just the location which bothers me, although that is a massive part of it (and not only the geographical aspect). 'Us' is a commonly used term for the club which one supports, smart arse. I know that we (as in me, you and all our other fans, for clarity) are just passionate customers, that has always been the case and went without saying. It's this passion which makes me so bothered about the :censored:ty proposals..........I think they will ultimately hold the 'business' back. I think TTA have panicked and put all their eggs in one broken basket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haribo_man Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 We won't come back up if we get relegated. At least not now that the game has left us behind. The last fifteen years prove that whenever it happens the club cuts its cloth accordingly and adjusts to life at the lower level. Further decline sets in, followed by another relegation or some near misses (just to break the monotony we get some false dawns as well, before normal service is eventually resumed.) There is no reason to think it will be any different if (when?) we get relegated to the fourth division. Mark my words. Some crystal ball that you have their. So you know for a FACT that this is what would happen? I presume that any false dawns which you refer to may be top half/play off spot finishes. Would that be an error on the clubs part by perhaps being a little bit too successful which they do not want to happen as they would much prefer a stagnant, oops sorry a declining lower league football club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 One simple reason for the move and the extra funding it will create is that the plan to re-develop BP included using about 2/3rds of the land for housing, whilst keeping 1/3rd as a football ground. A housing development next to a football ground is less attractive/less valuable than one not next to a football ground, and given access from the royton broadway side, would be seen as a reasonable place to live being bufferred from any less desireable areas by the hospital. By removing the football ground and releasing another 50% of the plot, the value will probably double. The land at failsworth is probably worth far less so swapping for a bigger plot at lower cost is a good move. I agree with most of your points here though am not sure about the doubling in value of the land mainly due to a good percentage of it being turned towards social/key worker housing will impact profitability for the developer. My point was (though I don't think that this was necessarily a response to it) was that a better stadium and facilities, might help us attract better players as the club would be viewed as being forward thinking. actions speak louder than words here so having a site under construction will also help. The environment for the players to work in day in day out would also be better again making playing for Latics a preferred option for strong players and management playing targets. Hopefully better players would mean better results on the pitch, hopefully meaning renewed interest from the surrounding areas in the club meaning a higher average attendence leading to more money in the kitty for better players, investment and ground expansion(once we have say an av attendence of 8-10,000+). This is surely a plan for the club to grow and prosper at a manageable level. I understand that there are a number of variable factors at play including the management, the football we can play and the players we can afford. At least if we are bidding on targets that we can afford, then we perhaps have a chance of attracting our first choice on superior facilities etc rather than a crumbling shell of a ground from a different era. I would love nothing more btw than to see the ground redeveloped or a new one built on the car park but finances dictate that this is unlikely to happen in the mid-long term(3-5 years) unless we can attract new money. Trouble is as I mentioned in an earlier post I don't see a queue of investors at the ready and in the current climate wouldn't want to be waiting for one to turn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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